How much did Hoegan damage Bret Hart’s legacy?

[Wacky D]

i understand that most of this board ir pro-WWF and started out in that bret/shawn era but yall gotta just come to grips with the fact that those guys werent draws. theyre 2nd-tier main eventers at best. you cant build a company around them. it doesnt matter who they beat.

people watch these documentaries and think hogan made such & such by losing to them.
in reality, dudes like warrior and goldberg were ultra-over before beating hogan.
warrior was out-popping hogan regularly in '89.

also, bret went over a bunch of icons in WCW. whats the excuse for bret being lukewarm?? and f you know you didnt watch WCW, please dont bother pump-faking with these generic WWE-influenced revisionist arguments.

 

[julesocean]

Can't co-sign that.. Bret had some great promos.. such as the "frustrated not the got damn word for it!" or the "who are you to doubt El Dandy? "

His run as a heel in '97 was great and everyone remembers that when he was feuding with Stone Cold. That's what made Stone Cold a household name that feud there..

Yup, list arguably his two best promos as ones that he was cutting on the reg. He was great on the mic most of the time. Passable, but not great.

Yes he did a good job in that role. It doesn't have anything to do with how he was lacking a little IT factor or charisma to really make himself a megastar. He certainly wasn't outshining Austin, and that was just the popoff before he really started getting in his bag...

Like people are really in here saying that that Bret would have filled all the holes in his game outside of ringwork, if he had beat Hogan....

Hogan was a bytch for ducking him, yes. Bret is a damn good wrestler and good talent, but was he ever gonna win the fans over the way some of the higher tier GOATs did? No. It woulda been a good moment and accolade, but ultimately you gotta perform on TV to get to the very highest regards with the fans.

 

[julesocean]

Shawn Michaels absolutely bombed. He's a loser.

A million more charisma than Bret though. That's the point I'm making.

 

[invincible1914]

Honestly, if Brett was to come into the arena today, the pop would be crazy. But Hogan would bring his racist ass out there, he would get booed out of the building.

Hulkamania is dead.

 

[prophecypro]

I dont think it hurt him in WWF, actually gave him sympathy and cred to a certain extent and probably hurt Hoegan more on top of the steroid trial.

Maybe in WCW, but again thats probably Bischoff too

 

[prophecypro]

Honestly, if Brett was to come into the arena today, the pop would be crazy. But Hogan would bring his racist ass out there, he would get booed out of the building.

Hulkamania is dead.

Yup

Wrestlemania 37 was a real reality check for him.

Got Booed in his hometown of Tampa from the most hardcore of WWE fans who were willing to risk it for the rona in Florida to watch live WWE wrestling, so you know they were the most loyal of fans...... and they still didnt care to cheer to him, one of the 3 most important people for that company

He should have taken the sincere apology route and "let me learn brother" bullshyt tour in 2015 when people were still sorta kinda willing to forgive cancelled people. Instead the goof hid in Florida with Maga types, talked about voting for Trump, asked why all lives shouldnt matter when someone on twitter asked him if he could speak out on BLM to show he wasnt racist (I think Im the only person who caught that tweet ) and tried to do the same caricture ass routine...and when he had a chance to explain himself to a newer generation of the locker room in 2018....he said dont get caught on tape.

Literally every wrestling legend benefitted from fukk up cause the E was scambling to market all the other guys on Legends contract with their licensing cause he had to lay low


The biggest fumble of bag I've ever seen Although Flair giving him a run for his money

 

[MushroomX]

As history stands, people mostly remember Bret for getting screwed over by Shawn Michaels.

Hogan is remembered for the Andre the Giant slam, and the NWO.

Unless you a true wrestling purist in details, Hogan/Bret doesn't really come up much, but even then before Hogan's racism was exposed, he was already being exposed for a person the industry doesn't like.

Bret's legend is like one of those, "You only become Immortal, by the stories people tell of you." and those stories usually deal with how professional Bret was and how he protected them from getting hurt. Shawn can probably even attest that despite him vs. Bret not getting along, he still felt like he could trust Bret to help him put on a great match.

 

[ill_will82]

i understand that most of this board ir pro-WWF and started out in that bret/shawn era but yall gotta just come to grips with the fact that those guys werent draws. theyre 2nd-tier main eventers at best. you cant build a company around them. it doesnt matter who they beat.

people watch these documentaries and think hogan made such & such by losing to them.
in reality, dudes like warrior and goldberg were ultra-over before beating hogan.
warrior was out-popping hogan regularly in '89.

also, bret went over a bunch of icons in WCW. whats the excuse for bret being lukewarm?? and f you know you didnt watch WCW, please dont bother pump-faking with these generic WWE-influenced revisionist arguments.

Well I'm a say this though I started watching wrestling in the late 80s as a kid, I didn't have cable in my house to watch WCW unless I was staying with my dad during the weekend or summer.

I agree on the fact that Shawn Michaels wasn't a draw or a big mainstream deal outside of WWF. He had the whole company to himself in '96 at top with no interference or politics to derail his run as champ. Bret was a different story b/c he ran into the Hogan problem in '93 and then when he came to WCW in '97-98 Bischoff had no idea what to do w/him. But that's a whole different thread altogether.

 

[R=G]

A million more charisma than Bret though. That's the point I'm making.

In your head..fans never bought that. His charisma led to some fantastic failures.

 

[K-Apps]

A million more charisma than Bret though. That's the point I'm making.

I’m not sure I agree with that. Shawn was ok on the mic, but a lot of times (especially his baby face run) his promos felt flat and boring to me. It didn’t help he was pilled out of sometimes. Shawn’s best promos were usually when he was either mad or shooting. I think a like Bret, Shawn’s charisma was in the ring more than on the mic. Shawn was better on the mic, but I don’t it’s as big of a gap as most.

 

[showtime]

I agree on the fact that Shawn Michaels wasn't a draw or a big mainstream deal outside of WWF. He had the whole company to himself in '96

That's why house show numbers doubled and ratings were up in 96 that makes sense .

Bret almost ran the company in the ground from 94-95 if it wasn't for Shawn carrying in the midcard. Bret is one of the worst draws of all time next to Benoit and Gurrero

 

[Hey_zeus]

Vince should've had deflated Hoegan tap to the Sharpshooter on the way out

 

[Gangstar8]

i understand that most of this board ir pro-WWF and started out in that bret/shawn era but yall gotta just come to grips with the fact that those guys werent draws. theyre 2nd-tier main eventers at best. you cant build a company around them. it doesnt matter who they beat.

people watch these documentaries and think hogan made such & such by losing to them.
in reality, dudes like warrior and goldberg were ultra-over before beating hogan.
warrior was out-popping hogan regularly in '89.

also, bret went over a bunch of icons in WCW. whats the excuse for bret being lukewarm?? and f you know you didnt watch WCW, please dont bother pump-faking with these generic WWE-influenced revisionist arguments.

Its true, they were both average at best. Few days after montreal screwjob The Rock meets stone cold for the first time.

The true superstars.

 

[ill_will82]

That's why house show numbers doubled and ratings were up in 96 that makes sense .

Bret almost ran the company in the ground from 94-95 if it wasn't for Shawn carrying in the midcard. Bret is one of the worst draws of all time next to Benoit and Gurrero

Idk about that... (I'll check) but Shawn was supposed to lose the title as early as SummerSlam to Vader. From late 94-95 Kevin Nash was champ and business was bad so that was on Nash not Bret.



@10:10

Regarding Shawn Michaels' "Drawing power" in the 90s

 

[King Kai]

In a weird twist of fate, it was HBK that wound up sonning Hoegan years later