If Kanye Is Such A Musical Genius Why Does He Need So Much Help?

[Insensitive]

You remember Beck, the cac that beat Beyonce for Album of the Year last year?
He does all of the writing, production, and plays 9-12 of the instruments featured on the album.
A single person powerhousing their way through an album isn't unheard of, or impressive. Its kind of expected.
Granted, the standard has long since changed, so I'm not going to hold that against him.

It isn't unheard of but let's be real, it's definitely impressive.
And depending on the genre, it's not expected at all because being proficient
at several different instruments is no easy task. And by proficient I don't mean
"kinda, sorta, okay" but actually being able to hang with someone who regularly plays
the instrument.

Jimi aint no genius either, but Im not a big fan of his so I could always be wrong

No, he was a genius without a doubt.
Relative to Rock Music and what he introduced to it, it was genius.
His influence also reached outside of rock music and into R&B and Jazz Fusion.

Miles Davis even kicked it with Jimi a little bit before Jimi passed.

Well genius in music is subjective as someone said. Imho Kanye doesnt cut it. Not when you have other artists like MJ, Stevie, Prince and Bob Marley in that category. Kanye just doesnt belong with those names.

Musical Genius isn't really an "opinion" type thing.

When bach was composing complex fugues and pushing counter point to it's absolute limits, he completely
changed music.
When Mozart was kicking ass in pretty much every genre of classical music AND helping to develop the piano concerto, it was obvious that this dude was displaying genius.
When Miles Davis came through with "Kind of Blue" and let Jazz heads know they could slow back down
and still make beautiful complex music. He dropped a bomb, something he would go on to do again
with bytches Brew.
When James brown decided to stay on a one chord vamp and focus on being
highly rhythmic, he pretty much created Funk music.
When Arnold Schoenberg introduced 12 Tone Rows into Atonal music in an attempt
to get further from tonality and push the limits of this new style of composition, he
was showing his genius.
When debussy and other neo-romantics decide to push against the absolute limits of
harmony and see what they could get away with, THAT was genius.

Usually being a "genius" or having "genius" is pretty apparent and it's not really
up for debate. Maybe a person doesn't necessarily care about the music that came
from that genius but what they introduced isn't really a subjective thing.

You're thinking about it the wrong way. crafting a dope record takes an incredible eye for detail. a guitar player just has to worry about jamming out to the beat, whereas record producer has to attack the music from every angle.

That's not necessarily true though.
Guys like Kurt Rosenwinkle, Greg Howe or Tosin Abasi not only are highly
proficient at their chosen instrument (The guitar...) but they did the vast, vast majority
of the composing (as in pretty much all of it..)

For example Tosin not only played the regular guitar AND bass guitar parts by himself
but he came up with the drum beats/patterns and had a friend do the synth programming
for him. His band "Animals As Leaders" was essentially a one man band until he
hired on people he knew to tour with him.
Kurt Rosenwinkel is another example of a dude who's a highly talented composer as well as
an incredible musician.

 

[CodeBlaMeVi]

Why do you guys have it in your mind that in music one person does everything himself???


Like...who told you that?

My professor at audio school showed me a vid on hans zimmer the gawd, maybe the greatest film scorer of all time...


That nikka has a team of like 100 nikkaz writing for him. Nobody questions his genius in the film industry.

Hans is nice but he's notches below John Williams and Ennio Marricone may have something to say as well.

 

[CodeBlaMeVi]

Whole bunch of fake hip-hop fan wannabe ass nikkas always saying the dumbest shyt on here

Did you nikkas just start listening to rap? Having a whole fleet of mothafukkas to make one song is some new pop '00s shyt.

Hip-hop was built off nothing you kids, LL didn't have 50 million people contributing to Radio...Eric B didn't need a team to make one fukking song.

Pete rock didn't need 10 nikkas to make T.R.O.Y

Dr. Dre Produced all of the first NWA album basically by himself.

GTFO with that pop army Rihanna bullshyt you fukkbois. Sometimes I really hate you nikkas with your retarded uneducated ass opinions.

fukking Drake and Young Thong fans should be banned on sight.

Damn, people grow and move forward with ish. You hard ass fukk, bro.

 

[CodeBlaMeVi]

Daps and rep. You should make a thread on it. People acting like you have make every Melody, play every Instrument ,drums etc etc and the mix and master it yourself. Other wise you ain't shyt

Why this is only a hip hop point of view, I'll never know. And yea when it comes to rhymes the true ones write everything.for the most part. I get that and respect it. But there has never in the history of world been a producer that doesn't help

Facts.

A producer main job in a traditional sense is get the help to make an "artist" song and/or music sound polished so people respond better to it. That's a gift. In essence, a producer's main objective is to make a bunch of other people like the artist's material. Producers suppose to know which musician would play certain songs and parts better. You music know what to put in or take out so the public would respond better to the music.

 

[G.O.A.T Squad Spokesman]

Why y'all nikkas talking about Prince, QJ, MJ etc...?

They make pop music.

Kanye is/was a rap/hip-hop producer he don't even got a crazy musical background like those guys, you can't compare.

Because Kanye calls himself a musical genius and those guys are called geniuses by the people. They never called themselves that. After Purple Rain Prince didn't have to say shyt because the people said it.

 

[Entrapta310]

jimi hendrix was a producer? i thought he was a musician.
when kanye can read music and write a drum pattern down in music notation, i will call him a musician.
kanye cant write out a drum pattern.

he's no genius. he has help

 

[nieman]

Why did quincy jones need so much help ? Because there is more to being a great producer than just making a beat. Whats seperates dj muggs from dr dre ? They are great at composing. They put the right minds together in the studio to have the right chemistry. They get the most out of everybodys talent. Its like in a restuarant. The executive chef makes the menu, makes sure everything is straight and the cooks and the head chef in the kitchen execute. Kanye and dre are the executive chefs.

This is a horrible analogy. first off, in the traditional sense, the producer is the one that composes/writes the beat/instrumental then gets others to play it or assist. Smokey & Quincy wrote music, but I think the only instrument that Smokey played was the piano, Quincy played like 3 or 4 instruments. So them writing the music (and songs) and them having instruments that they didn't play into the beat is not anything to dicredit them, especially when they first simulated the missing instruments vocally. In hip-hop, most of them don't play an instrument nor can they write or read music, so everything is based on sound, and essentially, you are one in the same when you craft a beat. You may heard a song, made a beat from a 2 second portion, added drums, pianos using the machine, but your doing the same thing. Any help and it discredits you as a producer in the hip-hop world, same for penning. of course they still use engineers and mixers but other than that, it's your beat - start to finish.

Now, an executive chef at the restaurant started as a cook in some capacity, a line cook, head chef, whatever...and decided to open up a restaurant. These aren't people that just like food, knows what tastes good but need other chefs/cooks to do it. The restaurant is their vision and menu, but it's also their recipes. If someone goes down, they can get right back in the kitchen and mix it up. What Dre does, what Kanye does, Puff...is the equivalent of adding parsley or paprika to an already established recipe, because they like it...and in turn, some people like it or don't notice. When you ask someone else to make you a beat, so that you can put your spin or add something to it, you lose credibility as a hip-hop producer, because everything was done for you.

Actually, hip-hop producers and rappers don't get enough credit as producers and writers (except the ones that are more in the traditional sense), ironically they'll praise other genres for doing same ish as hip-hop.

So Kellz just had engineers and mixers and 1 track produced by the Trackmasters. Show me a Kanye album where he had no help writing and produced every song himself

I don't think they get it. They just want to twist it, so tht they can call Kanye a genius.

 

[KangCraSS]

Rakim also said Eminem was the Ali of Rap.

Unfortunately,Rakim smokes crack too .

 

[JerseyBoy23]

No matter how anyone feels about him now, his first three albums and MBDTF solidify his spot in Hip-Hop as one of the best producer/rappers to do it.

 

[GrindtooFilthy]

If that was the case, his last few albums wouldn't have been shyt

only yeezus was shyt so fukk outta here with this

 

[Harry B]

If Quincy and Miles were such geniuses why did they need help?

Either you're stupid or you speak without thinking, which makes you stupid. So yea, you're just stupid.

 

[CodeBlaMeVi]

This is a horrible analogy. first off, in the traditional sense, the producer is the one that composes/writes the beat/instrumental then gets others to play it or assist. Smokey & Quincy wrote music, but I think the only instrument that Smokey played was the piano, Quincy played like 3 or 4 instruments. So them writing the music (and songs) and them having instruments that they didn't play into the beat is not anything to dicredit them, especially when they first simulated the missing instruments vocally. In hip-hop, most of them don't play an instrument nor can they write or read music, so everything is based on sound, and essentially, you are one in the same when you craft a beat. You may heard a song, made a beat from a 2 second portion, added drums, pianos using the machine, but your doing the same thing. Any help and it discredits you as a producer in the hip-hop world, same for penning. of course they still use engineers and mixers but other than that, it's your beat - start to finish.

Now, an executive chef at the restaurant started as a cook in some capacity, a line cook, head chef, whatever...and decided to open up a restaurant. These aren't people that just like food, knows what tastes good but need other chefs/cooks to do it. The restaurant is their vision and menu, but it's also their recipes. If someone goes down, they can get right back in the kitchen and mix it up. What Dre does, what Kanye does, Puff...is the equivalent of adding parsley or paprika to an already established recipe, because they like it...and in turn, some people like it or don't notice. When you ask someone else to make you a beat, so that you can put your spin or add something to it, you lose credibility as a hip-hop producer, because everything was done for you.

Actually, hip-hop producers and rappers don't get enough credit as producers and writers (except the ones that are more in the traditional sense), ironically they'll praise other genres for doing same ish as hip-hop.



I don't think they get it. They just want to twist it, so tht they can call Kanye a genius.

A producer main job in a traditional sense is get the help to make an "artist" song and/or music sound polished so people respond better to it. That's a gift. In essence, a producer's main objective is to make a bunch of other people like the artist's material. Producers suppose to know which musicians would play certain songs and parts better. Your producer should know what to put in or take out so the public would respond better to the record.

 

[MikeyC]

If you call yourself a genius you don't need help doing what you do.

Ever heard of the phrase "no man is an island"? You're not human if you don't need "help"

Whole bunch of fake hip-hop fan wannabe ass nikkas always saying the dumbest shyt on here

Did you nikkas just start listening to rap? Having a whole fleet of mothafukkas to make one song is some new pop '00s shyt.

Hip-hop was built off nothing you kids, LL didn't have 50 million people contributing to Radio...Eric B didn't need a team to make one fukking song.

Pete rock didn't need 10 nikkas to make T.R.O.Y

Dr. Dre Produced all of the first NWA album basically by himself.

GTFO with that pop army Rihanna bullshyt you fukkbois. Sometimes I really hate you nikkas with your retarded uneducated ass opinions.

fukking Drake and Young Thong fans should be banned on sight.

This post screams of . nikka, it aint the 80s no more. Rap production has changed.

I don't think they get it. They just want to twist it, so tht they can call Kanye a genius.

I'll quote it again in case you missed it:

• Boo - Guest Artist, Rap
• Jim Bottari - Mixing
• Glen Brown - Engineer
• Cheek - Engineer
• Joan Collaso - Choir/Chorus
• Dave Conner - Programming
• Alex DeJonge - Mixing
• Joe Donatello - Engineer, Programming
• Bill Douglass - Mixing
• Tony Flores - Mixing
• Yvonne Gage - Choir/Chorus
• Andy Gallas - Engineer, Programming
• Abel Garibaldi - Engineer, Programming
• Chris Gehringer - Mastering
• General - Rap
• Gotti - Guest Artist, Rap
• Jessica Janis - Children's Chorus
• R. Kelly - Arranger, Composer, Mixing, Primary Artist, Producer, Vocals
• Gregg Landfair - Guitar
• Jeff Lane - Engineer
• James Lee - Engineer, Programming
• Ron Lowe - Mixing
• Donnie Lyle - Bass, Guitar
• Paul Mabin - Choir/Chorus
• Tony Maserati - Mixing
• Ian Mereness - Engineer, Programming

• Daniel Milazzo - Mixing
• Peter Mokran - Mixing
• Nick Monson - Engineer
• Amber Morrow - Children's Chorus
• Jeffrey Morrow - Choir/Chorus
• Joseph Morrow - Children's Chorus
• John Nelson - Mixing
• Kendall D. Nesbitt - Keyboards
• Flip Osman - Mixing
• Poke - Producer
• Herb Powers - Mastering
• Precision - Producer
• Paul Riser - String Arrangements
• Carl Robinson - Engineer
• Leah Robinson - Children's Chorus
• Matthew Robinson - Children's Chorus
• Rachel Robinson - Children's Chorus
• David Swope - Mixing
• Doug Swope - Mixing
• Cyrille Taillandier - Mixing
• Tone - Producer
• Richard Travali - Mixing
• Jeff Vereb - Engineer
• Bill W. - Programming
• Cheryl Wilson - Choir/Chorus
• Stan Wood - Engineer, Programming

Thats 51 people other than Robert Kelly who worked on TP2.com.

 

[MJ Truth]

A Bulls fan laughing at LeBron?

 

[G.O.A.T Squad Spokesman]

Ever heard of the phrase "no man is an island"? You're not human if you don't need "help"



This post screams of . nikka, it aint the 80s no more. Rap production has changed.



I'll quote it again in case you missed it:



Thats 51 people other than Robert Kelly who worked on TP2.com.

You have kids singing in TP2.com that got credit for the album. The rest are engineers and shyt. Kellz wrote and produced the whole thing except 1 song and wrote the entire thing solo. Kanye can't do that shyt and he's not close to being a genius. He wife's whores and gets other producers to help him sample real geniuses shyt while paying ghostwriters to write his rhymes.