:huhldup: Gawker: We Need Fewer College Graduates

[acri1]

Couple of points:

1. People picking shytty majors isn't really the main problem. Sure, people should be discouraged from picking majors with bad job prospects, and colleges need to be more honest about this, but that's not the root of the issue. It's not only people that pick bad majors that are having trouble finding jobs. Even if everybody currently in college picked a "good" major, a certain percentage would still end up working shytty jobs due to their just not being enough jobs for all of them.

2. College being too expensive is part of the problem, but again, if people could graduate and get good enough jobs to pay their loans back then it would be less of an issue.

3. Having a less-educated populace is not going to help anybody in the long-term. We shouldn't ignore the benefits of having an educated populace - educated people on average have better health, are less likely to commit crimes or go to jail, contribute more back in terms of GDP, etc.

My overall point is that too many people with college degrees isn't the real problem. The real problem is lack of decent jobs. That's what needs to be addressed. We need to figure out why society can't produce enough good jobs for people coming out of school.

 

[Hood Critic]

IMO people need to start promoting Community Colleges as a legit alternative for the first two years of higher education. Get a late start on college #fukkery but save a shytload of money.

I agree. The development of Associates, Vocational/Tech School programs should become a priority. It saves students money and makes practical fields of study available to them.

The lack of prestige in these programs will keep this from happening though.

Your collegiate focus should be your field of study instead of the debt that you incur in the process - which is the situation many students find themselves in today.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

Couple of points:

1. People picking shytty majors isn't really the main problem. Sure, people should be discouraged from picking majors with bad job prospects, and colleges need to be more honest about this, but that's not the root of the issue. It's not only people that pick bad majors that are having trouble finding jobs. Even if everybody currently in college picked a "good" major, a certain percentage would still end up working shytty jobs due to their just not being enough jobs for all of them.

2. College being too expensive is part of the problem, but again, if people could graduate and get good enough jobs to pay their loans back then it would be less of an issue.

3. Having a less-educated populace is not going to help anybody in the long-term. We shouldn't ignore the benefits of having an educated populace - educated people on average have better health, are less likely to commit crimes or go to jail, contribute more back in terms of GDP, etc.

My overall point is that too many people with college degrees isn't the real problem. The real problem is lack of decent jobs. That's what needs to be addressed. We need to figure out why society can't produce enough good jobs for people coming out of school.

Theres jobs bro. For the last month or so I have literally been getting phone calls from recruiters damn near every day about jobs for my skill set. My IT guy is getting even more love. Healthcare, same thing. Sure there aren't jobs for everybody, but there are a LOT of jobs that are going unfilled right now, because there aren't enough qualified candidates

Could the pendulum swing the other way? Sure, but nowhere to the same extreme. I dont see fields like IT or healthcare ever going in decline, barring some national catastrophe that will fukk us all over anyway. Odds are high that having a population with "enough" STEM candidates would be a huge net positive.

 

[Suicide King]

The real problem is lack of decent jobs. That's what needs to be addressed. We need to figure out why society can't produce enough good jobs for people coming out of school.

What about the unmotivated C student? I suspect those are the guys who make a up a large number of those low skill jobs.

 

[Hood Critic]

Couple of points:

1. People picking shytty majors isn't really the main problem. Sure, people should be discouraged from picking majors with bad job prospects, and colleges need to be more honest about this, but that's not the root of the issue. It's not only people that pick bad majors that are having trouble finding jobs. Even if everybody currently in college picked a "good" major, a certain percentage would still end up working shytty jobs due to their just not being enough jobs for all of them.

2. College being too expensive is part of the problem, but again, if people could graduate and get good enough jobs to pay their loans back then it would be less of an issue.

3. Having a less-educated populace is not going to help anybody in the long-term. We shouldn't ignore the benefits of having an educated populace - educated people on average have better health, are less likely to commit crimes or go to jail, contribute more back in terms of GDP, etc.

My overall point is that too many people with college degrees isn't the real problem. The real problem is lack of decent jobs. That's what needs to be addressed. We need to figure out why society can't produce enough good jobs for people coming out of school.

You have valid points but whose going to pay those "decent job" salaries to employ more graduates?

The state of the economy currently will keep job numbers lower than an acceptable mean.

So is the real problem(s) the need for new industry and the expansion of current industry?

 

[acri1]

I agree. The development of Associates, Vocational/Tech School programs should become a priority. It saves students money and makes practical fields of study available to them.

The lack of prestige in these programs will keep this from happening though.

Your collegiate focus should be your field of study instead of the debt that you incur in the process - which is the situation many students find themselves in today.

I definitively agree...I used to work at a community college and they had some worthwhile programs for sure. If you get an AS in the right thing you have a good chance of making some decent guap. And even if you want to go for your Bachelors, you can still do the first two years at CC and save a lot of money.

Theres jobs bro. For the last month or so I have literally been getting phone calls from recruiters damn near every day about jobs for my skill set. My IT guy is getting even more love. Healthcare, same thing. Sure there aren't jobs for everybody, but there are a LOT of jobs that are going unfilled right now, because there aren't enough qualified candidates

Could the pendulum swing the other way? Sure, but nowhere to the same extreme. I dont see fields like IT or healthcare ever going in decline, barring some national catastrophe that will fukk us all over anyway. Odds are high that having a population with "enough" STEM candidates would be a huge net positive.

Sure there are jobs in certain fields or for people with a lot of experience, but statistically there aren't enough overall for the number of college grads. Seems kind of unlikely that the people calling you or your IT guy are checking for fresh grads, even if they picked good majors.

 

[acri1]

What about the unmotivated C student? I suspect those are the guys who make a up a large number of those low skill jobs.

Well, of course people with mediocre grades will have a harder time finding jobs.

But there have always been unmotivated C students, even before the recession, that's nothing new. Still doesn't change the fact that they economy screwed them over compared to unmotivated C students that graduated before the recession.

You have valid points but whose going to pay those "decent job" salaries to employ more graduates?

The state of the economy currently will keep job numbers lower than an acceptable mean.

So is the real problem(s) the need for new industry and the expansion of current industry?

Pretty much. The economy just isn't producing a sufficient number of jobs. We could spend all day debating about what caused the recession but the economy just isn't adding enough jobs to keep up with the number of people entering the workforce.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

True true @acri, but we all started somewhere. My IT dude says starting out on some Geek Squad or help desk shyt is a legit door into the IT world. Retail jobs, food service jobs, they are dead end. Really you don't even need a degree to get into IT but thats another thread.

 

[VerbalIntercourse]

There is this really cool...like graph think in economics... It's called... let me think.. Supply and demand. I mean it's really cool, and it is really simple to understand.


There's a lot cool things you can do with this graph-thing.. Yeah.. You can like manipulate it to show the effect of subsidies, taxes, price floors and ceilings.

When the government subsidizes something, say college degrees or corn, there is always more supply than the market actually needs. Yeah, I think that is correct.

sarcasm aside.

Engineering fits certain personalities and skill sets. it's not something that everyone can be. So many engineering students drop out or switch majors.

Let's be honest here. the majors with financial pay-off are STEM. Can anyone be a STEM major? Honestly? You have to be smart. Not everyone is smart.

There are many well paying blue collar jobs, and it seems like nobody is telling these kids about them. Why not Blue collar? a Plumper get's paid 80k year. Isn't that better than getting 36K as teacher or as some "executive" assistant.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

There is this really cool...like graph think in economics... It's called... let me think.. Supply and demand. I mean it's really cool, and it is really simple to understand.


There's a lot cool things you can do with this graph-thing.. Yeah.. You can like manipulate it to show the effect of subsidies, taxes, price floors and ceilings.

When the government subsidizes something, say college degrees or corn, there is always more supply than the market actually needs. Yeah, I think that is correct.

sarcasm aside.

Engineering fits certain personalities and skill sets. it's not something that everyone can be. So many engineering students drop out or switch majors.

Let's be honest here. the majors with financial pay-off are STEM. Can anyone be a STEM major? Honestly? You have to be smart. Not everyone is smart.

There are many well paying blue collar jobs, and it seems like nobody is telling these kids about them. Why not Blue collar? a Plumper get's paid 80k year. Isn't that better than getting 36K as teacher or as some "executive" assistant.

STEM jobs equal everything from a Google app architect to the Cablevision guy. The idea that STEM jobs are only for geniuses is a lie. Science is genius only, that's fair. Terrible pay too. Should just be TEM IMO. Technology is a gimme. Again, Cablevision guys. Help desk guys. Engineering has got a lot of blue collar branch offs- machining, welding, manufacturing etc and a lot of it is coming back from overseas. Medicine has a lot of low level stuff (dental/medical assistants) and both medicine and engineering have a boatload of administration. Medical admin is a much better bet with all the complexities of insurance. So again, public's perception of STEM is way off... the shyt is far reaching with opportunities for everybody... even people w/o "STEM" skills/aptitudes

 

[VerbalIntercourse]

STEM jobs equal everything from a Google app architect to the Cablevision guy. The idea that STEM jobs are only for geniuses is a lie. Science is genius only, that's fair. Terrible pay too. Should just be TEM IMO. Technology is a gimme. Again, Cablevision guys. Help desk guys. Engineering has got a lot of blue collar branch offs- machining, welding, manufacturing etc and a lot of it is coming back from overseas. Medicine has a lot of low level stuff (dental/medical assistants) and both medicine and engineering have a boatload of administration. Medical admin is a much better bet with all the complexities of insurance. So again, public's perception of STEM is way off... the shyt is far reaching with opportunities for everybody... even people w/o "STEM" skills/aptitudes

Those low level "STEM" jobs pay at most 40-50K a year. Who can live off that? it's impossible.

You're critique of public perception of STEM is noted, but is there an alternative?

It's not finance/economics. They only hire from the most prestigious schools.

That's it. Every other major is not worth the time or the effort.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

Those low level "STEM" jobs pay at most 40-50K a year. Who can live off that? it's impossible.

Considering the median household... HOUSEHOLD, not individual income is ~$50K... for a family of ~4... I would say a lot of people

You're critique of public perception of STEM is noted, but is there an alternative?

Alternative to what?

It's not finance/economics. They only hire from the most prestigious schools.

Who? And no. My wife is making mid 5 figures in NYC from a public school in Missouri. Skills + experience >>>>>>>>>> pedigree

That's it. Every other major is not worth the time or the effort.

Who said that?

 

[VerbalIntercourse]

Considering the median household... HOUSEHOLD, not individual income is ~$50K... for a family of ~4... I would say a lot of people

lol at that crap? I made 40K when I was in college, and I barely could feed myself.

Maybe in those midwestern states, but 40k is not enough for anyone to live on in the coastal cities. No way.

I am a volunteer in a Tax preparer organization for poor families. We have a cut off at 51K for individuals. 51K is consider poor here.

 

[Serious]

lol at that crap? I made 40K when I was in college, and I barely could feed myself.

Maybe in those midwestern states, but 40k is not enough for anyone to live on in the coastal cities. No way.

I am a volunteer in a Tax preparer organization for poor families. We have a cut off at 51K for individuals. 51K is consider poor here.

This won't end well....