How could Jay Z be the GOAT when he's never made a good song that wasn't about Jay Z?

[mobbinfms]

That's how the Coli be. Most aren't rap fans like that and don't have the background to dispute shyt. So they use gifs/smilies/disappearing acts/deflections to hide.

You take this point too far. Breh's post was obviously ridiculous. It doesn't merit a response beyond what I gave it.

 

[SirBiatch]

You take this point too far. Breh's post was obviously ridiculous. It doesn't merit a response beyond what I gave it.

Cloud McFly is your alt?

 

[mobbinfms]

Cloud McFly is your alt?

I don't even know who @mobbinfms is.
Edit: Wrong Account

 

[Cloud McFly]

lol

Can't front... your responses even had me confused.

 

[SirBiatch]

To say he raps about nothing is grossly inaccurate.

Just because he isn't rapping about the stuff YOU want to hear, doesn't devalue it's actual meaning to nothing.

Take a song like You Must Love Me. He's searching for reasons to why certain people in his life continue to do whatever they can for him, and still value their relationship with him after he has done some unspeakable acts against them in 3 different verses. Basically showing the power of love for another will make one turn a blind eye to almost anything.

Or take a song like Falling. In it he brilliantly speaks on how great the eventual fall is of those in a certain lifestyle. Yeah, it's great to hear about one's rise to power, what they did during their reign, but usually there is only two outcomes that come with that, and in this song, he show that that life isn't all it's cracked up to be.


I could go on, as his catalogue is filled with jewels like this, but if you tell me that these songs are about nothing, either you just can't relate, or you are one of the two examples I mentioned before.

those songs are straight trash compared to Jay-Z's best stuff. I couldn't even get through them "struggle deep" shyts. You Must Love Me is basically about his family, so again that's not outside him. Dull song. Falling is the same ol "I have regrets and there are downfalls to this life" track we've heard a million times from other rappers, and especially from Jay-Z.

And the bottom line is that both of these songs aren't executed well.

Had to rinse my ears with "It's Alright". If Jay-Z isn't sounding cocky as hell on a fly beat, I'm not trying to hear dude.

 

[DrX]

Ppl don't understand jay. Jay music is brilliant, one of the deepest rappers

 

[Cloud McFly]

those songs are straight trash compared to Jay-Z's best stuff. I couldn't even get through them "struggle deep" shyts. You Must Love Me is basically about his family, so again that's not outside him. Falling is the same ol "I have regrets and there are downfalls to this life" track we've heard a million times from other rappers, and especially from Jay-Z.

And the bottom line is that both of these songs aren't executed well.

Had to rinse my ears with "It's Alright"

Both those songs are still better than everything A$AP Rocky has ever made though

 

[SirBiatch]

Both those songs are still better than everything A$AP Rocky has ever made though

I thought you weren't like your typical Coli poster.

That's how the Coli be. Most aren't rap fans like that and don't have the background to dispute shyt. So they use gifs/smilies/disappearing acts/deflections to hide.

@lini... How these posters expose themselves.

 

[Lifer11]

2 great songs that meet your criteria you dismissed right out the gate. You're entitled to your opinion, but "Meet the Parents" and "Minority Report" are both great 3rd person narrative songs.

Add "A Ballad For The Fallen Soldier" to that list also (though it's not a great song, it is good, it isn't about Jay, and it has a powerful message).

Also his first verse on Renegade is largely 3rd person narrative. Sure he speaks in 1st person a few times, but so does Nas in "Doo Rags", so does KRS in "Love's Gonna Getcha Down". "I Used To Love Her" is all told from a 1st person perspective, with just a derivative twist at the end of "Her" being rap/hip-hop. I don't think it's fair to act like that is on a completely different level than Meet the Parents, and I think Meet the Parents is just as good if not better than all the songs listed, it's an allegory, sure he tells a story of a father abandoning his son and then literally killing him in the end cause he doesn't recognize him, but it's also a metaphor for the damage done by fathers leaving their kids, it's not nearly as simple as just the father literally killing his son. That's a FAR more powerful message than "I Used To Love Her". Now of course you can come in and disagree with my post and try to discredit Jay's greatness because you disagree, but that's simply a biased inaccurate take on the matter, cause Jay has powerful storytelling songs/verses from a 3rd person perspective.

 

[SirBiatch]

2 great songs that meet your criteria you dismissed right out the gate. You're entitled to your opinion, but "Meet the Parents" and "Minority Report" are both great 3rd person narrative songs.

Add "A Ballad For The Fallen Soldier" to that list also (though it's not a great song, it is good, it isn't about Jay, and it has a powerful message).

Also his first verse on Renegade is largely 3rd person narrative. Sure he speaks in 1st person a few times, but so does Nas in "Doo Rags", so does KRS in "Love's Gonna Getcha Down". "I Used To Love Her" is all told from a 1st person perspective, with just a derivative twist at the end of "Her" being rap/hip-hop. I don't think it's fair to act like that is on a completely different level than Meet the Parents, and I think Meet the Parents is just as good if not better than all the songs listed, it's an allegory, sure he tells a story of a father abandoning his son and then literally killing him in the end cause he doesn't recognize him, but it's also a metaphor for the damage done by fathers leaving their kids, it's not nearly as simple as just the father literally killing his son. That's a FAR more powerful message than "I Used To Love Her". Now of course you can come in and disagree with my post and try to discredit Jay's greatness because you disagree, but that's simply a biased inaccurate take on the matter, cause Jay has powerful storytelling songs/verses from a 3rd person perspective.

No they're not.

Wow... y'all actually like those songs? They're fukking Again, I'm a Jay fan. If they were dope, that would be more the merrier. But I can't sit here and pretend like they're fire.

Y'all are deliberately (or not) missing the point. Anyone can record a 3rd person narrative song. Can they do it well? Is it career/track highlight? That's what OP is getting at.

All those songs y'all mentioned are struggle-deep and convoluted to the highest power. They all feature RnB singers (I wonder why) over plodding "I want you to feel something" beats.

Frankly, "Anything" is a better and more meaningful song than all these examples. And is actually a Jay-Z highlight. Cmon y'all. Am I really the first person to mention this song?

"I Used To Love Her" is all told from a 1st person perspective, with just a derivative twist at the end of "Her" being rap/hip-hop.

How the fukk was that derivative in 1994 when the song came out?

 

[Lifer11]

No they're not.

Wow... y'all actually like those songs? They're fukking Again, I'm a Jay fan. If they were dope, that would be more the merrier. But I can't sit here and pretend like they're fire.

Y'all are deliberately (or not) missing the point. Anyone can record a 3rd person narrative song. Can they do it well? Is it career/track highlight? That's what OP is getting at.

All those songs y'all mentioned are struggle-deep and convoluted to the highest power. They all feature RnB singers (I wonder why) over plodding "I want you to feel something" beats.

Frankly, "Anything" is a better and more meaningful song than all these examples. And is actually a Jay-Z highlight. Cmon y'all. Am I really the first person to mention this song?



How the fukk was that derivative in 1994 when the song came out?

Meet the Parents is a great song, with a great message, and doesn't feature anyone, and I think most Jay-Z fans would say it is a career highlight. To each their own, you're not going to convince me otherwise. It has a straightforward story with a much broader message behind it that is very relevant and important to today's society.

Also why does it matter if someone's featured on the hook? Someone is featured on the Brenda's Got A Baby hook. And you do realize that Anything is all about Jay-Z right? The main point the OP was making is that Jay hasn't made good songs that weren't all about him. Meet the Parents is a great song that isn't about him, Anything is all about him.

I didn't say I Used To Love Her was derivative of another song, but Common was not the first writer/artist to use a woman as a symbol for something else.

 

[SirBiatch]

Meet the Parents is a great song, with a great message, and doesn't feature anyone, and I think most Jay-Z fans would say it is a career highlight. To each their own, you're not going to convince me otherwise. It has a straightforward story with a much broader message behind it that is very relevant and important to today's society.

Of course not. You're not prepared to view it critically anyway.

I'm just telling you so that you don't go around thinking other Jay-Z fans feel how you do. Some do, some don't. Meet The Parents is mediocre work.

Also why does it matter if someone's featured on the hook? Someone is featured on the Brenda's Got A Baby hook.

Because 9 times out of 10, it's try-hard clumsy RnB garbage. Formulaic shyt designed to appeal to a broader, non hip hop audience

I didn't say I Used To Love Her was derivative of another song, but Common was not the first writer/artist to use a woman as a symbol for something else.

of course he wasn't Why would you even bring that up. Millions of artists have used women as a symbol for something else.

The fact of the matter is that, from what I know, Common was the first person to use it as a symbol for hip hop. Which is pretty damn potent. I know people who were hip hop fans/working in the industry in 1994. They were listening to the song and it was like "OK cool, a song about a chick." And then the reveal came they were like

Anyway, let's not waste time going back and forth on Common when this thread is about Jay-Z's inability to make a classic track that aint about him and his immediate crew.

 

[mobbinfms]

2 great songs that meet your criteria you dismissed right out the gate. You're entitled to your opinion, but "Meet the Parents" and "Minority Report" are both great 3rd person narrative songs.

Add "A Ballad For The Fallen Soldier" to that list also (though it's not a great song, it is good, it isn't about Jay, and it has a powerful message).

Also his first verse on Renegade is largely 3rd person narrative. Sure he speaks in 1st person a few times, but so does Nas in "Doo Rags", so does KRS in "Love's Gonna Getcha Down". "I Used To Love Her" is all told from a 1st person perspective, with just a derivative twist at the end of "Her" being rap/hip-hop. I don't think it's fair to act like that is on a completely different level than Meet the Parents, and I think Meet the Parents is just as good if not better than all the songs listed, it's an allegory, sure he tells a story of a father abandoning his son and then literally killing him in the end cause he doesn't recognize him, but it's also a metaphor for the damage done by fathers leaving their kids, it's not nearly as simple as just the father literally killing his son. That's a FAR more powerful message than "I Used To Love Her". Now of course you can come in and disagree with my post and try to discredit Jay's greatness because you disagree, but that's simply a biased inaccurate take on the matter, cause Jay has powerful storytelling songs/verses from a 3rd person perspective.

Meet the parents is better than I Used To Love Her? Loves Gonna Get Cha? Doo Rags?
Negged

 

[Lifer11]

Of course not. You're not prepared to view it critically anyway.

I'm just telling you so that you don't go around thinking other Jay-Z fans feel how you do. Some do, some don't. Meet The Parents is mediocre work.



Because 9 times out of 10, it's try-hard clumsy RnB garbage. Formulaic shyt designed to appeal to a broader, non hip hop audience



of course he wasn't Why would you even bring that up. Millions of artists have used women as a symbol for something else.

The fact of the matter is that, from what I know, Common was the first person to use it as a symbol for hip hop. Which is pretty damn potent. I know people who were hip hop fans/working in the industry in 1994. They were listening to the song and it was like "OK cool, a song about a chick." And then the reveal came they were like

Anyway, let's not waste time going back and forth on Common when this thread is about Jay-Z's inability to make a classic track that aint about him and his immediate crew.

Because the OP said that Meet the Parents was forced and uninspired, but it was a far more original concept than I Used To Love Her.

And I know plenty of Jay-Z fans that feel the same way I do, I've actually never met a person in real life that feels Meet the Parents is mediocre. And I'm very prepared to view it critically, in my opinion it's a great song. A classic song, that isn't about him or his crew.

 

[GeeEffKay]

Never thought he was ever the goat but i dont have much a problem if someone believes that