If You're not going to college for STEM, You should go to trade school

Pick one

  • Agree

    Votes: 17 47.2%
  • Disagree

    Votes: 19 52.8%
  • 6 Certs, 6 Figs, no degree necessary, no on-the-job injuries

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    36

WIA20XX

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I'm not sure if you have children or not, but do you expect some magical entity to teach their impressionable children, or are we going to pretend that the WFH wave is still a thing and someone can homeschool their children in the household while also dealing with their anal-retentive co-workers.

I already spoke on this above.

Because of the switch to whole language, the prevalence of screens, litigious parents, chaotic classrooms, etc - Dumb kids are finishing high school without the ability to read and do 8th grade mathematics. It costs schools money to fail kids, so it makes more sense to use "social promotion".

These kids do not do well at 4 year schools.
They don't do well at 2 year schools.

If high school grads with poor academic skills somehow end up in trade school - they will quickly realize how important all that math was.

Most won't figure out how important it was to understand how to parse difficult text like Jane Eyre and sign any piece of paper in front of them.

This is happening to Black, White, Latino, and everyone else.

To further the point, lotta kids that go to all white rich suburban schools CAN'T READ. Covid ain't got nothing to do with it.

Once those kids get to 18, society says they are on their own. I wish them well.

If you want to talk about the American school system in general, not specifically about what to major in college - please start your own post, I'll participate.

But this post is not about the mass/the average, and I won't let y'all derail it.

This post is about the smart kids, the nerds.


Smart kids in high school or the early years in college often pick majors with poor economic prospects. Plentiful jobs with low salaries and no realistic options to make a decent - or high salaries and very few jobs.

Lotta folks saying "elite institution", "well I made it..", "my friends made it", "gotta go in with a plan", "gotta network", "they studied X for 4 years and got a job in Y..." - lots and lots of COPE. (Like how do folks go to a 4 year school and not learn to meet an argument full on, instead of focusing on tangents? That's English 101)

I'm making the point, that these kids should not even entertain a lot of these very popular and well regarded majors, because the #'s are truly against them.

Pick something that has a better chance to make money.
 

Professor Emeritus

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The fact that he didn't even include "become a teacher" as a legitimate reason to go to college is wild.

There are MASSIVE teaching shortages across the country right now, especially in Black neighborhoods, and Black teachers are severely underrepresented in schools. We need way, way more competent people going to college to become teachers than we currently have.

And you can major in literally anything in undergrad and become a teacher, you just have to be able to pass the subject-matter tests for your credential and you'll be fine.


I got this notification on this post.

Wu77K57.jpeg





Mental illness is a real problem in our college-hating population. :picard:
 

Professor Emeritus

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Because of the switch to whole language, the prevalence of screens, litigious parents, chaotic classrooms, etc - Dumb kids are finishing high school without the ability to read and do 8th grade mathematics. It costs schools money to fail kids, so it makes more sense to use "social promotion".

The issue with that theory is that kids have been finishing high school "without the ability to read and do 8th grade mathematics" for decades. I don't agree with any program that focuses on "whole language" alone, but a lot of the phonics-alone programs in inner city schools are fukking horrible too.

I do agree that the prevalence of screens appears to correlate with a small but significant drop in performance.




These kids do not do well at 4 year schools.
They don't do well at 2 year schools.

If high school grads with poor academic skills somehow end up in trade school - they will quickly realize how important all that math was.

Most won't figure out how important it was to understand how to parse difficult text like Jane Eyre and sign any piece of paper in front of them.

This is happening to Black, White, Latino, and everyone else.

Don't see how that helps your OP's central idea. If kids are lagging badly in basic skills, then going to college gives them a last chance to develop those skills. If they don't go to college, where the fukk are they ever going to develop them?




To further the point, lotta kids that go to all white rich suburban schools CAN'T READ. Covid ain't got nothing to do with it.

"Lotta" kids is how many? You keep pushing these anecdotes without actual numbers that would back your claims.




Smart kids in high school or the early years in college often pick majors with poor economic prospects. Plentiful jobs with low salaries and no realistic options to make a decent - or high salaries and very few jobs.

Lotta folks saying "elite institution", "well I made it..", "my friends made it", "gotta go in with a plan", "gotta network", "they studied X for 4 years and got a job in Y..." - lots and lots of COPE. (Like how do folks go to a 4 year school and not learn to meet an argument full on, instead of focusing on tangents? That's English 101)

I'm making the point, that these kids should not even entertain a lot of these very popular and well regarded majors, because the #'s are truly against them.

Pick something that has a better chance to make money.

I've asked you 3 times now to support your argument directly, and you still haven't done it.

Post the majors that you think people shouldn't get, then most the % of people in that major who actually DON'T get a job after college or who DON'T get a job above some specific decent level of pay.

Because you keep throwing shots about your supposed logical reasoning, yet you're making scattershot arguments with anecdotes and irrelevant #'s rather than posting a single data point that supports your actual thesis.

You claim people in certain majors can't get work after college. Okay, tell us EXACTLY how may aren't getting work, or aren't getting work at a high enough pay level. I haven't seen you do that once.
 

NobodyReally

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I hate seeing people go to college without substantial scholarships taking non STEM degrees. It’s absurd

But then again, most countries pay for college up to bachelor’s.

Of course we’d find a way to fukk it up here :scust:
Meanwhile I just got all my student loans forgiven for working in the nonprofit sector with my non STEM degree :blessed:
 
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I am convinced that networking and getting good internships are more valuable than a degree for 90% or more of the students.
 

Ridge Forrester

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I have a non-STEM degree but work in a STEM field and make STEM money. Over the years, I gained a number of varied skills and leveraged them into what I'm doing now.
 

R.B.J1

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State jobs don't scale either.

That's one of the problems in the developing world.
Lots of educated young people, and the only place they fit in the economy is with the state.

If we're just talking about the US - most state/Fed jobs are hard to get. The exceptions being teaching and policing.
I agree to a certain point, however, in Michigan government jobs are plentiful especially in the Department of Health and Human Services (Social Workers, Mental Health Techs, Nursing, CNA, etc.).
 

Gritsngravy

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Low key, one job that sort of is a trade and has a MASSIVE shortage is airline pilot. It's bad enough to the point where airlines are opening flight schools and guaranteeing a path to the major carriers after 2-3 years. The average airline pilot flies 75 hours a month. A 737 first officer makes $91 an hour their first year, and then it goes up to $134 or $140 an hour for their second year. Just food for thought.

Edit: those are numbers for United.
Where you see these flights schools at
 
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