How could Jay Z be the GOAT when he's never made a good song that wasn't about Jay Z?

[SirBiatch]

Because the OP said that Meet the Parents was forced and uninspired, but it was a far more original concept than I Used To Love Her.

And I know plenty of Jay-Z fans that feel the same way I do, I've actually never met a person in real life that feels Meet the Parents is mediocre. And I'm very prepared to view it critically, in my opinion it's a great song. A classic song, that isn't about him or his crew.

respectfully, you sound young. You're pushing down a classic, one-of-a-kind, highly memorable hip hop track from a classic hip hop album that had immediate repercussions on rap (notably the Ice Cube beef) to inflate a mediocre track on a wack album no one but a Jay stan gave a fukk about.

I can't.

 

[Lifer11]

respectfully, you sound young. You're pushing down a classic, one-of-a-kind, highly memorable hip hop track from a classic hip hop album that had immediate repercussions on rap (notably the Ice Cube beef) to inflate a mediocre track on a wack album no one but a Jay stan gave a fukk about.

I can't.

I'm 30, I love I Used To Love Her and have since the first time I heard it, that doesn't detract from Meet the Parents being a classic in my mind and plenty of other rap fans as well.

And how exactly is I Used To Love Her, which you admitted uses an extremely old concept, more original than Meet the Parents, which is a completely original allegory that is extremely relevant to today's society?

Respectfully you sound close minded.

 

[SirBiatch]

I'm 30, I love I Used To Love Her and have since the first time I heard it, that doesn't detract from Meet the Parents being a classic in my mind and plenty of other rap fans as well.

Respectfully you sound close minded.

You're rambling. You said I Used To Love HER's twist was derivative (it wasn't - not by a long fukking shot) and essentially tried to downgrade I Used To Love Her as a way to put your made-up criticisms on the same level as our criticisms for Meet The Parents. Please don't play dumb.

I Used To Love HER is vastly ahead of Meet The Parents. In fact, I would question the hip hop taste of anyone who thought they were remotely close in quality. For fux sake, Meet The Parents doesn't even have a wiki entry. Mostly because it wasn't a single but at the same time, it's literally a footnote in Jay-Z's discography.

Why in the fukk would you even call I Used To Love Her derivative and somehow on the same level?

Do your homework

Also, don't try that 'close minded' shyt. I'm more open-minded than 99% of posters here. Which is why I engage in debate while others run/deflect. I love to be proven wrong and exposed to new ideas. But you gotta come with it. I'm not just gonna pat you on the back for a random opinion.

 

[Lifer11]

You're rambling. You said I Used To Love HER's twist was derivative (it wasn't - not by a long fukking shot) and essentially tried to downgrade I Used To Love Her as a way to put your made-up criticisms on the same level as our criticisms for Meet The Parents. Please don't play dumb.

I Used To Love HER is vastly ahead of Meet The Parents. In fact, I would question the hip hop taste of anyone who thought they were remotely close in quality.

Also, don't try that 'close minded' shyt. I'm more open-minded than 99% of posters here. Which is why I engage in debate while others run/deflect. I love to be proven wrong and exposed to new ideas. But you gotta come with it. I'm not just gonna pat you on the back for a random opinion.

All criticisms are made up. Also there's no way to be proven wrong on something as subjective as taste in music. We can debate all day that's all well and good, but neither one of us can prove the other wrong on a topic that has no right answer. And just saying something is derivative doesn't mean I can't also like it, but it does downgrade it, it's not like it's a wild unexpected twist in the end that he was talking about rap the whole time, and even you admitted it's a concept that's been used countless times in art before.

I disagree that I Used To Love Her is vastly ahead of Meet the Parents. Meet the Parents has a better beat/production, IMO it has better more vivid lyrics, a much more powerful and relevant story..I understand the tendency to romanticize the earlier days of rap (or anything for that matter), but I don't think I Used To Love Her is ahead of Meet the Parents, if you do that's great I can't make you think the same way I do, but you shouldn't assume everyone thinks, or should think the way you do.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

2 great songs that meet your criteria you dismissed right out the gate. You're entitled to your opinion, but "Meet the Parents" and "Minority Report" are both great 3rd person narrative songs.

Add "A Ballad For The Fallen Soldier" to that list also (though it's not a great song, it is good, it isn't about Jay, and it has a powerful message).

Also his first verse on Renegade is largely 3rd person narrative. Sure he speaks in 1st person a few times, but so does Nas in "Doo Rags", so does KRS in "Love's Gonna Getcha Down". "I Used To Love Her" is all told from a 1st person perspective, with just a derivative twist at the end of "Her" being rap/hip-hop. I don't think it's fair to act like that is on a completely different level than Meet the Parents, and I think Meet the Parents is just as good if not better than all the songs listed, it's an allegory, sure he tells a story of a father abandoning his son and then literally killing him in the end cause he doesn't recognize him, but it's also a metaphor for the damage done by fathers leaving their kids, it's not nearly as simple as just the father literally killing his son. That's a FAR more powerful message than "I Used To Love Her". Now of course you can come in and disagree with my post and try to discredit Jay's greatness because you disagree, but that's simply a biased inaccurate take on the matter, cause Jay has powerful storytelling songs/verses from a 3rd person perspective.

 

[SirBiatch]

All criticisms are made up. Also there's no way to be proven wrong on something as subjective as taste in music. We can debate all day that's all well and good, but neither one of us can prove the other wrong on a topic that has no right answer. And just saying something is derivative doesn't mean I can't also like it, and it does downgrade it, it's not like it's a wild unexpected twist in the end that he was talking about rap the whole time, and even you admitted it's a concept that's been used countless times in art before.

I disagree that I Used To Love Her is vastly ahead of Meet the Parents. Meet the Parents has a better beat/production, IMO it has better more vivid lyrics, a much more powerful and relevant story..I understand the tendency to romanticize the earlier days of rap (or anything for that matter), but I don't think I Used To Love Her is ahead of Meet the Parents, if you do that's great I can't make you think the same way I do, but you shouldn't assume everyone thinks, or should think the way you do.

You're smoking crack.

And you're in the minority on this big time

 

[Lifer11]

You're smoking crack.

And you're in the minority on this big time

I don't care I've never looked for the crowd to validate my opinions...and honestly in real life not on a message board, people in the 25-30 year age group would pick Meet the Parents over I Used To Love Her, Common has a much smaller fanbase which is real die hard rap fans. Nothing wrong with that, but in the real world I wouldn't be in the minority.

 

[SirBiatch]

I don't care I've never looked for the crowd to validate my opinions...

fair enough. You shouldn't. One must think for him/herself.

However, that's not an excuse to be unaware. You have to be aware that what you're saying sounds absolutely ridiculous to any informed hip hop fan. Key word here is informed.

You can't sit here and rewrite history. I Used to Love HER is a vastly more monumental and powerful record than Meet The Parents. Saying otherwise is ignorant.

and honestly in real life not on a message board, people in the 25-30 year age group would pick Meet the Parents over I Used To Love Her, Common has a much smaller fanbase which is real die hard rap fans. Nothing wrong with that, but in the real world I wouldn't be in the minority.

Who gives a fukk what this age group thinks? They didn't create hip hop. In fact, they're riding the nuts of what my age group (and actually, people older than me) created or took to new heights.

Your average 25 year old doesn't know fukk-all about this genre, doesn't care about it like that and frankly is more of a pop fan than anything.

I've said this before: If you're not an 84 kid or before, you got the short end of this hip hop stick. Unless you have smart elders (not just random elders) that explain how shyt works or at least try to give you some necessary context, you'll have no idea what hip hop is actually about. Trust me. I'm an 84 kid. I caught a brief glimpse of when hip hop actually existed. If I had carried on without listening deeper and doing my homework, I'd have no idea what hip hop was about. That's how bad things were starting to turn in 1997. And by 2002, it was a totally different landscape. I had elders who put me on and I started understanding stuff better. It's not about dikkriding old opinion but it's about having context and being critical.

 

[McPiff]

OP has been doing anti jay-z threads for like a decade now and y'all still falling for this shyt?

all these long ass paragraphs about nothing and shyt cotdamn breh... you're too old for this shyt

Imma let you cook though

In order to be the Greatest Rapper of All Times, you have to be diverse in your subject matter. JayZ is not great at all to me, because almost every song can be entitled "Look At Me!" That's why his albums are called 1, 2, 3. He's selling you the same thing over and over again. I am glad that I never bought an album by this dude, especially after hearing "Moment of Clarity," where he admits being a sellout and he called his fanbase dummies who buy simple music. That he freestyles his albums is proof that it takes little effort to make these superficial songs. To me, you can be good, but you aren't great if your subject matter is limited. I don't care how many albums you put out.

When you make a song about something of substance and there is a rapper that you wouldn't call to rhyme on it, that rapper can't be the GOAT. Jayz needs Kanye, Just Blaze, Swizz Beatz, Timbaland and Pharrell to cover the fact that he isn't saying anything!


And who was the leading rapper when hip hop turned to good beats and hooks, and nothing raps in between them? Who pioneered that? Who pioneered this, "I'm not a rapper" nonsense? Who made it so that talentless rappers are the norm and standard? Jay-z is the reason that rap sucks! But yall love 'em though

Matter of fact @Mephistopheles keep em coming some of these posts are

 

[Lifer11]

fair enough. You shouldn't. One must think for him/herself.

However, that's not an excuse to be unaware. You have to be aware that what you're saying sounds absolutely ridiculous to any informed hip hop fan. Key word here is informed.

You can't sit here and rewrite history. I Used to Love HER is a vastly more monumental and powerful record than Meet The Parents. Saying otherwise is ignorant.



Who gives a fukk what this age group thinks? They didn't create hip hop. In fact, they're riding the nuts of what my age group (and actually, people older than me) created or took to new heights.

Your average 25 year old doesn't know fukk-all about this genre, doesn't care about it like that and frankly is more of a pop fan than anything.

I've said this before: If you're not an 84 kid or before, you got the short end of this hip hop stick. Unless you have smart elders (not just random elders) that explain how shyt works or at least try to give you some necessary context, you'll have no idea what hip hop is actually about. Trust me. I'm an 84 kid. I caught a brief glimpse of when hip hop actually existed. I had elders who put me on and I started understanding stuff better. It's not about dikkriding old opinion but it's about having context and being critical.

I agree with this, and this was never the topic of discussion. I Used To Love Her is one of the most legendary tracks in rap history, but personally I still prefer Meet the Parents over it. There are a lot of records from the late 80s and early 90s that are much more important to the culture than records of today, but that doesn't mean I have to think they're better than some of the music today. Rap has evolved, beats have gotten better, lyrics and rhyme schemes have gotten much more complex, etc.

 

[SirBiatch]

I agree with this, and this was never the topic of discussion. I Used To Love Her is one of the most legendary tracks in rap history, but personally I still prefer Meet the Parents over it.

That's fine. However, this is where you fukked up: You attempted to tell us how I Used to Love Her was derivative, and isn't up to the standard we have for Meet The Parents. Which is ludicrous.

There are a lot of records from the late 80s and early 90s that are much more important to the culture than records of today, but that doesn't mean I have to think they're better than some of the music today. Rap has evolved, beats have gotten better, lyrics and rhyme schemes have gotten much more complex, etc.

You know what's sad? Take an important record from the late 80s/90s, and 8 times out of 10, it's better than the vast majority of music today. That's the problem. Y'all don't see it because you don't know that era at all, and aren't prepared to study it. Due to distractions and insecurities.

That's where you start saying wild shyt like "x random track I heard off a 2000 release because I was old enough to actually have ears" > some monumental record that still sounds incredible that changed the course of hip hop history.

 

[mobbinfms]

Rap has evolved, beats have gotten better, lyrics and rhyme schemes have gotten much more complex, etc.

None of this true.

 

[Lifer11]

That's fine. However, this is where you fukked up: You attempted to tell us how I Used to Love Her was derivative, and isn't up to the standard we have for Meet The Parents. Which is ludicrous.



You know what's sad? Take an important record from the late 80s/90s, and 8 times out of 10, it's better than the vast majority of music today. That's the problem. Y'all don't see it because you don't know that era at all, and aren't prepared to study it. Due to distractions and insecurities.

That's where you start saying wild shyt like "x random track I heard off a 2000 release because I was old enough to actually have ears" > some monumental record that still sounds incredible that changed the course of hip hop history.

I'm not crazy about much of the music from the 80s, early 90s is a different story, I love how you act like you know what I've listened to and haven't listened to, or studied. It's just a matter of taste, like Run DMC is far more important to the culture than Fab, but I prefer Fab's music over Run DMC's (I'm using Fab as an example because I'm just a casual fan of his, and he's a pretty generic 2000s NY rapper, but I still like that sound over the majority of what was coming out in the 80s).

I also didn't say that I Used To Love Her isn't up to the standard of Meet the Parents, I said I prefer Meet the Parents, I never speak in absolutes regarding subjective topics. Just because I said it's derivative, which it is, doesn't mean it's not a great/classic track that I love, and just because I love it and know how important it is to the culture doesn't mean I can't prefer Meet the Parents over it.

 

[J-Fire]

If probably give it a 3-4 out of 10. It was the first Jay album where there were no great verses. The beats were nothing special. It was a cash grab.
KC had the Prelude which is classic, then a few good songs in the first half. On the whole it was wack - maybe a 5-6. MCHG was just a whole new level of

Beach is Better! That's a classic verse! Stop!

 

[J-Fire]

Rap is a skill like singing. Jay has the right flows for songs with one exception being "Ha Remix" that I cringe at every time. Also Jays other failure overall is ghetto techno

You need to sound good on the track & Jay does 95% of the time.

Lyrics can make up for mediocre rap skills like Kanye on college dropout until he developed later on. Same with Rick Ross in terms of content on port of Miami carrying Ross along with production before he stepped up with his voice/flow on trilla.