Hip Hop was the 1st time in America where stereotypes of Blackfolks were self inflicted

smokeurobinson

Superstar
Supporter
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
22,680
Reputation
4,858
Daps
61,769
if you knew the full history of how blues/jazz was view by many white people, you wouldn't have to ask that question

:camby:


No...Dont deflect by posting videos. Answer the question. You been contradicting yourself over and over again and now u deflecting. Where is the self inflicted stereotype in the video u just posted called Tutti Fruity?? Point it out!!!

got a girl, named Sue, she knows just what to do,
I got a girl, named Sue, she knows just what to do,
She rock to the East, she rock to the West,
But she is the girl that I love best,

I got a girl, named Daisy, she almost drives me crazy,
Got a girl, named Daisy, she almost drives me crazy,
She knows how to love me, yes indeed,
Boy you don't know what she do to me,



I got a girl, named Daisy, she almost drive me crazy,
Got a girl, named Daisy, she almost drive me crazy,
She knows how to love me, yes indeed,
Boy you don't know what she do to me,

Tutti frutti, oh rutti,
Tutti frutti, oh rutti,
Tutti frutti, oh rutti,
Tutti frutti, oh rutti,
Tutti frutti, oh rutti,
Wop bop a loo bop a lop bam boom!
 

IllmaticDelta

Veteran
Joined
Jun 22, 2014
Messages
28,898
Reputation
9,531
Daps
81,375
:camby:


No...Dont deflect by posting videos. Answer the question. You been contradicting yourself over and over again and now u deflecting. Where is the self inflicted stereotype in the video u just posted called Tutti Fruity?? Point it out!!!

got a girl, named Sue, she knows just what to do,
I got a girl, named Sue, she knows just what to do,
She rock to the East, she rock to the West,
But she is the girl that I love best,

I got a girl, named Daisy, she almost drives me crazy,
Got a girl, named Daisy, she almost drives me crazy,
She knows how to love me, yes indeed,
Boy you don't know what she do to me,



I got a girl, named Daisy, she almost drive me crazy,
Got a girl, named Daisy, she almost drive me crazy,
She knows how to love me, yes indeed,
Boy you don't know what she do to me,

Tutti frutti, oh rutti,
Tutti frutti, oh rutti,
Tutti frutti, oh rutti,
Tutti frutti, oh rutti,
Tutti frutti, oh rutti,
Wop bop a loo bop a lop bam boom!

I didn't post that song as an example of self inflicted stereotypes...I posted the video so you can hear Richard explain why his records were popular/mainstream even while not being on white radio. You do realize what that was about though, right?

And, whatever the song’s lubricious origins in Little Richard’s early club performances, “Tutti Frutti,” his 1955 breakthrough hit, is not best described as “a paean” to anal sex that helped transform him into “a cultural icon on the scale of the founding fathers.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/books/review/DeCurtis-t.html?_r=0


After five so-so songs, they took a lunch break. Richard took over the piano and started hamming it up, pounding out his forte riff. As he later told his biographer, Charles White: "One song which would really tear the house down was Tutti Frutti. The lyrics were kind of vulgar: 'Tutti Frutti good booty – if it don't fit, don't force it/You can grease it, make it easy …'"

Richard was well aware of the song's risque connotations. Fascinated by all kinds of sex and – by his own account – a compulsive voyeur, he had immersed himself in the subterranean gay world of his native deep south, meeting along his travels legendary characters such as the eldritch rocker Esquerita (Steven Reeder) and the female impersonator Bobby Marchan.
Little Richard unleashes rock's transgressive possibilities

^^stuff like that is how/why white people thought black people were hyper sexual and if you know Blues and it's offshoot R&B (pre-Soul) you would know that it's loaded with sexual references



@ 1:26 (Little Richard)



or for example

"Sixty Minute Man" is a rhythm and blues (R&B) record released in 1951 by The Dominoes.[1] It was written by Billy Ward and Rose Marks and was one of the first R&B hit records to cross over to become a pop hit on the pop charts. It is regarded as one of the most important of the recordings which helped generate and shape rock and roll.[2]
Click to expand...
The record company then turned to the other, sharply contrasting, straight R&B song which the group had recorded on the same day, "Sixty Minute Man". It was issued in May 1951 (on Federal 12022), and by the end of the month had reached #1 on the R&B charts, a position it held for an almost unprecedented 14 weeks. The single also made it to number seventeen, on the pop singles chart and was voted "Song of the year" for 1951.[7]

The recording used Bill Brown's bass voice, rather than McPhatter's tenor, as the lead. It featured the singer's boasts of his sexual prowess,[3] of being able to satisfy his girls with fifteen minutes each of kissing, teasing, and squeezing, before his climactic fifteen minutes of "blowing [his] top".

The chorus was specific:

There'll be fifteen minutes of kissin'
Then you'll holler "Please don't stop" (Don't stop!)
There'll be fifteen minutes of teasin'
Fifteen minutes of squeezin'
And fifteen minutes of blowin' my top[1]
Lyrics of this type already had a long history. The reference to "Dan" (alternatively, "Jim Dandy") dates back at least to minstrel shows in the nineteenth century, and double-entendre had been used in blues lyrics for decades before this song was written. A common reference was to "Dan, the Back Door Man" - the lover of a married woman who would leave her house by the back door - as in a song of that title recorded by Georgia White in 1937.[3] Among the many precedents, but with a different perspective, is "One Hour Mama" by Ida Cox.[8]

"Sixty Minute Man" was banned by many radio stations, and was seen as a novelty record at the time. However, in hindsight it was an important record in several respects: it crossed the boundaries between gospel singing and blues, its lyrics pushed the limits of what was deemed acceptable, and it appealed to many white as well as black listeners, peaking at #17 on the pop charts. Cover versions were made by several white artists including Hardrock Gunter. Bill Haley & His Comets sang the song in the mid-1950s during their live shows. In later years, the Dominoes' record became a contender for the title of "the first rock and roll record".[2]


 
Last edited:

smokeurobinson

Superstar
Supporter
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
22,680
Reputation
4,858
Daps
61,769
out of all the responses in this thread @Knuckles Red had the best rebuttle...



I think the first time black people started to internalize stereotypes is when we took the n-word and claim it as our own. When people talk about that like it was some type of power move I always cringe. That was the lowest form of verbal abuse that the white man inflicted on our ancestors, and the LAST word a lot of them heard before they were killed. To take that and to incorporate it into our culture the way that we have I think has become so detrimental. Post integration is when it started to become most dangerous, and harmful to us. We now live in a time where white and black kids feel so comfortable around one another that the word gets thrown around like nothing. I would argue that, in terms of entertainment, hiphop music is a huge issue. I would also argue that the n-word, at this point, is THE issue. Again, I'm talking in terms of entertainment.



:clap:


This was very well said and might be the one answer that debunks my original claim.
 

IllmaticDelta

Veteran
Joined
Jun 22, 2014
Messages
28,898
Reputation
9,531
Daps
81,375
Yeah well thats the whole point of this thread. U keep going off topic, then u had the nerve to ask why I ignored u.


:camby:



You can have the last word...we are done.

let me explain it in plain english...before HipHop came along, I'll just stay in the pre-1960s era

White people thought blacks were hypersexual.

--Blues and R&B which was loaded with sexual themes/lyrics

White people thought blacks were violent

This was in their minds confirmed to them by listening to Blues music which is loaded with violent themes. Blues/Bad Man Ballads are the roots to the archetype for "Gangsta Rap"

EjxDKD1.jpg


stagger-lee-1.jpg




White people thought black culture promoted drug use/anti social behavior

This was also in their minds, confirmed when they listened to Jazz and the numerous songs about weed and the original Hipster subculture

Hipster (1940s subculture) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hipster or hepcat, as used in the 1940s, referred to aficionados of jazz, in particular bebop, which became popular in the early 1940s. The hipster adopted the lifestyle of the jazz musician, including some or all of the following: dress, slang, use of cannabis and other drugs, relaxed attitude, sarcastic humor, self-imposed poverty and relaxed sexual codes.

all those things to some degree were self inflicted stereotypes.
 

Arris

Superstar
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
8,902
Reputation
2,723
Daps
32,973
Reppin
Cleveland
let me explain it in plain english...before HipHop came along, I'll just stay in the pre-1960s era

White people thought blacks were hypersexual.

--Blues and R&B which was loaded with sexual themes/lyrics

White people thought blacks were violent

This was in their minds confirmed to them by listening to Blues music which is loaded with violent themes. Blues/Bad Man Ballads are the roots to the archetype for "Gangsta Rap"

EjxDKD1.jpg


stagger-lee-1.jpg




White people thought black culture promoted drug use/anti social behavior

This was also in their minds, confirmed when they listened to Jazz and the numerous songs about weed and the original Hipster subculture

Hipster (1940s subculture) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



all those things to some degree were self inflicted stereotypes.
@smokeurobinson
:jbhmm:
 

smokeurobinson

Superstar
Supporter
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
22,680
Reputation
4,858
Daps
61,769

:stopitslime:



why did u tag me?

Dudes whole argument that u just quoted says we were looked at as oversexed criminals by whitefolks because old school R&B started self inflicting stereotypes.(Even tho a lot of the most popular Jazz was music with no lyrics)


Thats the first time EVER in my life , I heard someone say whitefolks stereotyped us because of old school R&B. :what: Thats how I know it was a sad reach as a rebuttle.




If u agree with that uncle tom bullshyt, thats on you but dont pull me into such nonsense. Dude knew he was reaching by even saying such nonsense because he stated "to some degree" :camby:


I already stated who had the best rebuttle in this thread @ post #229
 
Last edited:

Arris

Superstar
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
8,902
Reputation
2,723
Daps
32,973
Reppin
Cleveland
:stopitslime:



why did u tag me?

Dudes whole argument that u just quoted says we were looked at as oversexed criminals by whitefolks because old school R&B started self inflicting stereotypes.(Even tho a lot of the most popular Jazz was music with no lyrics)


Thats the first time EVER in my life , I heard someone say whitefolks stereotyped us because of old school R&B. :what: Thats how I know it was a sad reach as a rebuttle.




If u agree with that uncle tom bullshyt, thats on you but dont pull me into such nonsense. Dude knew he was reaching by even saying such nonsense because he stated "to some degree" :camby:


I already stated who had the best rebuttle in this thread @ post #229
all forms of black music have been demonised by white people. you cant deny that. your arguing that rap done by individuals is self inflicted stereotypes (thug culture, crime, drugs, murder)

when things they said about us back then was we were hypersexual and brutish (do you know they had an old sterotype about black men and weed and they were afraid it gave us super strength and that we would rape their women?:sas1:)

you'd be the guy talking about jazz the way you do now with rap

were there not drug or sexual references in jazz? thats the simple question I need you to answer, a simple yes or no will do:ld:
 

smokeurobinson

Superstar
Supporter
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
22,680
Reputation
4,858
Daps
61,769
all forms of black music have been demonised by white people. you cant deny that. your arguing that rap done by individuals is self inflicted stereotypes (thug culture, crime, drugs, murder)

when things they said about us back then was we were hypersexual and brutish (do you know they had an old sterotype about black men and weed and they were afraid it gave us super strength and that we would rape their women?:sas1:)

you'd be the guy talking about jazz the way you do now with rap

were there not drug or sexual references in jazz? thats the simple question I need you to answer, a simple yes or no will do
:ld:

:what:

You're way off.

the only way that argument has any legs is if u actually accept the bullshyt that old school R&B really was perpetiating stereotypes on the same level as Hip Hop and thats just not the case.

Are u really asking me if Jazz was oversexualized and violent on the same level as Hip Hop?? Are u really asking me such foolishness???


You really gonna compare the lyrics of Tutti Fruiti by Little Richard to "fukking You Tonight" by Biggie??
 

Arris

Superstar
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
8,902
Reputation
2,723
Daps
32,973
Reppin
Cleveland
:what:

No....You're way off.

the only way that argument has any legs is if u actually accept the bullshyt that old school R&B really was perpetiating stereotypes on the same level as Hip Hop and thats just not the case.

Are u really asking me if Jazz was oversexualized and violent on the same level as Hip Hop?? Are u really asking me such foolishness???
no its not on the same level but its the same strain of logic. rappers who rap about certain things they havent or arent going through are perpetuating a sterotype but otherwise what your arguing holds no weight. im not gonna try and denigrate an entire artform like you are. if thats what certain artists are living or went through thats not a goddamn sterotype.
 

smokeurobinson

Superstar
Supporter
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
22,680
Reputation
4,858
Daps
61,769
no its not on the same level but its the same strain of logic. rappers who rap about certain things they havent or arent going through are perpetuating a sterotype but otherwise what your arguing holds no weight. im not gonna try and denigrate an entire artform like you are. if thats what certain artists are living or went through thats not a goddamn sterotype.



No...Its not the same logic.

You just admitted it isnt on the same level and u destroyed ya whole argument right there. If You have one genre of music where the greater portion of lyrical content involves rappers bragging about being better then the next man, having more money then the next man, killing other Black men and selling dope all in rhyme form over a beat from a machine.....There is no Fukking way you could even compare it to a genre of music were the focus is instruments, harmonizing and musical composition. Unless u are reaching, like that fool u quoted.


Also...you seem to wanna come to the defense that if rappers are actually living their words then its not a stereotype. What u are doing is actually defending the promotion of rappers bragging about killing their own kind and selling dope. fukk that...I totally disagree with such irresponsible foolishness especially in this day and age where such lyrical content is more prevalent then actual skills and creativity.
 

Arris

Superstar
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
8,902
Reputation
2,723
Daps
32,973
Reppin
Cleveland
No...Its not the same logic.

You just admitted it isnt on the same level and u destroyed ya whole argument right there. If You have one genre of music where the greater portion of lyrical content involves rappers bragging about being better then the next man, having more money then the next man, killing other Black men and selling dope all in rhyme form over a beat from a machine.....There is no Fukking way you could even compare it to a genre of music were the focus is instruments, harmonizing and musical composition. Unless u are reaching, like that fool u quoted.


Also...you seem to wanna come to the defense that if rappers are actually living their words then its not a stereotype. What u are doing is actually defending the promotion of rappers bragging about killing their own kind and selling dope. fukk that...I totally disagree with such irresponsible foolishness especially in this day and age where such lyrical content is more prevalent then actual skills and creativity.

1)if there was a sterotype about blacks being drug using hypersexual beings then any song or artform that spoke about these things, however little would be reinforcing those stereotypes...according to your logic, so yes you would be that guy who wouldnt like jazz.

2)its not the greater portion its the mainstream portion...

3)its not perpetuating a stereotype your still using the word wrong:dahell:

if you feel that way fine but stop saying its perpetuating a stereotype. I agree with your second paragraph except that part.
 

smokeurobinson

Superstar
Supporter
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
22,680
Reputation
4,858
Daps
61,769
1)if there was a sterotype about blacks being drug using hypersexual beings then any song or artform that spoke about these things, however little would be reinforcing those stereotypes...according to your logic, so yes you would be that guy who wouldnt like jazz.

2)its not the greater portion its the mainstream portion...

3)its not perpetuating a stereotype your still using the word wrong:dahell:

if you feel that way fine but stop saying its perpetuating a stereotype. I agree with your second paragraph except that part.



1) a lot of Jazz songs dont even have lyrics. :mjlol:

2) Datpiff says otherwise

3) Look we are going nowhere with this online back and forth....I asked MeachTheMonster if he'd be cool and not be a fukkboi if I sent him my phone # in a PM...he ignored it because I guess that kind of reality is just to much for him so now I will direct the same offer to u.....since u feel so passionate about your stance lets have a real convo. will u promise not to be a fuccboi and share my number if I pass it to u? Lets have some real grown man convo...thats what the net is for, networking....But it has to be like a 10 minute limit. I'm about to log off and go home and wont fukk with thsi thread till tommorow. You people have helped this day go by thats why I rep everyone even the opposers...... So wussup??
 

Arris

Superstar
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
8,902
Reputation
2,723
Daps
32,973
Reppin
Cleveland
1) a lot of Jazz songs dont even have lyrics. :mjlol:

2) Datpiff says otherwise

3) Look we are going nowhere with this online back and forth....I asked MeachTheMonster if he'd be cool and not be a fukkboi if I sent him my phone # in a PM...he ignored it because I guess that kind of reality is just to much for him so now I will direct the same offer to u.....since u feel so passionate about your stance lets have a real convo. will u promise not to be a fuccboi and share my number if I pass it to u? Lets have some real grown man convo...thats what the net is for, networking....But it has to be like a 10 minute limit. I'm about to log off and go home and wont fukk with thsi thread till tommorow. You people have helped this day go by thats why I rep everyone even the opposers...... So wussup??
not a number no but I'd take it to pm's.

at this point im just getting at you for your word choice so we can dead the convo.
 

feelosofer

#ninergang
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
48,903
Reputation
7,409
Daps
138,132
Reppin
Brick City, NJ
N1ggaz4life was arguably the catalyst that set this thing into motion. Prior to that yes there was gangsta rap but it was more cautionary in nature as opposed to glorifying it. Worse yet it normalized calling each other nikka in a casual way when prior to that it was only done primarily in anger or derision further more we began to see ourselves as that. I believe in today's hip hop while it is not out and out violent for the sake of violence in do think it promotes an abhorrent level of irresponsibility and lack of forward thought.
 
Top