How would an assault rifle stop the government from going 1984?

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

I still think if there will be a fight, it will be via the internet through hackers. I think that is one place where the govt and the people would be on equal footing.

 

[Type Username Here]

What difference does it make? The point is either way I'd lose

Losing is not a guarantee. Yes, most likely you would lose. But a man doesn't go into situations such as thinking they are going to lose because then they have lost already.

If it makes you feel good to think you'd die like some kind of black Rambo then great for you. But from the practical POV its a dead mission

I'm not black. I'm not Rambo. I was trained very well though as a Marine. As a Sergeant I wasn't trained in just weapons though, but in tactics, strategy and planning seeing that I've actually had to lead a squad into urban warfare. Go read a little bit about MOUT and counter-insurgency.

People keep talking about "the US has lost in the past to smaller countries"... again those smaller countries had trained militias, advantages in terrain, and conditions that made them tough, resolute, and actually willing to die for a cause, rather than just talk a big game about it on a message board.

I don't talk about it on a message board. Unlike you, I've actually experienced it firsthand, on several deployments. That trained militia was less trained than most gun owners. The advantages in terrain you speak of only apply to certain theaters. Iraq, after the initial invasion, was much more urban warfare and policing in nature. There was no terrain advantage for the enemy there, considering that we had up to date satellite images and controlled foot/vehicle traffic through military engineering and security measures. The part about actually willing to die for a cause is exactly my point. Most of you would be willing to die for a cause if it meant protecting your family against enslavement, concentration camps, etc. You'd also be trying to do the most to give you any advantage in that situation.

If you wouldn't be willing to die for something like that, you're a coward.

What do we have? A handful of folks who go to gun ranges + do paintball for leisure, a generally clueless and uninterested public, and already weak + vulnerable infrastructure that we are all embryonically dependent on.

Believe it or not, that is much more training than some in Iraq or Afghanistan. But again, for some reason you think you know more than me or Shogun in these areas. I know you think that all the remnants from the Soviet-Afghan war are the ones out there shooting or planting IEDs, but that is not always the case.

The few folks with formal combat training and the discipline + dedication to fight are in the military. So what the fukk are you screaming about? Its not about bravery/cowardice, its about reality

I'm not in the military. Neither are 1,000,000+ plus recent veterans and countless other veterans from the last 3 decades who are still in a position to put up some form of resistance, even if it is ultimately futile.

Seems you are trying to rationalize being a coward.

 

[Type Username Here]

I wouldnt lay down and let them enslave me. There are plenty of other ways to fight back. Best believe the ones who would make it out of this situation with their lives won't be the ones who grab their pistols and go shooting at tanks and drones.

Who is going to go shooting at tanks and drones?

A drone and thank can bomb and cause mass destruction but you still needs boots on the ground to capture, gain intelligence, mark targets, and fight an insurgency.

 

[bigesco]

this isn't any other time in history breh.. information has never been so vast and accessible. I don't think people would stand for disorder.

wtf is anyone doing about all the horrible shyt happening all over the world?

You're either blind deaf or dumb

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Who is going to go shooting at tanks and drones?

A drone and thank can bomb and cause mass destruction but you still needs boots on the ground to capture, gain intelligence, mark targets, and fight an insurgency.

That all applies if you are trying to overthrow a goverment. An already in power government oppressing its people needs no such thing. All they have to do is cut our food and gas supply off and us having guns will mean nothing whatsoever.

If they are willing to oppress and enslave the people, they'ed be willing to level entire neighborhoods where rebels might stay. There are no rules of engagement for a tyranical goverment. There would be no need to put boots on the ground and search for intelligence if the goverment wasn't looking to stop the fighting in an ethical peaceful manner. They'ed just kill whoever said anything opposing them. This is why America or any other country can't "win" in Afghanistan. it has nothing to do with them having guns or the "farmers resistance" its that our goal isnt to kill and enslave, our goal is to install a new responsible goverment. This will never work because those who have the guns and power don't give a fukk about the citizens if a responsible goverment ever tries to take hold, the rebels just start shooting civilians and the goverment breaks down into chaos. If our only goal was to kill and enslave the citizens we would have met that goal years ago and there would be nothing the insurgency could do about it.

 

[Constantine]

A couple of people have talked about Afghanistan. One of the factors in the Taliban falling was that they didn't have broad based support. Neither did Saddam Hussein. The Kurds in the north, and Shia in the south basically just allowed the coalation forces to enter their terriority.

 

[mbewane]

Im damn near right in the middle on this debate but I will say.....

Afghan farmers with little more than assault rifles have kept the US military on our toes for over a decade now.

That's mainly because the US tries to win "hearts and minds" if they just said fukk it and threw collateral damage completely in the bushes Afghanistan would be a parking lot right now.

The same applies to us, if they didn't care about collateral damage we'd be fukked. And in crushing a revolution I think they wouldn't care about winning hearts and minds.

I guess another point is that the US had to ship all the military over there, in a totally different environment, whrereas it would be playing at home and with all of its arms right there. Vietnam and Afghanistan shows that the US army isn't great in different environments (that holds for most western armies I think, France struggled in Indonesia, just like the USSR did in Afghanistan).

But regardless of all of that, I think the ONLY chance US citizens would have if the government goes psycho and wages war on its own population (just playing along, I see NO reason for the US gvt ever to do so) would be if a large chunk of soldiers AND officers left the military. If the US goes totally psycho, they won't care about using chemical weapons or WMDs, poison the food, of course there would be no running water, electricity or communications. They could nuke damn entire cities off the map. The only chance is that enough soldiers/officers would say "no way am I doing that to my fellow americans". But I doubt that any attack of the type would happen without the Gvt preparing it psychologically, by creating division among americans, thus making it easier to kill this or that american because he's "different" (black, unpatriotic, non-religious, the possibilities are endless). Once you get that ball rolling, it's very easy to get soldiers to kill their neighbours and long-time friends (that's what fascist governments do). If the US gvt really went psycho Nazi-style, there's no one on Earth who could stop them, assault rifles or not.

But again, I don't see any reason the US gvt would do that, nor how it would benefit from it. There are far easier ways to control a population/eliminate those who are considered "a problem".

 

[Type Username Here]

I just want to let everyone know that I don't think we are under a tyrannical government now. I think the government is corrupt, bought for and breaks the law, but I don't think we reached a point where non-violence resistance, legal challenges, voting and economic boycotts is futile.

I also don't personally think we will see a 1984 government outright, I'm much more inclined to think the "Brave New World" model would be implemented outright.

In case you haven't read either, here are some key differences between both models:

 

[No1]

The problem with Huxley's model, just based on those images is that in many ways it has more to do with people than the government. We are all here right now with intellectual curiosity despite growing up in the digital age (the younger guys like me especially who were the first ones to use the internet in elementary school). That's more reflective of complacent parenting and societies not encouraging people to seek out more. Those parents did not grow up in this generation so the deterioration of society, if we follow that model stems from cultural decay that predated the advent of mass technological communication and entertainment. Obviously the government had some role in all of these things.

 

[Blackking]

I'm not in the military. Neither are 1,000,000+ plus recent veterans and countless other veterans from the last 3 decades who are still in a position to put up some form of resistance, even if it is ultimately futile.

Seems you are trying to rationalize being a coward.

This is basically it right here. There is sh1t I've learn in the military that gives me confidence that a resistance wouldn't be a complete failure. Millions of trained people. I was a Sgt in my early 20 on deployments. There are lames who are currently in the military that wouldn’t out strategizesolder veterans in urban combat situations.

There are geniuses that would ensure that the government didn't cut off the flow of information and the internet. Also, there are people who work for the government that would flip QUICK as fukk if something popped off. For the entire decade I was in - if at any given time a revolution popped off in America against the government.. I would have flipped asap.

NTM, the rednecks and militia memebers. Sure they would be ineffective right now if the military wanted to wipe them away. But they wouldn't be lone random hicks if the government decided to completely take away rights, people would join them.

Unfortunately, the government would never act like N. korea or China. We will never see the take away of rights. Our nation will undergo a long drawn out brainwashing plan.. Only a few Americans will complain about it on the internet until we are all basically defenseless if some sh1t did happen.

 

[Brown_Pride]

The problem with Huxley's model, just based on those images is that in many ways it has more to do with people than the government. We are all here right now with intellectual curiosity despite growing up in the digital age (the younger guys like me especially who were the first ones to use the internet in elementary school). That's more reflective of complacent parenting and societies not encouraging people to seek out more. Those parents did not grow up in this generation so the deterioration of society, if we follow that model stems from cultural decay that predated the advent of mass technological communication and entertainment. Obviously the government had some role in all of these things.

consider the ratio of people looking at shyt vs not though.

FOr every one of "Us" (people with intellectual curiosity) there are 1000 "Them".

On another note. IF the government decided to go all out against the people they wouldn't just start shooting folk, I find it hard to believe ANYONE would be that stupid. No, instead, they'd do like the Nazis did...mostly because it was effective.

You start out by alienating one group of people (sorry black folk it would most likely be you first). Get everyone to hate them again...more...openly.

Round them up.

Then They'd come for the brown folk. "They eat beans and tortillas. WTF?"

Guns don't mean a damn thing.

Does that mean we should ban them though?

I don't think so.

THe more and more I think about things the more and more I see both sides are full of shyt.

The only reasonable measure i've seen is limiting clip size. Outside of that anything else is straight BS...from both camps.

 

[Brown_Pride]

Unfortunately, the government would never act like N. korea or China. We will never see the take away of rights. Our nation will undergo a long drawn out brainwashing plan.. Only a few Americans will complain about it on the internet until we are all basically defenseless if some sh1t did happen.

this right here.
This is the reality of the situation and one might even argue the actual plan...based on trends and such. We're in an info war and we're getting our asses kicked

 

[Type Username Here]

This is basically it right here. There is sh1t I've learn in the military that gives me confidence that a resistance wouldn't be a complete failure. Millions of trained people. I was a Sgt in my early 20 on deployments. There are lames who are currently in the military that wouldn’t out strategizesolder veterans in urban combat situations.

There are geniuses that would ensure that the government didn't cut off the flow of information and the internet. Also, there are people who work for the government that would flip QUICK as fukk if something popped off. For the entire decade I was in - if at any given time a revolution popped off in America against the government.. I would have flipped asap.

NTM, the rednecks and militia memebers. Sure they would be ineffective right now if the military wanted to wipe them away. But they wouldn't be lone random hicks if the government decided to completely take away rights, people would join them.

Unfortunately, the government would never act like N. korea or China. We will never see the take away of rights. Our nation will undergo a long drawn out brainwashing plan.. Only a few Americans will complain about it on the internet until we are all basically defenseless if some sh1t did happen.

I'm saying, I find it funny that all the Veterans and military people are saying there is a chance, and we should fight back, and all the others who have never experienced military life or combat are saying it's impossible. The people who know how the military works should be the most afraid it would seem, but that isn't the case for some odd reason.

 

[Type Username Here]

this right here.
This is the reality of the situation and one might even argue the actual plan...based on trends and such. We're in an info war and we're getting our asses kicked

That's why I said the "Brave New World" model is most likely. Sure, we have some 1984 elements here and there, but we will see that the most effective model is the old "Bread and Circus" model used by the Roman Empire. You supply people with food and entertainment, and you can get away with anything.

Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions — everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: bread and circuses

Bread and circuses - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And it's true from a personal standpoint. Sometimes when the new game, phone, or a sporting event comes along, I'll forget life exists.

That shyt is powerful as fukk.

 

[Blackking]

Those parents did not grow up in this generation so the deterioration of society, if we follow that model stems from cultural decay that predated the advent of mass technological communication and entertainment. Obviously the government had some role in all of these things.

For the most part people (especially under age 26) believe that the way the culture is leaning these days is Great and Progressive. I live in a basically hipster type of area. No guns, Whole foods, madd people riding bikes, lots of fakkits, career students, people who support dumb causes.

I don't have an issue with any of these people, I'm cool, but sometimes I wish I would move back around normal people. I would be looked at as a crazy person if the liberal fakkits that live next door to me knew about my Ar's. These people are progressive. They are college professors, and people who have high level positions in government and media. These people not only realize the intentions of mass media and government - they encourage it. They are extreme liberals and from our conversations, I realized that I'm moderate and not liberal.

Huxley's fear is the current situation. Our desires, wants, and needs to include any and everything = our wiliness to be corrupted and controlled.