Haitian color caste system

[Biscayne]

Of course...that's my point. Multiracial people being classified black is not a solution in my point of view...it's a bandaid on a deep welt.

However in South Africa, blacks are classified separately from colorored and there are black targeting programs that serve to provide black south africans with opportunities in new south african. However, I am disappointed that the chinese were included in the black classification...recently.

How does that even happen? Now those Chinese get to reep the benefits?

 

[OfTheCross]

@88m3

it's only part of the reason...you gotta look in the mirror too



edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_debt_of_Haiti that's what we were talking about @88m3

 

[88m3]

@88m3

it's only part of the reason...you gotta look in the mirror too

I'm not Haitian. I don't have a lot more to invest in this emotional.

DR is wrong and always will be in my eyes.

I'm not going to be reading this thread.

 

[OfTheCross]

I'm not Haitian. I don't have a lot more to invest in this emotional.

DR is wrong and always will be in my eyes.

I'm not going to be reading this thread.

You bringing DR up like it matters. We were just talking about the Haitian debt and I tagged you in here cause we touch on it in here too

 

[88m3]

You bringing DR up like it matters. We were just talking about the Haitian debt and I tagged you in here cause we touch on it in here too

They're talking about color caste systems.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti_indemnity_controversy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_debt_of_Haiti

The French debt plunged them into a cycle of poverty. They were blackmailed to repay France in return for recognition and the ability to trade with third countries.
They were also threatened with the reimposition of slavery. The whole matter is is inexcusable.
Was there corruption, was there mismanagement of taxes and borrowing? Of course. To pretend the original French demands weren't an extreme hardship that set them on the course they would take is spitting in the face of reality.
In modern times they've also had to deal with the IMF, World Bank, and IDB and everyone knows how that goes.

As far as my understanding of economics and finance goes islands will always be at a serious disadvantage in this age.

 

[OfTheCross]

They're talking about color caste systems.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti_indemnity_controversy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_debt_of_Haiti

The French debt plunged them into a cycle of poverty. They were blackmailed to repay France in return for recognition and the ability to trade with third countries.
They were also threatened with the reimposition of slavery. The whole matter is is inexcusable.
Was there corruption, was there mismanagement of taxes and borrowing? Of course. To pretend the original French demands weren't an extreme hardship that set them on the course they would take is spitting in the face of reality.
In modern times they've also had to deal with the IMF, World Bank, and IDB and everyone knows how that goes.

As far as my understanding of economics and finance goes islands will always be at a serious disadvantage in this age.

They got through that...

From 1957 to 1986 Haiti was ruled by the corrupt and oppressive Duvalier family. Loans incurred during this period alone were estimated to account for approximately 40% of Haiti's debt in 2000, before debt-relief was granted. These funds were used to strengthen the Duvaliers' control over Haiti and for various fraudulent schemes. Large amounts were simply stolen by the Duvaliers.

The current condition is more due to the Duvalier's than the money they had to pay back to France. Although, one could argue the butterfly effect of it all...

 

[BigMan]

I get what you're saying. Of course there was a civilization before it.

But what would you suggest?

They can be totally left to their own accord, they can come up with their own government and economic systems..maybe some locally controlled tribal system with no central government would be to their liking...

or, a group of economically and politically stable countries could "colonize" it, get it up and running and increase the standard of living of the people...

the system rocking right now sure ain't working..

You think Haiti becoming a French colony again would be good how? Howd that work for DR? Hows Martinique and Guadeloupe doing?

What you're suggesting won't happen ever. And if it did happen only famine, war, and more problems would be created

Where do you live @Dip you seem unnecessarily hostile? In Haiti?

I respect that you have Haitian background so you feel like I or anyone writing about Haiti is throwing it under the bus. But every government deserves a fair dose of criticism on where they are failing. It's not in anyway disregarding the uphill battle that Haiti has had to endure. But I am sure you can agree that not holding a government accountable for their actions or inaction is just as deadly as not acknowledging the Western agenda against the first black colony to rebel and defeat its colonisers in the western hemisphere.

If you can't engage and defend your arguments with civility even if you disagree or think that subject is beneath you then leave this thread.

i have Haitian ancestors but i wouldn't consider myself Haitian. but most of the post you are making in here show that you have little knowledge of Haitian culture and history and you're better off taking the time to read up a little more. you came into this thread as if surprised Haiti had colorism issues. last i checked EVERY non white nation had colorism issues. that alone tells me you aren't as knowledgeable as you think. if i come across as hostile and combative that's just how i am.


And i'm not giving the Haitian government a pass. Some of the Haitian posters can probably give more insight but too often the elite Haitians go to France or Miami or screw over the masses in fits of greed. but time and time again outside forces go into Haiti and destabilize it. US not recognizing Haiti til the Civil War, the paying of reparation to France, Germany getting invovled in Hait, MINUSTAH etc. etc.

 

[BigMan]

can yall speak for your own countries instead of making off base comments. No, not every country has a color caste system.

what country doesn't

in damn near every country the poorest people are the darkest skinned

and the people in charge are light skin

 

[88m3]

The current condition is more due to the Duvalier's than the money they had to pay back to France. Although, one could argue the butterfly effect of it all...

You can't ignore the original condition. I answered D's question and I've said the same to you.
You can't attribute the current condition to Duvalier or anything else specifically as a sole cause.
You look petty.

 

[OfTheCross]

You think Haiti becoming a French colony again would be good how? Howd that work for DR? Hows Martinique and Guadeloupe doing?

What you're suggesting won't happen ever. And if it did happen only famine, war, and more problems would be created

.

I think Martinique and Guadeloupe have a better GDP per capita and higher living conditions than Haiti at the moment.

You can't ignore the original condition. I answered D's question and I've said the same to you.
You can't attribute the current condition to Duvalier or anything else specifically as a sole cause.
You look petty.

Woe is me.

Apparently Haiti was doing decently before Duvalier, bruh.




I'm just trying to tell you that you can't blame the condition that it's presently in on the fact that they had to pay France that bullshyt fee. The country got past that and was looking and running nicely for a while.

 

[BigMan]

I think Martinique and Guadeloupe have a better GDP per capita and higher living conditions than Haiti at the moment.



Woe is me.

Apparently Haiti was doing decently before Duvalier, bruh.




I'm just trying to tell you that you can't blame the condition that it's presently in on the fact that they had to pay France that bullshyt fee. The country got past that and was looking and running nicely for a while.

So why is unemployment, crime, and outmigration so high

 

[OfTheCross]

So why is unemployment, crime, and outmigration so high

All those things are high in EU countries as well but that doesn't take away from the fact that it's better to be poor there than in Haiti

 

[OfTheCross]

So why is unemployment, crime, and outmigration so high

All those things are high in certain places in the Americas as well but that doesn't take away from the fact that it's better to be poor there than in Haiti

 

[Yup]

what country doesn't

in damn near every country the poorest people are the darkest skinned

and the people in charge are light skin

not all countries have a color caste system because not all countries have multiracial/ethnic l societies.

 

[Yup]

You can't ignore the original condition. I answered D's question and I've said the same to you.
You can't attribute the current condition to Duvalier or anything else specifically as a sole cause.
You look petty.

I fail to see where that's been the case.