Horn of Africa Regional Thread

[Ikwa]

I mean fair point. It does remain to be seen whether Abiy turns out to be a snake and all of this is a fake honeymoon. However what I do know is the TPLF have decades of repressive policies in the Somali region.. Genocide and the blood of 30k+ somalis. The Butcher of Mogadishu is still free



No we don't

Never seen a Mali capping for Ethiopia. You must be one of those halfbreed Gurgura/Oromo

 

[Max B]

Say the TPLF come to power, how do you think it'll benefit your people? Do you not think that ahead?

Tplf won’t fully take over more likely a collaboration between them OLA and other anti Abiy allies of course.

TPLF and Abiy are same shyt to me no clue why you riding Abiy so hard when you got Ethiopian army in Somalia “peacekeeping” you give me farmaajo stan vibes


as long as both these raw meat eating midgets continue to murk each other than me nuh care

 

[SwizzLake]

The US is really not helping Ethiopia cause here.

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

Stop the cap breh. America only talked shyt for 9+ months just like they talk shyt about Saudi Arabia. They didn't do anything to Ethiopia until recently by placing sanctions and ending Agoa.
You guys fumbled the bag by not ending the TPLF quickly.

Kwame Nkrumah was a confused fellow who believed in pan-africanism but also supported the colonial borders. Quoting him is meaningless on this subject since he supported Ethiopia's claim to Western Somalia.
Unification is something you can trick children with but not grown people. Africa is way too diverse for unity.
Habeshas and Somalis are more distant than the French and British but they couldn't even stay "united" under the EU for 50 years.
We have different cultures, religions, values, and ideologies. We also have centuries of bad blood. There will never be any unity between us.
There's a better chance that China and America unite before we do (willingly).
Does that mean we should hate each other? NO! We can definitely can work together on certain things because we will be neighbors forever.


Are you serious?

Everyone in Ethiopia is poor and destitute. Your GDP per capita is similar to Somalia.

Somalis in Ethiopia have don't have a vioce in government like Amharas. They were economically sidelined, have been ethnically cleansed/genocided more than any other ethnicity by far, and have been under military occupation until 2018.
You Amhara brehs can't even hide your inner hatred.
This same breh is talking about unity.

Wow, what a dazzling display of hyperbolic bullshyt from you. Great job.

Your characterization of “not doing shyt” doesn’t include the bullshyt media coverage which has been blatantly one sided for much of the conflict. Doesnt include the growing case of claims that the UN and other NGOs have had corrupted officials aiding the TPLF. I mean gtfoh you act as if the Ethiopian Govt has been handled with kid gloves when it’s been ask to meet unrealistic standards with regards to the conflict. Credit to Woyanes for using those 27 years of dictatorship wisely by building important connections but you not gon sit here and pass this off as some sensationalism coming from the Ethiopian side. The moment Abiy tried to forge a real network between Somalia and Eritrea THAT was the moment that geopolitical interests were at stake. We can definitely agree however that the Abiy govt absolutely fumbled the bag with that ceasefire. A truly stupid choice on his part.

Nkrumah wasn’t right on everything but that doesn’t mean he is of no value at all. His description of Neocolonialism in Africa is very poignant. There’s no independent country on the African continent or anywhere else in the Black world. All of them are clients of the West. When one decides to go against that, this is what happens. Ethiopia’s current predicament isn’t something new to the world.

Also, describing Ethiopians and Somalis as that vastly different is a joke to me. We have a longer and deeper history than Britain or France ever did but here you are using them as the metric of measurement for harmony and unity amongst peoples. If our furthest ancestors used their same logic there would be no human race right now to speak of. All of this stands on our shoulders but people like you are thoroughly convinced and dug into the Eurocentric view of the world that you would never dare challenge or question it. To you, Ethiopians and Somalis can never unite and getting along is the most we can hope for. I view it differently. We can agree to disagree on it but if you think what I’m suggesting is childish then tell that to the successful nations of the world that united amongst themselves and are now lording over us playing us like bytches.

I take exception to the very term “Amhara” nowadays since that was a designation originally created by Italians in the 19th century, was reused during the Fascist occupation, and then reappropriated again by the Derg and Woyane respectively. “Amhara” merely speaks of the people’s of the highland regions which spoke Amharic for administrative purposes. This is why people from Manz are different from people from Gondar. Because so called “Amhara” aren’t one uniform group outside of language use.

Moreover, your characterization of so called “Amhara” as the only ones that benefitted is incredibly false. The Imperial era was just the same as the TPLF era in its very feudal nature. You’d think the regions where so called “Amhara” live would be on par with even middle income countries by the heigh of Selassie’s reign but it wasn’t. Why isn’t Tigray an African Singapore? Because at each turn these leaders merely used those ties to strengthen their own political agenda. That isn’t to say that some Amharas didn’t benefit, but by and large the majority didn’t benefit outside of certain forms of cultural hegemony which I personally think is a big part of the overall problem. I can admit that the so call Amhara peoples ego is definitely overinflated especially considering that Ethiopia has been a neo colony of the West since at least the end of WWII and definitely was solidified with the TPLF’s rise but they’re too proud to admit that and refer to Adwa as if they were there. Trust me, I’m not some ultra partisan highlander I have a good deal of criticism towards them also. The chauvinism is very off putting and on the overall whole most Ethiopians and indeed the region at large hasn’t politically matured past the feudal mentality. Both in terms of the rulers as well as the ones that are ruled over.

We can agree that Somalis in the Ogaden have been mistreated at every turn by most of the govts in Ethiopia which has administered. I personally have never hated Somalis, I love all of peoples of the Nile and Rift valleys because at our deepest root we are connected. I don’t blindly listen to the white man’s cons about us being so at odds and different. It falls right in line woth the rest of their racist tropes about Africa.

But it’s a question of at what point has there been leadership in Addis that is actually capable and willing to have honest dialogue, reconciliation, and a real integration of all peoples into one national identity? Abiy is honestly the first time we’ve seen this and we haven’t even had the time or chance to see if his whole “medemer” philosophy is also bullshyt. Most Ethiopians don’t even like ethnicity being overemphasized. This is why there was such vitriol for the TPLF from all angles both separatist and nationalist back in 2018/19. At our core it’s so simple, you Somali then cool, Afari cool, Oromo cool, that ethnic shyt wasn’t never supposed to divide us. Practice your culture and speak your language it’s all good. Those things don’t have to contradict with having national unity just be whoever you are and help push the country forward.

Our disagreements can be what they are but let’s at least be honest and say that the man wasn’t given a fair shake to really implement his program. And as Africans, no matter where you stand on this, watching the West doing what it’s doing right now is disturbing. Because let’s just say for arguments sake that Greater Somalia becomes a reality off of this, just how long do you think it would be before the West decided to break you guys up because you’re not following the white man’s program?

But whatever, I’ve said enough. Agree to disagree on many points but I can at least agree on some things.

 

[thatrapsfan]

I mean fair point. It does remain to be seen whether Abiy turns out to be a snake and all of this is a fake honeymoon. However what I do know is the TPLF have decades of repressive policies in the Somali region.. Genocide and the blood of 30k+ somalis. The Butcher of Mogadishu is still free



No we don't

That TPLF run Ethiopia governed as dictators and were behind war crimes/abuses in Somali Galbeed and Mogadishu is not in question. But I don’t buy the flip side of this argument that means we have to automatically throw all our support behind their opponent. Especially one who’s domestic support base are hardcore believers of glorious Ethiopian empire. Do Somalia and Somalis grievances predate TPLF rule or only about 1991 and after? Is self determination for Somalis in Ethiopia the ultimate goal? If your answer is yes to both questions, I think it’s naive to think things will develop in that direction under Abiy.

That he is a snake that has consolidated power is not in question IMO, he got in power because of Oromo protests, and turned around and abandoned every political goal they were advocating for at first opportunity. If he can do that to his own kin, what makes Somalis special?

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

That TPLF run Ethiopia governed as dictators and were behind war crimes/abuses in Somali Galbeed and Mogadishu is not in question. But I don’t buy the flip side of this argument that means we have to automatically throw all our support behind their opponent. Especially one who’s domestic support base are hardcore believers of glorious Ethiopian empire. Do Somalia and Somalis grievances predate TPLF rule or only about 1991 and after? Is self determination for Somalis in Ethiopia the ultimate goal? If your answer is yes to both questions, I think it’s naive to think things will develop in that direction under Abiy.

That he is a snake that has consolidated power is not in question IMO, he got in power because of Oromo protests, and turned around and abandoned every political goal they were advocating for at first opportunity. If he can do that to his own kin, what makes Somalis special?

Which Oromo political goals were goals that Abiy could actually deliver on? And as I said in my last post, what chance has Abiy even been given to prove whether or not he’s a political opportunist? So what, Oromo insurrectionists and separatists not getting their way automatically frames Abiy as a bad guy? Imagine that, a politician seeing that separatism wasn’t the answer and instead going for reconciliation between all groups?

Also, bringing up Imperialism is some fear mongering shyt that I wouldn’t expect from you. Abiy’s whole platform of Pan Ethiopianism is simply a counter to the TPLF’s failed ethnic federalism model. Citizenship to the nation supersedes ethnic ties which makes absolute sense. That doesn’t mean that ethnicity is done away with. It means you aren’t penalized as a Somali if you live in Tigray because you’re Somali or you can be an Oromo or Tigray in Benshangul because you’re Ethiopian, you don’t need to be Gumuz to be there. I haven’t heard in any of Abiy’s rhetoric or anywhere in his political program, ideas of taking over Somalia or lording over the country in some way.

I can agree that we need to see more before declaring him a political saint but the same should be just as true in determining if he’s a sinner as well. Honestly, I’m really surprised you want to “both sides” this shyt. Maybe you’ve been watching and reading too much Western media breh. Detox for a bit.

 

[thatrapsfan]

Which Oromo political goals were goals that Abiy could actually deliver on? And as I said in my last post, what chance has Abiy even been given to prove whether or not he’s a political opportunist? So what, Oromo insurrectionists and separatists not getting their way automatically frames Abiy as a bad guy? Imagine that, a politician seeing that separatism wasn’t the answer and instead going for reconciliation between all groups?

Also, bringing up Imperialism is some fear mongering shyt that I wouldn’t expect from you. Abiy’s whole platform of Pan Ethiopianism is simply a counter to the TPLF’s failed ethnic federalism model. Citizenship to the nation supersedes ethnic ties which makes absolute sense. That doesn’t mean that ethnicity is done away with. It means you aren’t penalized as a Somali if you live in Tigray because you’re Somali or you can be an Oromo or Tigray in Benshangul because you’re Ethiopian, you don’t need to be Gumuz to be there. I haven’t heard in any of Abiy’s rhetoric or anywhere in his political program, ideas of taking over Somalia or lording over the country in some way.

I can agree that we need to see more before declaring him a political saint but the same should be just as true in determining if he’s a sinner as well. Honestly, I’m really surprised you want to “both sides” this shyt. Maybe you’ve been watching and reading too much Western media breh. Detox for a bit.

Has nothing to do with Western media, I simply disagree with your view of the conflict. I could be wrong but simply my read of the situation.

To me if it’s a question between regional autonomy (even along ethnic lines) or a central government where power is consolidated by a single party in the name of a single politician, the former is preferable. Especially for regions in the periphery of the country like Somalis. Grievances of Somalis in Ethiopia predate TPLF rule and I’m skeptical the resolution is to thrown in all your chips into Abiys party.

He’s already shown himself to have extremely erratic decision-making, whether in his decision to pursue this war in all totality, or in the way he flipped on people who brought him to power.

You may dislike the Oromos political goals but it’s a fact that their protest weakened TPLF rule and paved the way for Abiy to get in power. It’s also a fact that he played on his ethnic background to consolidate power and drastically shifted, once it became a liability for his broader goals.

This was merely three years ago. It’s either Abiy was naive, a charlatan, or an opportunist for him to openly embrace Oromo nationalists then declare them terrorists and insurrectionists in the same time span.

 

[thatrapsfan]

Interesting excerpts from US Horn of Africa envoys speech a few days ago.

In bold, you’ll see he is openly stating that the US was highly supportive of the economic shift since Abiy came to power. He goes on to say that they initially fell out because of Trump Admins withdrawal of assistance because of GERD dispute and says Biden Admin reversed that, then Tigray conflict led to further degradation.



Viewpoint: "Change in direction must occur in days, not weeks": Jeffery Feltman - Addis Standard

The peaceful transfer of power in 2018 to a government led by Prime Minister Abiy Ahmed opened a new chapter in Ethiopian history as well as a promising new chapter in U.S.-Ethiopian relations. The new Prime Minister wasted no time in unveiling his ambitious economic and democratic reform programs. In line with his vision of a vibrant Ethiopian civil society, he welcomed U.S. democracy support and governance programs that the former EPRDF government had firmly rejected. His decisive shift away from discredited Marxist theories promised to attract considerable foreign investment to create jobs and economic growth. Our assistance and partnership programs, already considerable, grew to unprecedented levels.

From 2016 to 2020, the United States provided over $4.2 billion in development and humanitarian assistance to the Ethiopian people. To bolster the momentum of reform under Prime Minister Abiy’s leadership, the Administration and Congress provided tens of millions of dollars in new Development Assistance. Innovative programs supported the Prime Minister’s economic reforms aimed to promote private sector growth and investment. U.S.-funded capacity building programs aligned with the Prime Minister’s emphasis on democratic governance worked to strengthen the independence of the judiciary, electoral bodies, and the attorney general’s office. We even hoped that the reconciliation Prime Minister Abiy promoted between Ethiopia and Eritrea might create a positive side effect of an improved Eritrean-U.S. relationship. That is what we desired. Washington supported the lifting of sanctions that had been imposed on Eritrea by the UN Security Council, in hopes of turning a new page. Unfortunately, Eritrea did not reciprocate and continues to this day to play a destructive, destabilizing role in the region, including its deadly role inside Ethiopia. Few countries in the world have a worse human rights record than Eritrea.

Proud of the connections between Washington and Addis under Prime Minister Abiy, we firmly believed that this growing partnership benefitted both countries. We wanted to continue to travel this promising path together and saw even greater potential for the bilateral relationship. The Prime Minister has assured me on several occasions of the importance he places on Ethiopian-U.S. ties and told me of his affectionate memories of his own time in, and connections with, the United States.

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

Has nothing to do with Western media, I simply disagree with your view of the conflict. I could be wrong but simply my read of the situation.

To me if it’s a question between regional autonomy (even along ethnic lines) or a central government where power is consolidated by a single party in the name of a single politician, the former is preferable. Especially for regions in the periphery of the country like Somalis. Grievances of Somalis in Ethiopia predate TPLF rule and I’m skeptical the resolution is to thrown in all your chips into Abiys party.

He’s already shown himself to have extremely erratic decision-making, whether in his decision to pursue this war in all totality, or in the way he flipped on people who brought him to power.

You may dislike the Oromos political goals but it’s a fact that their protest weakened TPLF rule and paved the way for Abiy to get in power. It’s also a fact that he played on his ethnic background to consolidate power and drastically shifted, once it became a liability for his broader goals.

This was merely three years ago. It’s either Abiy was naive, a charlatan, or an opportunist for him to openly embrace Oromo nationalists then declare them terrorists and insurrectionists in the same time span.

Fair retort

I think there needs to be a balance of the two. It definitely shouldn’t be totally centralized and under one party. However, it’s clear that the TPLF’s model was a failure. Personally, I support restoring the old provinces but keeping the aspects of semi-autonomy from the TPLF era. Have a balance between fed and state similar to America.

As for Abiy as a leader. I definitely think he’s naive. Many of his decisions have looked very rookie like. There could be aspect of quiet political cunning and opportunistic double crossing but then again I don’t really remember Abiy actually espousing the more extreme views of the Oromo movement at any point. I could be wrong. But it would make sense for him to lean into his Oromo background from a political standpoint as it would strengthen his chances. The truth is, most of Abiy’s political goals are aligned amongst Pan Ethiopians of all ethnicities that want to do away with ethnic federalism and the ethnic violence that’s come with it. So Oromo separatism was never viable. If he used them, then he should’ve considered how he’d deal with the backlash.


If Abiy is all those things, I’d say he was also unfortunate in that he didn’t actually get the opportunity to deal with a more receptive body politic. It’s pretty much been tensions from day one.

 

[Max B]

Abiy is a goner

 

[Broke Wave]

Never seen a Mali capping for Ethiopia. You must be one of those halfbreed Gurgura/Oromo

I’m 100 percent Somali and I support Abiy and a strong centralized and United Ethiopia because unlike some of you smooth brained ethnic warriors, I listened to P when he said “there’s a war going on outside no man is safe from”

there is a war against the colonists, their remnants, and their supporters. It’s that simple. Abiy for all his faults was on the right side of that equation. Not one of you has family maybe in Ogaden but ask any one of them about Abiy. That’s millions of people. Ask anyone who supports Farmaajo (I don’t) about Abiy. That’s millions more still. Then finally ask the “Amhara” people just about anywhere about Abiy and you’ll see that he’s the only leader in all of Africa with a multi religious and multi ethnic support base.

these sick fantasies of Ethiopia disintergrating are from dudes who have no vested interest in the region. My mom herself was just in Addis in September and was in Xamar before that.


The same bullshyt is happening in Sudan, Somalia, Iraq now as they pivot further towards Iran, etc and yet all you guys can do is nitpick and try and psychoanalyze grown ass men.

 

[GnauzBookOfRhymes]

Never assume ppl who rise to level of leading a country are naive. It's just that there are short and long term interests and alliances of convenience are made all the time if there is a shared enemy.

 

[Ikwa]

I’m 100 percent Somali and I support Abiy and a strong centralized and United Ethiopia because unlike some of you smooth brained ethnic warriors, I listened to P when he said “there’s a war going on outside no man is safe from”

there is a war against the colonists, their remnants, and their supporters. It’s that simple. Abiy for all his faults was on the right side of that equation. Not one of you has family maybe in Ogaden but ask any one of them about Abiy. That’s millions of people. Ask anyone who supports Farmaajo (I don’t) about Abiy. That’s millions more still. Then finally ask the “Amhara” people just about anywhere about Abiy and you’ll see that he’s the only leader in all of Africa with a multi religious and multi ethnic support base.

these sick fantasies of Ethiopia disintergrating are from dudes who have no vested interest in the region. My mom herself was just in Addis in September and was in Xamar before that.


The same bullshyt is happening in Sudan, Somalia, Iraq now as they pivot further towards Iran, etc and yet all you guys can do is nitpick and try and psychoanalyze grown ass men.

Never read so much nonsense. Ethiopia is a colonial project in itself.

The whole Somali region was handed over to Ethiopia by Britain because the Somalis were unruly and put up constant resistance whereas Ethiopia was Britain's ally and fellow christian nation.

Before that it was the Portuguese who backed them and more recently the Soviets/Cubans. Ethiopia is literally the darling of the West/white man breh don't tell me about colonials.

If Abiy succeeded he would have eventually integrated Somalia within Ethiopia and made us 2nd class citizens in our own land, just like those living in Jigjiga right now.

No Somali would ever back that but for the Amhara/Ethio nationalists it would be a dream come true therefore you're either a halfbreed Gurgura or a very naive young dude.

The disintegration of Ethiopia is the best news any Somali could get sxb get your head out your ass fukk is wrong with you

 

[dtownreppin214]

Abiy is a goner

So basically TPLF, OLA (who don't even have majority support amongst Oromos), and a bunch of nobodies.

The fact that they're announcing this in D.C. instead of Ethiopia amongst the people is more evidence of who's pulling the strings of this coup.

Name any legitimate gov't that was formed outside of the native country.

 

[dtownreppin214]