How to Reduce Shootings (NY Times Article)

[Adeptus Astartes]

let the lawyers figure out their legal argument and let the judges and juries decide if it's a good one, but giving them immunity is a free pass that no other manufacturer enjoys.

They tried. Places like the Brady Campaign had a stated goal of bankrupting the industry through lawfare, so the industry lobbied to get PLCAA passed.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

One really big thing that would help that I've only seen one person in my immediate circle ever talk about, is to start designing schools that are more difficult to shoot up. In the late 1950's, engineers and architects all got together to reduce school fires. I want to say 1957 or 1958. We started building schools out of materials that don't burn as easily. We put fire extinguishers in every class. We started having more fire doors, etc. Ever since then, there have been many years where no kids have died in school fires, and I don't think there's been a year where we've lost more than 10.

Do I know what this school should look like? No. It's possible to build this stuff, though. And it'll cost money, for sure. But so will every other solution. This is definitely worth looking into. Court houses and prisons don't get shot up. They have 1 or maybe 2 points of entrance/exit. They have metal detectors and other physical countermeasures in place. There are absolutely physical barriers and design formats that can make it more difficult for schools to get shot up by evil and sick people.

Do I like the idea of sending kids to places that look even more like prisons or institutions than schools already do? No. But maybe something could be done with design to make them look less oppressive. And I'd rather kids go to an ugly school and be safe than have them go to a better looking school and actually not be safe.

I don't like it. First off the fire prevention doesn't work as an analogy because every fire prevented actually stops a fire, because fire isn't created by someone with a motive. But stopping a school shooting at the front entrance might just cause the guy to go to the playground. Or hit the school at 3pm when all the students pour out to go home. Or hit the kids at their baseball game. Etc., etc.

But more than that I don't like the tradeoffs. At best you'll achieve a minor rejection in gun deaths, but nationally it will be insignificant. Will it make the students feel safer? Unlikely, the hyperobsession with security will probably make them feel even more unsafe, not less so. And since you're optimizing for security then there almost certainly will be tradeoffs in a less welcoming or less social or less comfortable schooling experience, which means you're degrading tens of millions of young people's lives in a move that may or may not actually "save" any of them.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

There is a balance to be found between gun regulation and respect for civil liberties. Every sane person can agree on strong background checks, no fly lists, gun wait periods longerx2

I wonder if we'll ever reach a point (not now, but some future time) when the more reasonable gun rights people and gun control folk work out some grand compromise. Like, willingness to actually pass a constitutional amendment that ends the 2nd Amendment ambiguity and, since it's an amendment, renders the legal debates over the 2nd obsolete.

Would gun rights and gun control groups be willing to trade universal registration of guns and universal background checks for purchase for a constitutional guarantee that large classes of gun can never be confiscated en masse by the government? Doing so could create a bifurcation and going forward there would only be law-abiding guns and criminal guns, and anyone caught in possession of a criminal gun or moving a gun in an illegal manner would automatically be subject to felonies.

 

[88m3]

Texas police promise to "never stand down" after Uvalde

The gunman was inside the school for around 80 minutes before he was killed by a Border Patrol tactical team.

www.axios.com

such an unserious response

 

[ADevilYouKhow]

Donald Trump's Stiff Chant Of Uvalde Victims' Names At NRA Rally Curdles Critics' Blood — HuffPost

He ended his speech praising the National Rifle Association with his trademark "dance" step.

apple.news

The names and the gong like….

Just hearing about this

People on here miss this too, they miss Trump, his cruelty and incompetence

 

[DEAD7]

I wonder if we'll ever reach a point (not now, but some future time) when the more reasonable gun rights people and gun control folk work out some grand compromise. Like, willingness to actually pass a constitutional amendment that ends the 2nd Amendment ambiguity and, since it's an amendment, renders the legal debates over the 2nd obsolete.

Would gun rights and gun control groups be willing to trade universal registration of guns and universal background checks for purchase for a constitutional guarantee that large classes of gun can never be confiscated en masse by the government? Doing so could create a bifurcation and going forward there would only be law-abiding guns and criminal guns, and anyone caught in possession of a criminal gun or moving a gun in an illegal manner would automatically be subject to felonies.

This.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Republican Congressman just went rogue

GOP Congressman, former NRA endorsee says he would support ban on assault weapons in aftermath of Buffalo, Uvalde

"If an assault weapons ban bill came to the floor that would ban something like an AR-15, I would vote for it,” Chris Jacobs said at a news conference.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[imfromthesouthside]

Nothing will change with gun laws or mass shootings. It’s an acceptable part of being an American to the political ruling class.
You will never ban guns. You will never get universal background checks. You will never get more than you have right now. Especially right now in this climate. Give it 3 weeks until another one and we can have this same conversation. I have learned to accept mass shootings.

 

[DEAD7]

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Nothing will change with gun laws or mass shootings. It’s an acceptable part of being an American to the political ruling class.
You will never ban guns. You will never get universal background checks. You will never get more than you have right now. Especially right now in this climate. Give it 3 weeks until another one and we can have this same conversation. I have learned to accept mass shootings.

Look at this fukking deflection, you're a Tucker Carlson fan who has repeatedly said that he will only live in Red States and vote Republican for the rest of his life, yet you pretend to deflect blame for the lack of action on gun control?

You LOVE the portion of the ruling class that fights against gun control. You LOVE when black people get shot up by White supremacists following the ideology of your TV hero. In the NYC thread you bragged that it was easier to get a gun in your city than it was in New York and you said that as a positive thing. Don't bring this disingenuous bullshyt in here.

 

[skylove4]

You want to reduce mass shootings then ban assault weapons for public consumption outright.. Make it they are only to be made for military and law enforcement use only… the existing assault weapons in the public domain make them illegal and trace all of them back to the owners and have the ATF go collect them.. Mass shootings will go down immediately

I agree, this should happen now. The only way civilians should be able to shoot assault weapons is at a gun range, with the weapons being rented there and heavily monitored , just like the only way you can see a lion is at a zoo.

 

[Nigerianwonder]

Require a federal permit/license to own any guns or ammo.
Require background checks and yearly mental health evaluations
Require every gun that people own to be registered. Absolutely no reason why this is not the case.
Increase penalties if you are caught with an unregistered gun or ammo ( loss of ownership privileges and felony jail time)

That's a good start.

 

[Ozymandeas]

You want to reduce mass shootings then ban assault weapons for public consumption outright.. Make it they are only to be made for military and law enforcement use only… the existing assault weapons in the public domain make them illegal and trace all of them back to the owners and have the ATF go collect them.. Mass shootings will go down immediately

This + I would make gun ownership an exhaustive process akin to studying for the bar. Not as drastic of course but, you get the point. You should have to take several classes, get additional licenses to own certain guns, etc. That would give you time to run multiple background checks, psych evals, limit straw purchases and promote responsible gun ownership. Secondly, I always find it funny when gun owners say they'd start shooting if someone collected their guns. Yea right. If automatic guns were outlawed tomorrow, 99% of people wouldn't get busy and wouldn't do nothing.

 

[shonuff]

This + I would make gun ownership an exhaustive process akin to studying for the bar. Not as drastic of course but, you get the point. You should have to take several classes, get additional licenses to own certain guns, etc. That would give you time to run multiple background checks, psych evals, limit straw purchases and promote responsible gun ownership. Secondly, I always find it funny when gun owners say they'd start shooting if someone collected their guns. Yea right. If automatic guns were outlawed tomorrow, 99% of people wouldn't get busy and wouldn't do nothing.

Automatic guns are already outlawed.....so.are straw purchases

Noone should have to take multiple classes or have psych evals or get licenses to engage in. "Right" ...

The ignorance about why things like Intelligence tests or "certifications" is exactly what was used to e act policies like Jim Crow or Sufferage....

This country's own citizens are woefully ignorant about its laws and the ideas behind why ourconstotutional laws are crafted ...



This country is mired in ignorance ...

 

[New Jeruzalem Journalist]

I must've missed the part of the article where it goes over how to get Republicans to vote for this.

This is the most pertinent post in this entire thread and I'm the first person to even comment on it.