IF in Marvel and DC main universes [earth 1, 616] everyone BUCKED royal rumble status who wins

[OG_StankBrefs]

@TNC in hea spittin dat hot fiyah.

 

[Mr. Negative]

And he's also stood in the middle of a supernova to no effect. In comics you learn different writers have different interpretations of characters and power levels. The Brick to the head is BY FAR a extremely low showing and a statistical outlier. You know Hulk got beat up and choked out by a Boa Constrictor too, right?

it's sarcasm, breh. I was expecting somebody to counter with Hulk getting kicked in the gut by Batman. But you're old school fam, so you get points.

That's why abstract beings are lame and no fun. Keep this shyt to Earth based heroes to cosmic level heroes and villains. Beyond that is just guessing.

If you say so.

Marvel Wins. Hell, even Wolverine was God Level at one point.

 

[Turk]

You my nikka Gizzle but a lot of this is factually wrong...

Everytime Flash goes faster than the speed of light, he risks getting absorbed into the speed force so its rare we've ever actually seen him do so because he always runs a risk of the Black Racer showing up. We've never actually seen Flash go beyond 4 times the speed of light, whereas we have seen Surfer and Superman go faster than that on more than one occasion.

False. Are you thinking of the Justice League cartoon? The Flash can access the speed force at will and has gone FTL plenty of times. As for Superman

Flash can move faster than HUMAN thought, but not faster than some aliens or other beings can process things, and its something he has to actively turn on. Which is how someone like Deathstroke, who always processes things faster than a normal human can get a slight jump on him as he has countless times in the past.

False once again. Deathstroke is only able to tag Flash (I'm speaking of Wally West) because of PIS.

And Barry Allen only outran Death for a while, he eventually got caught, let's not misinterpret the stories.

And Flash CANNOT absorb the speed force from Surfer as he uses no speed force to move and it doesn't exist in the Marvel Universe as showin in JLA/Avengers. Only way this is viable is if we place them in a shared universe, in which it will be negated and countered by Surfer's cosmic awareness.

The Flash doesn't absorb speed force....he steals speed. He'll be able to steal speed in any Universe because that ability isn't dependent on the speed force. Surfer's cosmic awareness doesn't save from getting attacked by enemies.

And Barry is not as fast or as powerful as Wally and this has been on record for years. Surfer can easily disrupt and defeat Flash by taking his traction away from him and then taking him out with one single blast or mental bolt.

True Wally is the fastest flash. Taking away his traction? You know the Flash doesn't need a solid surface to run on right? The Flash is too fast for TP to work on him.

Flash is one of my top 5 heroes, but him vs. Surfer is a mismatch that's way in Surfer's favor.

I think Surfer would win but he would not stomp the Flash.

 

[BAMBA]

Hulk got this.

The more you hurt him...the stronger he gets.

 

[TNC]

A New challenger, eh?

*cracks knuckles

False. Are you thinking of the Justice League cartoon? The Flash can access the speed force at will and has gone FTL plenty of times. As for Superman

I said Flash can go faster than light and he uses the Speed Force to do it. The problem is him going faster than light causes him to run into complications the faster he goes. This is why the Black Racer chases them down when they do this.

And yes, Superman can travel faster than light, he's done it numerous times, most specifically during the Max Lord Superman/Wonder Woman fight:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/36657/1795219-superman_vs_wonder_woman_1.png
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/3/36657/1795221-superman_vs_wonder_woman.png
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_16vaepAqX-c/TGRVhoSMSFI/AAAAAAAABzk/MBsEUGqGRKk/s1600/WW219+burn.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/36657/1795223-superman_vs_wonder_woman_2.png
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/7/72524/2950516-1048701380-26776.jpg

to the final timed panel: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/67985/1247150-wonder_woman_v2__219___page_19.jpg

Superman flew to the sun, Punched Wonder Woman to Earth then flew back in under 2 minutes. That's 4 times the speed of light.

False once again. Deathstroke is only able to tag Flash (I'm speaking of Wally West) because of PIS.

Its not PIS, its how comics work. Flash CAN think and move that fast, but he does not do it normally, he has to "turn on" the speed. His mind doesn't always work at that speed, he can just control it to do so at will. This function allows Flash to actually have stories and threats, trust me, Flash is a top 5 hero for me.

Slade's mind works faster than a normal human's at ALL times, that through proper planning and tactics allows him to best Flash constantly and lends argument that anyone with proper planning and tactics or a faster than human mind could duplicate the feats.

The Flash doesn't absorb speed force....he steals speed. He'll be able to steal speed in any Universe because that ability isn't dependent on the speed force. Surfer's cosmic awareness doesn't save from getting attacked by enemies.

He can do both. he has stolen speed and given speed to increase or descrease the speed of his opponents or other speed force users.

But its a moot point as he won't be able to do that to anyone in Marvel or outside of any universe but DC's as the speed force doesn't exist as was CLEARLY stated in the JLA/Avengers crossover, the only canon crossover in Marvel and DC history. That's why Quicksilver was able to beat him in Marvel but not in DC:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/133338/3694661-2720032607-flash.jpg

And Surfer's cosmic awareness allows him to know the details of his opponents without having the actual experience of facing them. It would allow him to be aware of Flash's speed force and powers before Flash knew a think about Surfer like knowing he won't be able to hurt him with normal punches.

True Wally is the fastest flash. Taking away his traction? You know the Flash doesn't need a solid surface to run on right?

True but he needs a surface to run on. And a non solid surface makes it more difficult for Flash to move as quickly. Its the whole reason Captain Cold fukks with him. Surfer can easily recreate any cold attacks to use on Flash.

http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g423/mistersarcastic13/f-19-20.jpg

The Flash is too fast for TP to work on him.

Not true at all.

Martian Manhunter using TP on Flash: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/81736/1503030-wallyvsintangibility.jpg

Gorilla Grodd using TP on Flash:

1. http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/10300/prv12488_pg4.jpg

2. http://dreager1.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/flashv2193-14nastynat.jpg

And if I really needed more evidence to debunk this, I can bring up White Martians, Maxima, Starro or Eclipso. Surfer can beat Flash with TP.

I think Surfer would win but he would not stomp the Flash.

Surfer has the ability to stomp Flash if he wanted, but he would not because:

a. He's a hero
b. He's peaceful and passive until his hand is forced
c. Flash would not go out for the kill instantly, so Surfer would have no reason to as well.

 

[OG_StankBrefs]

 

[Consigliere]

the skrulls have made reed richards fall back, he's smart but in this environment he doesn't impress me

best odds:

1. Superman
2. HULK
3. Flash
4. Franklin Richards / beyonder / scarlet witch [they control REALITY]
5. Black Adam - don't sleep: he made damn near the entire DC universe BOW DOWN straight ripping through them. He is PROVEN to be a GLOBAL THREAT TO ALL HEROES when he rages out.
6. Galactus
7. SUPERMAN PRIME
8. Darkseid [this guy proved he can make the multiverse FOLD and the earth his slaves]
9. Anti-Monitor [the shyt superman had to do to defeat this fool in Final Crisis ]
10. Spectre

Sucker bets:
Batman
doom
reed richards

These guys are smart and have prep but it means nothing when the entire comic universe is brawling TO THE DEATH

flash would be virtually unstoppable if he was using all of his powers...so many would die at his hands

It all depends how it starts. Reed time travels and deals with god level forces all the time. He can invent anything or see the future through science whenever he needs to. The only DC character he couldn't beat is Superman.

Doom is just as good as Reed and he knows magic. You know who's weak against magic?

 

[TNC]

@R=G , man you know what happened to the herochat forums? I ain't been there in a while but those respect threads were a gold mine, we ain't lose 'em did we?

 

[Turk]

A New challenger, eh?

*cracks knuckles



I said Flash can go faster than light and he uses the Speed Force to do it. The problem is him going faster than light causes him to run into complications the faster he goes. This is why the Black Racer chases them down when they do this.

And yes, Superman can travel faster than light, he's done it numerous times, most specifically during the Max Lord Superman/Wonder Woman fight:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/36657/1795219-superman_vs_wonder_woman_1.png
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/3/36657/1795221-superman_vs_wonder_woman.png
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_16vaepAqX-c/TGRVhoSMSFI/AAAAAAAABzk/MBsEUGqGRKk/s1600/WW219 burn.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/36657/1795223-superman_vs_wonder_woman_2.png
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/7/72524/2950516-1048701380-26776.jpg

to the final timed panel: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/67985/1247150-wonder_woman_v2__219___page_19.jpg

Superman flew to the sun, Punched Wonder Woman to Earth then flew back in under 2 minutes. That's 4 times the speed of light.

I should have corrected myself and said Superman cannot go light speed while on Earth.

Its not PIS, its how comics work. Flash CAN think and move that fast, but he does not do it normally, he has to "turn on" the speed. His mind doesn't always work at that speed, he can just control it to do so at will. This function allows Flash to actually have stories and threats, trust me, Flash is a top 5 hero for me.

Slade's mind works faster than a normal human's at ALL times, that through proper planning and tactics allows him to best Flash constantly and lends argument that anyone with proper planning and tactics or a faster than human mind could duplicate the feats.

This is how the Flash normally thinks....Superman had to speed up just to match his senses.

Spoiler: Keeping Up

He doesn't have to "turn on" his speed...he has to turn it down. The rest of the world is moving in slow motion in comparison to him. Slade's mind moves faster than a normal human but clearly The Flash isn't a normal human.....he thinks at the speed of light. It's PIS. For the sake of the plot they nerfed the Flash's powers.It's PIS like Deathstroke managing to hurt Wonder Woman.

He can do both. he has stolen speed and given speed to increase or descrease the speed of his opponents or other speed force users.

But its a moot point as he won't be able to do that to anyone in Marvel or outside of any universe but DC's as the speed force doesn't exist as was CLEARLY stated in the JLA/Avengers crossover, the only canon crossover in Marvel and DC history. That's why Quicksilver was able to beat him in Marvel but not in DC:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/133338/3694661-2720032607-flash.jpg

And Surfer's cosmic awareness allows him to know the details of his opponents without having the actual experience of facing them. It would allow him to be aware of Flash's speed force and powers before Flash knew a think about Surfer like knowing he won't be able to hurt him with normal punches.

The Flash has stolen speed from characters who don't have access to the speed force. He's even stolen speed from objects.
There's no reason why he shouldn't be able to steal the Silver Surfer's speed. JLA/Avengers isn't canon. Has Surfer's cosmic awareness ever been useful in a fight?

Spoiler: Speed Steal

[True but he needs a surface to run on. And a non solid surface makes it more difficult for Flash to move as quickly. Its the whole reason Captain Cold fukks with him. Surfer can easily recreate any cold attacks to use on Flash.

http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g423/mistersarcastic13/f-19-20.jpg

That's New 52 and that's Barry Allen. I'm talking about Post-Crisis Wally West. He can run in space.

Spoiler: Running in Space

Not true at all.

Martian Manhunter using TP on Flash: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/81736/1503030-wallyvsintangibility.jpg

Gorilla Grodd using TP on Flash:

1. http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/10300/prv12488_pg4.jpg

2. http://dreager1.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/flashv2193-14nastynat.jpg

And if I really needed more evidence to debunk this, I can bring up White Martians, Maxima, Starro or Eclipso. Surfer can beat Flash with TP.

Never mind. I recant what I said.

Surfer has the ability to stomp Flash if he wanted, but he would not because:

a. He's a hero
b. He's peaceful and passive until his hand is forced
c. Flash would not go out for the kill instantly, so Surfer would have no reason to as well.

In this scenario all those things would be go out the window though.

 

[TNC]

I should have corrected myself and said Superman cannot go light speed while on Earth.

I hear what you saying bruh, but Superman can actually go light speed on Earth, he just usually doesn't because of the backlash and shockwaves it could and probably would create IF he did it. Superman is safety first. And he doesn't have access to the Speed Force like Flash to control the atmosphere around him like Flash.

But he's more than capable of it.

This is how the Flash normally thinks....Superman had to speed up just to match his senses.

Spoiler: Keeping Up

He doesn't have to "turn on" his speed...he has to turn it down. The rest of the world is moving in slow motion in comparison to him. Slade's mind moves faster than a normal human but clearly The Flash isn't a normal human.....he thinks at the speed of light. It's PIS. For the sake of the plot they nerfed the Flash's powers.It's PIS like Deathstroke managing to hurt Wonder Woman.

About Flash's senses, I think we are saying similar things but from the opposite directions. You saying Flash is "default" at light speed and slows himself down to talk and interact with others, I'm saying Flash's default is normal human speed and he speeds himself up to whatever he needs. My point, however is that Flash is not at a super speed perception rate 100% of the time. He can, has and will continue to get caught by humans and slower beings on a consistent basis, this is why his default setting is "normal speed" or else he would literally never get caught and never be able to interact with people without intentionally allowing it.

I disagree that Slade's interactions (or any street leveler's interactions with much superior heroes) are PIS, but this is a debateable issue. Kind of the way most comic forums or long time readers like myself usually go by is if there is at least two instances of something happening, then a precedent is set. Slade has hurt tons of super humans before like WW, Aquaman and the like, and he's tagged numerous speedster on the regular. He made a habit of this against Wally in Teen Titans. Its not PIS, its different interpretations of how certain powers work.

The Flash has stolen speed from characters who don't have access to the speed force. He's even stolen speed from objects.
There's no reason why he shouldn't be able to steal the Silver Surfer's speed. JLA/Avengers isn't canon. Has Surfer's cosmic awareness ever been useful in a fight?

Spoiler: Speed Steal

JLA/Avengers is specifically listed as canon and the JLA has had arcs where it was referenced. Avengers Disassembled referenced the "Chaos Magic" that Scarlet Witch accessed in the DCU that Dr. Strange SPECIFICALLY stated "did not exist in the Marvel Universe" that drove her crazy in the first place. And regardless if JLA/Avengers was canon or not, you would still have to prove that Flash's speed force can effect people outside of the DCU which there is no other precedent.


In short, there is no real evidence the speed force would work on Surfer, and I already said Flash can steal speed from non speed force users, but they specifically have to be from the DCU. On the flipside, we have seen cosmic awareness and the power cosmic used in the DCU in FF/Superman, Surfer/Superman and Galactus/Darkseid crossovers. There IS a precedent for that.

That's New 52 and that's Barry Allen. I'm talking about Post-Crisis Wally West. He can run in space.

Spoiler: Running in Space

Pre-52 Wally had the same problems with Cold and the rest of the Rogues. And depending on the writers Flash's need of a surface has varied, but the vacuum of space does allow Superman, Flash and other speedsters do more than they could in Earth's atmosphere.

this is more about WHICH Flash are we dealing with here tho.

Never mind. I recant what I said.

I appreciate that and respect the fact you are man enough to admit to a mistake. Props

In this scenario all those things would be go out the window though.

If they are both bloodlusted, its still Surfer's fight to lose. He would literally just destroy the planet Flash was on.[/QUOTE]

 

[BelowTheMasonDixon]

Cyclops with prep time.

 

[R=G]

@R=G , man you know what happened to the herochat forums? I ain't been there in a while but those respect threads were a gold mine, we ain't lose 'em did we?

They were reduced to some off brand spot as a back up. Forgot the name of it.

 

[TNC]

They were reduced to some off brand spot as a back up. Forgot the name of it.

lol, if you get the name, let me know. I had posted a thread there in the last days and wanted answers on lmao

 

[Tako]

Phoenix

 

[Turk]

I hear what you saying bruh, but Superman can actually go light speed on Earth, he just usually doesn't because of the backlash and shockwaves it could and probably would create IF he did it. Superman is safety first. And he doesn't have access to the Speed Force like Flash to control the atmosphere around him like Flash.

But he's more than capable of it.

He's never shown the capability of doing it while on Earth though.....and on occasions where it would have been absolutely necessary to use it......such as this.......he didn't.

Spoiler: Not fast enough

About Flash's senses, I think we are saying similar things but from the opposite directions. You saying Flash is "default" at light speed and slows himself down to talk and interact with others, I'm saying Flash's default is normal human speed and he speeds himself up to whatever he needs. My point, however is that Flash is not at a super speed perception rate 100% of the time. He can, has and will continue to get caught by humans and slower beings on a consistent basis, this is why his default setting is "normal speed" or else he would literally never get caught and never be able to interact with people without intentionally allowing it.

The scan shows the exact opposite of what you're claiming though. What reason would he have to speed up so fast that time around him appeared frozen while he was just eating?

JLA/Avengers is specifically listed as canon and the JLA has had arcs where it was referenced. Avengers Disassembled referenced the "Chaos Magic" that Scarlet Witch accessed in the DCU that Dr. Strange SPECIFICALLY stated "did not exist in the Marvel Universe" that drove her crazy in the first place. And regardless if JLA/Avengers was canon or not, you would still have to prove that Flash's speed force can effect people outside of the DCU which there is no other precedent

In short, there is no real evidence the speed force would work on Surfer, and I already said Flash can steal speed from non speed force users, but they specifically have to be from the DCU. On the flipside, we have seen cosmic awareness and the power cosmic used in the DCU in FF/Superman, Surfer/Superman and Galactus/Darkseid crossovers. There IS a precedent for that

Googling it I saw references to it being canon for Marvel but not a single thing came up as far as it being canon for DC. I personally have never heard any references to it in any DC comic. You skipped over my question though. When has cosmic awareness ever been useful in one of Silver Surfer's fights?

Pre-52 Wally had the same problems with Cold and the rest of the Rogues. And depending on the writers Flash's need of a surface has varied, but the vacuum of space does allow Superman, Flash and other speedsters do more than they could in Earth's atmosphere.

this is more about WHICH Flash are we dealing with here tho.

Trouble with rouges when he's jobbing? Yes. Unable to run on ice? No. On the occasions when the Flash gets serious with his rouges he has no problem beating them.

If they are both bloodlusted, its still Surfer's fight to lose. He would literally just destroy the planet Flash was on.

And the Flash would out run it....he's escaped from a black hole before.

Spoiler: Escaping A Black Hole