Have y'all seen this Black American flag?

invalid

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Garvey SAID this. His office was named after the original Sinn Fein headquarters, too.

Do you have any other primary sources that reference Garvey saying this?

Because I came across this from the New Republic:

Adding a green stripe to his Universal Negro Improvement Association uniform as a signifier of solidarity with Ireland,


According to this source, a green stripe was added to the UNIA uniform. That’s not the flag.

Pretty much every source that I’ve come across have said the Pan-African colors stand for:

The Pan-African flag's colors each had symbolic meaning. Red stood for blood — both the blood shed by Africans who died in their fight for liberation, and the shared blood of the African people. Black represented, well, black people. And green was a symbol of growth and the natural fertility of Africa.


Which is what I always thought it was.

Additionally, if the conception of the Pan-African flag was influenced by the Ethiopian flag, whose colors were red, yellow, and green, and which influenced a good number of other African National flags, I have a hard time accepting that the original meaning of the green symbolized associations with Ireland.

I can see that being a later development, where black leaders wanted to show solidarity, so an extra ‘layer’ was added to the meaning, but as stated, that seems like a later addition.

I have no problem with the Pan-African flag.

Garvey had some other problematic views. But so did Dubois, Douglas, Washington and virtually all of the black leaders post-Reconstruction.

I see no reason to buy into this “new black“ villainization of Garvey if you understand his full legacy.
 
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Sleepy Floyd

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1200px-Flag_of_the_UNIA.svg.png

Just needs a yellow star
 

audemarzz

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Do you have any other primary sources that reference Garvey saying this?

Because I came across this from the New Republic:




According to this source, a green stripe was added to the UNIA uniform. That’s not the flag.

Pretty much every source that I’ve come across have said the Pan-African colors stand for:




Which is what I always thought it was.

Additionally, if the conception of the Pan-African flag was influenced by the Ethiopian flag, whose colors were red, yellow, and green, and which influenced a good number of other African National flags, I have a hard time accepting that the original meaning of the green symbolized associations with Ireland.

I can see that being a later development, where black leaders wanted to show solidarity, so an extra ‘layer’ was added to the meaning, but as stated, that seems like a later addition.

I have no problem with the Pan-African flag.

Garvey had some other problematic views. But so did Dubois, Douglas, Washington and virtually all of the black leaders post-Reconstruction.

I see no reason to buy into this “new black“ villainization of Garvey if you understand his full legacy.

Green was added to the flag to represent the IRISH and he walked it back later. It's an IRISH FLAG.
 

invalid

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Green was added to the flag to represent the IRISH and he walked it back later. It's an IRISH FLAG.

Coli is keep regurgitating this point. I have come across no sources that say that about the flag. As I posted above, green was added to the UNIA uniform in solidarity with the Irish. Not the flag.

If you have sources that says otherwise, please post. Otherwise, your appeal to reject the Pan-African flag is based on emotion because of it's association with Garvey and not actual fact.
 

audemarzz

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@invalid Marcus Garvey was a huge fan of the irish, sure did volunteer up the entire black population of earth to "be in service"
sure did write letters to the king of england in support of them.
Sure did name his base of operations after theirs. :mjpls:I know him and Kool Herc are part of Jamaicans' "legitimacy" in our affairs, and you want to throw around terms like "NEW BLACK" to keep the old pan african scam/confusion going on but we're not living in the 1950s or 60s. There are more black economic migrants living all around us showing African American who they really are. IT'S OVER.

"Marcus Garvey had an amazing career by any standard. He was Jamaica’s first ever designated national hero who today lies buried in the National Heroes Park in Kingston, the capital. Here in Ireland – and indeed in Jamaica – there is little popular knowledge or appreciation of how this major Jamaican figure was so strongly influenced by Ireland, and especially by the Easter Rising.

As Irish Ambassador to Jamaica, I was first drawn to Garvey by his Irish surname and also when I learned that he had named one of the most prominent buildings in Kingston, Liberty Hall.

Despite the Irish surname, the Garveys acquired their family name from an Irish slave owner. The plantation Garveys were from Ireland. In 1922, Marcus Garvey said:
“An Irish slave-master gave my forbear the name Garvey. He was not allowed to pass his African name to us.”"

pg20-41.jpg


Garvey never strayed far from Irish matters. Just as the 1916 Rising had inspired him, Garvey also had great respect for Irish prisoners on hunger strike.

As Terence MacSwiney’s hunger strike went on and world media attention turned to it, Garvey sent a message to Father Dominic, MacSwiney’s confessor, asking him to pass on to the hunger striker the sympathy of 400 million negroes. He also sent a telegram to the British Prime Minister, asking him to intervene and save MacSwiney’s life. Garvey also understood the powerful symbolism of a man sacrificing his life for a cause through a hunger strike. When MacSwiney died after 74 days on hunger strike, Garvey said:

“Hundreds of thousands of Irishmen have died as martyrs to the cause of Irish freedom . . . I believe that MacSwiney did more for the freedom of Ireland today than probably anything they did for 500 years prior to his death.”

As the Tan War in Ireland grew intense, Garvey continued his efforts to support the Irish side.

After meeting an Irish-American delegation in New York, he sent one of his lieutenants, Reverend Selkridge, to the New York docks, asking black longshoremen to join their Irish-American colleagues in boycotting British ships. This cemented Garvey’s relationship with Irish republican leaders.

The forerunner of the FBI also had their eyes on Marcus Garvey.

Garvey developed a strong relationship with Éamon de Valera, the political leader on the Irish side. Garvey organised a joint meeting in 1920 where both men were due to speak. Garvey was advertised as “Provisional President of Africa” and de Valera as “Provisional President of Ireland”. Unfortunately, the meeting was cancelled. When de Valera returned to Ireland and the Truce was announced, Garvey cabled Dev:

“We, the representatives of 400,000,000 negroes of the world . . . send greetings and pray that you and your fellow countrymen will receive from the hands of the British your merited freedom.”

Garvey also created a flag for the UNIA in 1920 at the height of the Tan War. The colours are black, red and green.
The green was to signify support of the Irish cause. The flag formed the basis of the national flags of several African and Caribbean countries. It is also carried by members of the “Black Lives Matter” movement at demonstrations in the USA but I doubt if many of the participants know about the Irish linkage.
 

audemarzz

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Coli is keep regurgitating this point. I have come across no sources that say that about the flag. As I posted above, green was added to the UNIA uniform in solidarity with the Irish. Not the flag.

If you have sources that says otherwise, please post. Otherwise, your appeal to reject the Pan-African flag is based on emotion because of it's association with Garvey and not actual fact.
HERE'S ANOTHER SOURCE

On Flag Day, Remembering The Red, Black And Green

TO QUOTE: "And it was the Irish struggle for independence that Hill says "unofficially gave Garvey a lot of the political vocabulary of his movement."​

 

audemarzz

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Coli is keep regurgitating this point. I have come across no sources that say that about the flag. As I posted above, green was added to the UNIA uniform in solidarity with the Irish. Not the flag.

If you have sources that says otherwise, please post. Otherwise, your appeal to reject the Pan-African flag is based on emotion because of it's association with Garvey and not actual fact.
Here's ANOTHER source
WHAT DOES THE PAN AFRICAN FLAG LOOK LIKE


quote: "
Another explanation for the trio of colors on the flag proposes that journalist/publisher/activist Marcus Garvey, who founded the Universal Negro Improvement Association as well as the African Communities League, chose the colors in order to represent several international cultural struggles taking place around the world. Primarily the flag portrays the fight of the “Reds of the world”, the Negro cause, and finally the use of green is symbolic of the Irish struggle for independence."
 

audemarzz

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@invalid so, LIBERTY HALL in NY wasn't named after LIBERTY HALL in Dublin, Ireland?
So, this fat clown wasn't writing letters begging the King of England to stop oppressing the IRISH - while black americans were enduring Jim Crow savagery, being hung from trees, and shot down like dogs?
"BBBUT the green fertile pastures of AfriKa" (The K makes it magical).
:mjpls:
:pacspit:
 

audemarzz

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@invalid IT WAS ON THE OFFICIAL UNIA SITE UNTIL THEY WIPED IT (RECENTLY)
Luckily, we have the wayback machine:
UNIA ACL HISTORY: THE RED, BLACK, AND GREEN
Show me the race or the nation without a flag, and I will show you a race of people without any pride. Aye! In song and mimicry they have said, "Every race has a flag but the c00n." How true! Aye! But that was said of us four years ago. They can't say it now....
Alternatively, it has been explained by journalist Charles Mowbray White that Garvey proposed the colours for the following reasons: "Garvey said red because of sympathy for the 'Reds of the world', and the Green their sympathy for the Irish in their fight for freedom, and the Black- [for] the Negro."[
 

invalid

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@invalid Marcus Garvey was a huge fan of the irish

Everyone is aware of this breh. You don't have to keep pointing it out.

HERE'S ANOTHER SOURCE

On Flag Day, Remembering The Red, Black And Green​

TO QUOTE: "And it was the Irish struggle for independence that Hill says "unofficially gave Garvey a lot of the political vocabulary of his movement."​


Taken from the above source:

And green was a symbol of growth and the natural fertility of Africa.

So what is the point of you pointing out that the Irish gave Garvey political vocabulary without pointing out what it says about the flag colors in the same article?
 

invalid

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Here's ANOTHER source
WHAT DOES THE PAN AFRICAN FLAG LOOK LIKE


quote: "
Another explanation for the trio of colors on the flag proposes that journalist/publisher/activist Marcus Garvey, who founded the Universal Negro Improvement Association as well as the African Communities League, chose the colors in order to represent several international cultural struggles taking place around the world. Primarily the flag portrays the fight of the “Reds of the world”, the Negro cause, and finally the use of green is symbolic of the Irish struggle for independence."

You skipped over this part.

History Of The Pan-African Flag​

The 1921 Universal Negro Catechism states, for example, that the red color on the flag is in reference to the blood which must be shed in order for the African race to achieve redemption and liberation. The presence of black clearly relates to the imperial and dignified skin color of those members native to the African race. Lastly, the green band at the bottom of the Pan-African flag is a symbol of the natural wealth and abundance of crops grown in this area of the world.

It says that it was taken from the 1921 UNIA Catechism. Your sources are not getting more primary than that.
 

invalid

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@invalid so, LIBERTY HALL in NY wasn't named after LIBERTY HALL in Dublin, Ireland?
So, this fat clown wasn't writing letters begging the King of England to stop oppressing the IRISH - while black americans were enduring Jim Crow savagery, being hung from trees, and shot down like dogs?
"BBBUT the green fertile pastures of AfriKa" (The K makes it magical).
:mjpls:
:pacspit:

@invalid IT WAS ON THE OFFICIAL UNIA SITE UNTIL THEY WIPED IT (RECENTLY)
Luckily, we have the wayback machine:
UNIA ACL HISTORY: THE RED, BLACK, AND GREEN

Alternatively, it has been explained by journalist Charles Mowbray White that Garvey proposed the colours for the following reasons: "Garvey said red because of sympathy for the 'Reds of the world', and the Green their sympathy for the Irish in their fight for freedom, and the Black- [for] the Negro."[

I get it. You're emotional.
But stop trying to make 'fetch" happen.
 
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