@GilScottHeroin: Luka has a bigger offensive impact than Kareem

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

so say that & leave the goat out the convo*

This is why it's important to take the initial argument in its rightful context:

I've been breaking down AD's game on this board for years now, and have long been trying to get folks to see his standing in the game, during times when nobody a fukk about the Pelicans nor watched their games. Don't come with this nonsense about what's preventing me from understanding his ability and impact.

You wasn't with me shootin' in the gym.

The point is: ball-handlers naturally have more offensive impact than players who don't primarily handle the ball, as they dictate what happens on offense. The only thing that AD has control over is scoring for himself, when the main ball-handler gives him the ball.

For all his skill and ability, he can't run an offense, or to be more specific, he's not used as a piece to run the offense, therefore, he can't control the tempo, playmaking and creating scoring opportunities for his teammates, when his teammates touch the ball, what actions/sets to run, when to generate and capitalize on runs etc. It's why the knock on his game has been centered around his "empty stats" whenever he doesn't make the playoffs, which isn't the case, at all, it's just that his impact and influence only extends so far on the offensive end.

All the impact he has on offense is through scoring for himself when he's given the ball, which as I said, is the same for nearly every single big man who doesn't run the offense, especially big men who aren't prolific from behind the arc, as the 3-ball gives players a impact-bump.

You put a prime Cap in the league right now and give him an identical support cast to Luka's (in relation to position), and he wouldn't be able to have the impact that Luka has on the offensive end.

Since I was defending AD, I had to use an extremity; Ayton wouldn't have sufficed.

All I was doing was defending bigs in today's league from unwarranted criticism. Folks shytting on the likes of Embiid and AD for not having success leading their respective teams, but the same would apply to all-time great bigs of previous eras if they played in this era. They simply wouldn't have the same impact on offense as they did during their day.

AD's lack of success isn't because he isn't a great player - he's just a casualty of the era he's playing in.

It's the very reason why I used Cap as a reference point in the first place. Because he's the best of the best, and even he wouldn't dominate like he did during the 70s/80s.

 

[010101]

This is why it's important to take the initial argument in its rightful context:

thread title is troll fukkery*

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

thread title is troll fukkery*

Ain't nothing new. Casuals trying to get hits taking my posts out of context.

 

[010101]

Ain't nothing new. Casuals trying to get hits taking my posts out of context.

you know damn well you was baiting for that shyte*

 

[Techniec]

Here's the problem with this:

It's proven that post-up plays are less effective/efficient than running PnR; it's proven that 3s are worth more than 2s. Cap's advantage when he was playing was that he was fighting with high-percentages 2s against low-percentage 2s - that's why bigs were never at an efficiency deficient. It's like if there was no 3-pt line, then that's when the pendulum would swing back in the bigs' favour.

The poorest shooting team's 3-pt efficiency is equal to that of a team hitting 2s at 50%. That's what bigs of previous eras would have to compete against. Teams know that they'll never be able to replicate that by running an inside-out offense, which is why almost every single team priortizes the 3-pt shot. You can't do that with the staple of your offense being post-ups. And while Cap was a good passer/playmaker, he wasn't even comparable to the playmaking guards/wings we have today. You'd only be hustling backwards if you let Cap run your offense against the likes of Bron, Steph, Harden, Doncic etc.

Teams would gladly trade Cap post-ups for PnR/3s down the other end. They'd come out on top nearly every single time.

I get what you're saying, and I agree, the odds favour the 3 over the 2, and that explains why the NBA has moved in the direction it has

But again, going back to my previous post, if you're feeding Kareem the rock, he's either scoring at a 55-60% clip or he's dishing it out. Kareem getting the ball doesn't necessary negate the 3. There would be no one in today's NBA who could draw the automatic double better than Kareem. All of the top players today, for the most part, are backcourt or wing guys, and you don't see them getting picked up as soon as they get the ball, unless they make a move

I look at the names you mentioned and respectfully I don't see how running an offence through those guys is any better than running it through Kareem. Curry needs screens, complimentary players etc to work the magic he does.

Harden or LBJ..they're gonna handle the ball and force the issue or kick it out. No different than Kareem, except Bron and Harden are the ball handlers off top, whereas Kareem needs to be fed the ball.

Now I agree that this is an "extra step". But I don't necessarily see this as fatal in any kind of way. Like I said earlier, you just need a competent ball handler to toss it in to Cap.

Not to mention, come playoff time this shyt slows down. Kareem would feast. There's no answer for him. And I can't accept that a player for whom there is no answer, through which everything could run, and I don't see how that's not an ideal set up for any team.

 

[Biscayne]

Man Kareem must have did his grandparents wrong or some shyt

 

[BlackMajik]

Holy shyt this is a real thread lol

 

[Inertia Creeps]

 

[Jplaya2023]

just like im not gonna overreact to luka's game 4, i won't overreact to his game 5. This thread is an overreaction to a small sample size. I just hope luka continues to improve and get better

 

[UpAndComing]

I wonder what Kareem would have done against the Clippers

 

[Squirrel from Meteor Man]

@Gil Scott-Heroin with another monumental L. When Joker goes home tonight it’ll be 2

 

[UpAndComing]

 

[Hoodoo Child]

Oh my god

 

[Professor Emeritus]

@Gil Scott-Heroin with another monumental L. When Joker goes home tonight it’ll be 2

Jokic extended his season for 13 more playoff games after you said that.

Put up a 30-14-4 game with the game-winner to prove you wrong that night, then averaged 25-13-7 on 52/40/82 splits against the Clippers looking like the best player on the court to beat them, and is averaging 26-12-9 on 57/35/83 splits for the season so far this year looking like a legit MVP candidate.

You coulda let GSH catch the L all by himself but you had to give yourself a massive one in the process.

 

[Wild self]

Why you got beef with Cap for? He’s a GOAT franchise legend and the only other player with a legit right to the claim of GOAT.

Golden State fans be legit disrespecting history. And the game as a whole.