“Hip Hop Came From Dancehall” Topic Came Up On The Breakfast Club

Swahili P'Bitek

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It wouldn't sound like it does now without African American music, as the entire instrument base wouldn't exist.
Nor would the equipment
Nor would the slang.
Nor would the backbeat.
I've already shown blues' influence on mento. The song I posted that was recorded in 1917, sounded like something Jamaicans would make YEARS LATER.
And I can list African from Senegambia and Nilotic groups in my area that sounds like something Cubans, Jamaicans and African Americans would make later, that doesn't mean there were no new innovations. When you hear dancehall, you don't need even two seconds to know what it is, and when you hear hip hop, it's exactly the same. It would impossible to have African hip hop and African dancehall then or African Zouk, or African blues etc. The funny thing is that when Africans make this music, it sounds different because of their own musical traditions. At the end of the day, Dancehall's sound is what it is and hip hop's is what it is. Hip Hop's sound didn't influence dancehall's sound till this trap-dancehall we hear now, and that's what people call real dancehall.
 

Stick Up Kid

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Not sure about dancehall

but most of the pioneers and founders of hip hop are of Caribbean descent. From Kool Herc, Flash, Bambatta, Zulu Nation, Furious 5 etc
 

IllmaticDelta

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And I can list African from Senegambia and Nilotic groups in my area that sounds like something Cubans, Jamaicans and African Americans would make later, that doesn't mean there were no new innovations.

most of what you year in modern african pop today actually is influenced by those new world groups


Hip Hop's sound didn't influence dancehall's sound till this trap-dancehall we hear now, and that's what people call real dancehall.

false....the first hiphop songs (Rapper Delight for example) on record in the USA definitely influenced what would become Dancehall by way of altering the vocal syncopation from freelance (early jamaican toasting) to on beat (by the time you get the 80s with the modern Deejay) See repost:


for one the toasting (freelanced style) in Jamaica owes it origin to Afram jive/radio dj's and then the modern Deejay style (more syncopated) was influenced by early HipHop





..........then they heard American Rap in the late 1970's






...and then in the early 1980's modern jamaican dancehall was born when they started using HipHop-Rap style syncopation to the beat when the jamaica toasting was always freelanced/not relating directly to the beat







this is basically all confirmed by Supercat

Supercat basically hints at it here

Super Cat was saying specifically that Rappers Delight was HUGE in Jamaica.

@2:23



shouts to @The Ruler 09 for posting that.



alot of the Dancehall of the 90s-->on was influenced by HipHop and Contemporary R&B of the day (which was also influenced by hiphop)


(it's called reggae fusion when they do it)

 

Swahili P'Bitek

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most of what you year in modern african pop today actually is influenced by those new world groups
I'm convinced you people don't listen to the music nor watch the interviews you post. Lol at Supercat not even knowing what a rapper was in the 90s. Why did Shabba have to RnB his thing to make it more consummable to Americans in that reggae documentary which I have watched numerous times by the way? If they were sonically similar, dancehall wouldn't have to do any fusions to cross over, just as is with African music. An artist like Burna Boy can have that appeal to American ears when he decided to do certain things to his music, whereas an artist like Olamide, regardless of how big he is in Nigeria, is never making a break into the US market and western world. He has a better chance of breaking into south america where there are no linguistic connections than to a market he can speak to in English. Artists like Awilo, Franco etc who defined Central African music and were mega stars across Africa in the last century were not ever getting into the US market because what they were doing was not usual to American ears, and to an extent British ears, places which have a higher purchasing power when it comes to music.



false....the first hiphop songs (Rapper Delight for example) on record in the USA definitely influenced what would become Dancehall by way of altering the vocal syncopation from freelance (early jamaican toasting) to on beat (by the time you get the 80s with the modern Deejay) See repost:


for one the toasting (freelanced style) in Jamaica owes it origin to Afram jive/radio dj's and then the modern Deejay style (more syncopated) was influenced by early HipHop




this is basically all confirmed by Supercat

Supercat basically hints at it here




alot of the Dancehall of the 90s-->on was influenced by HipHop and Contemporary R&B of the day (which was also influenced by hiphop)


(it's called reggae fusion when they do it)

Listen to delivery by Calypsonians, the early 70s djs like Rankin Joe, and Echo, then post hip hop deejays and hear how the sound and how deejaying changed after the digital era again, then compare hip hop at the same time period.
 

hatealot

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Bronx VS Jamaicans. who came first.

Lets get to the roots. Okay then. Yall nikkas need to stop it.


Jamaicans was ALWAYS apart of our culture. You also have to include my PUERTO RICANS.

Hip Hop. Okay lets go....

Keep Bangin.... them drums

...

Yall re hashing dumb shyt.

Keep it bangin..
 
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L&HH

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So can somebody speak on the accusation that the concept of Verzus come from Dancehall?
It didn't. They're trying to compare it to Soundclashes but I'm pretty sure the Versuz ppl weren't thinking about sound clashes when they did that. Also let's not act like the culture of "battling" isn't ingrained in hiphop.
 

IllmaticDelta

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Bronx VS Jamaicans. who came first.

Lets get to the roots. Okay then. Yall nikkas need to stop it.


Jamaicans was ALWAYS apart of our culture. You also have to include my PUERTO RICANS.

..



were they, really?:jbhmm:


The reason I can say with a straight face that the influence between AfroAmerican music and Jamaican music was in one direction is because the people (jamaicans) from that era will tell you straight up no one (Aframs) wanted to hear that sh1t.

Straight from Herc:







How can you influence another group of people with music from YOUR culture while at the same time having/had to basically hide your heritage from those same people?


Herc on becoming "American":




ovmJA8A.jpg



5hC8Hr0.jpg



one more time:

jHDOQMy.jpg

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Even Bob Marley himself, who worshipped afram music (curtis mayfield) was puzzled about the fact that black americans never took to him:

I’d go so far as to say that outside of the Caribbean islands, Marley’s American legacy revolves more around his popularity among white audiences than black ones. You’re more likely to hear his 1984 compilation Legend playing in a Delta Chi frat house (as I have), or in a club in Buenos Aires (as I have), than at an all-black party in New York City (dream on).


Even during his ’70s heyday — especially during his ’70s heyday — black American audiences never fell particularly hard for the Jamaican superstar. His stature as a world-renown black artist writing and performing from an unapologetically Afrocentric perspective failed to draw them in the way his contemporaries like Gaye and Stevie Wonder did. According to people close to Marley, the lack of widespread support and enthusiasm among African-Americans troubled him tremendously.

He had issues with it, because he wanted African-Americans to hear his message,” his son Ziggy said in a 2012 documentary.


Why the U.S. slept on Marley while he was still with us is a mystery that’s up for conjecture (keep reading for mine). An even greater mystery is why black America never really joined the party en masse. (At least I eventually showed up.)

In the ’70s, a number of notable black artists — Bobby Womack, Lou Rawls, and Teddy Pendergrass, among them — had limited crossover success but were enormously popular with black audiences, which translated to considerably higher peaks on the R&B charts than on the pop charts. Why wasn’t Marley among them?

From 1976 on, he wasn’t significantly more successful on the American R&B charts than he was on the Americans pop charts. In some cases, he was even less so. Legend peaked at No. 18 on the Top 200 album chart but at a mere No. 34 on the R&B album chart, and Rastaman Vibration, his highest-charting effort on both the pop side and the R&B side, peaked on the R&B album chart at No. 11, three notches lower than it did on the Top 200.


Too Jamaican?
As for Marley’s lackluster commercial standing in black America during the ’70s, I’m inclined to point to the foreignness of his music, his low-key performing style (he could be a stunning singer, but his focus wasn’t on coloratura and melisma, those vocal pyrotechniques on which black American music lovers have long placed a high premium), and perhaps, a certain degree of xenophobia over his Jamaican heritage.

Marley’s separate standing with black Americans and white Americans, the latter of whom belatedly embraced him collectively only after the release of Legend, makes more sense when I consider my own American experience as an outsider.

The Mystery of Marley: Why Wasn’t Black America More Into Bob?

also--->Bob Marley Wanted More Black American Fans

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this only backs up what Herc said and this Afram dude said about when people tried to play reggae music in the 1970s around Aframs


 

old pig

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were they, really?:jbhmm:


The reason I can say with a straight face that the influence between AfroAmerican music and Jamaican music was in one direction is because the people (jamaicans) from that era will tell you straight up no one (Aframs) wanted to hear that sh1t.

Straight from Herc:







How can you influence another group of people with music from YOUR culture while at the same time having/had to basically hide your heritage from those same people?


Herc on becoming "American":




ovmJA8A.jpg



5hC8Hr0.jpg



one more time:

jHDOQMy.jpg

.
.


Even Bob Marley himself, who worshipped afram music (curtis mayfield) was puzzled about the fact that black americans never took to him:



The Mystery of Marley: Why Wasn’t Black America More Into Bob?

also--->Bob Marley Wanted More Black American Fans

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this only backs up what Herc said and this Afram dude said about when people tried to play reggae music in the 1970s around Aframs




what does any of this have to do with his statement jamaicans were a part of our culture???

dude you specifically quoted said they were part of our culture NOT that they originated it and he is correct in that statement…the issue arises tho when ppl misinterpret that as saying hip hop originated from jamaican culture/reggae…folks might call it semantics but words have meaning for a damn reason

…and chic in the OP is wrong…yes kool herc who is from jamaica is a hip hop pioneer but that doesn’t translate to hip hop being of jamaican origin or originating from dancehall
 
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