No1

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You’re over complicating things, & people who are into conspiratorial ideas and fear mongering will always lean right authoritarian.
That’s not true at all. We had a whole generation of people on the left watching YouTube documentaries believing Bush let the towers fall to gain more power.
 

mastermind

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That’s not true at all. We had a whole generation of people on the left watching YouTube documentaries believing Bush let the towers fall to gain more power.
Exactly. We have a forum of people who believe Russia stole the 2016 election for Trump using bot farms. Its an American issue, not a right or left issue. Americans love conspiracies so much that we ignore the actual horror in our faces.
 

WTFisWallace?

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people who believe Russia stole the 2016 election for Trump using bot farms.

Its an American issue, not a right or left issue. Americans love conspiracies so much

that we ignore the actual horror in our faces.
I feel like this is either conflating or contradicting, maybe a bit of both.

I think there's a difference between "stealing" an election & "influencing" an election thru (subjectively) illegal/treasonous means.



- Nixon advising Vietnam leaders to pause peace/ceasefire talks so that it be a negative for his political opponent, while treason, to me is not "stealing" an election.

- Reagan extending the Iran hostage situation and colluding with various foreign entities.....again fukked up, but not "stealing".



- JFK's team possibly having cats fukk with the ballot numbers? Stealing.
- Bush with the Florida count & the Roger Stone/Brooks Brother/Cuban protest incident? Stealing. Bush's cousin at Fox News calling it? Idk, if that's stealing.
- 2020 Trump calling around & pressuring people to "find" votes as well as Jan 6th? An attempt to steal.
- Won't get into 2024, but I do believe it was both things.



We can say now it's fact that Russian has infiltrated USA's media stream (the obvious hypocrisy that US does similar things to other nations is besides the point right now) . To your own point, we have a significant amount of US citizens who do love conspiracies, on either side. Thought I would not say "either side" throws as much weight into these conspiracies to the point they would vote against their own tangible interests (or use these conspiracies as cover for their bigotedness).

Re-phrase "people who believe Russia stole the 2016 election for Trump using social media bots" to "people who believe Russia influenced the 2016 election for Trump using social media bots".....and you have to what most would seem like an obvious fact. Especially considering Russia believes US influenced Ukraine's election in 2014.





Maybe I'm not aware but what were the mainstream "left" versions of conspiracy machines like Fox News, Joe Rogan, Tate, the red commie scare culture from back in the day, the welfare queen propaganda push, etc. These were all very much mainstream amongst citizens.

The Bush let the towers fall is not the equivalent in terms of prevalence, which is made even more clear by the fact that he won a election after it was confirmed his admin was lying about Iraq/WMD.







With all that said, I agree with yall general point. Left needs a couple of star media outlets (whether that be singular personalities or teams of it like Fox).

It's just that imo, the left has already had those types in Jon Stewart, several youtube personalities, etc.

I think yall are underestimating how easy it is to spread SIMPLE lies with just a headline or 30 second clip and give people a boogeyman that they want...so the messaging all resonates with them and they gon onto spread that sentiment in their circles

Vs spreading truth that can take at minimum 4 minutes to even begin to breakdown and sometimes has complicated "boogeymen" and when I say complicated I mean they would have to attack Dems for fukking people over too.
 

mastermind

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I feel like this is either conflating or contradicting, maybe a bit of both.

I think there's a difference between "stealing" an election & "influencing" an election thru (subjectively) illegal/treasonous means.



- Nixon advising Vietnam leaders to pause peace/ceasefire talks so that it be a negative for his political opponent, while treason, to me is not "stealing" an election.

- Reagan extending the Iran hostage situation and colluding with various foreign entities.....again fukked up, but not "stealing".



- JFK's team possibly having cats fukk with the ballot numbers? Stealing.
- Bush with the Florida count & the Roger Stone/Brooks Brother/Cuban protest incident? Stealing. Bush's cousin at Fox News calling it? Idk, if that's stealing.
- 2020 Trump calling around & pressuring people to "find" votes as well as Jan 6th? An attempt to steal.
- Won't get into 2024, but I do believe it was both things.



We can say now it's fact that Russian has infiltrated USA's media stream (the obvious hypocrisy that US does similar things to other nations is besides the point right now) . To your own point, we have a significant amount of US citizens who do love conspiracies, on either side. Thought I would not say "either side" throws as much weight into these conspiracies to the point they would vote against their own tangible interests (or use these conspiracies as cover for their bigotedness).

Re-phrase "people who believe Russia stole the 2016 election for Trump using social media bots" to "people who believe Russia influenced the 2016 election for Trump using social media bots".....and you have to what most would seem like an obvious fact. Especially considering Russia believes US influenced Ukraine's election in 2014.
What you listed did happen is what I mean when the horrors are starring us in the face.

IN fact, I wouldn't be surprised if in 20 years, if American still exists, we learn that Netenyahu and Trump worked together to troll the Biden administration for a year with Gaza. We know Trump told the GOP members not to vote for that immigration bill that was everything the GOP wanted just so Trump could run on it. Thats what I am saying.

I don't believe a bot farm has enough power to swing an election, particularly the 2016 election. I think Hillary Clinton cost herself that election by being Hillary Clinton, a very bad candidate that was foisted on voters.

Jeb Bush and the Florida GOP conspiring to give Florida to George Bush is an actual real life horror that happened and we shrug off chasing Russian bots.

Its not the same.
 

Outlaw

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IN fact, I wouldn't be surprised if in 20 years, if American still exists, we learn that Netenyahu and Trump worked together to troll the Biden administration for a year with Gaza. We know Trump told the GOP members not to vote for that immigration bill that was everything the GOP wanted just so Trump could run on it. Thats what I am saying.
@King Kreole. Interesting :coffee:
 

wire28

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This isn’t an argument worth having because your mind is already made up.

Maybe for @jj23’s sake besides being on stage with Liz Cheney and hoping to create a permission structure where life long republicans felt comfortable voting for a democrat, you can list out specific policies she changed and promoted at rallies, on social media and in her commercials that prove your point that she turned into a republican and pushed those ideas right before the election

And on Bernie, he wouldn’t let anyone disrespect Lina khan and also wouldn’t let anyone disrespect Joe Biden being that he was one of the last major politicians defending him until he dropped out.

The bare minimum anyone should have voted for her is because of the threat Trump is. You apparently were smart enough to figure that out but willing to give everyone else a pass because you’re mad at the dems.

If she and the dems are as weak feckless and politically malleable as you all like to say they are you should have worked for them to win so you could have them in power and use your own influence through people led campaigns to force them to do what you wanted.
@jj23 I found this simply scrolling IG laying in bed procrastinating getting ready for work. Hopefully he found time to send you some items outlining how Kamala completely switched her policies once she started appearing on stage with Liz. Seems like a bit of rewriting history going on to fit his narrative. This video apparently is from the end of October, FWIW.



@Outlaw we need that left leaning brainwashing machine more than we know if we got shyt on video and people still arguing she turned into Ronald Reagan
 
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☑︎#VoteDemocrat

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And they were right Bernie was the only path to beating trump in 2016.
Wish casting. There no evidence of this outside of hypothetical polls that dont matter until there was a real matchup possible. Bernie also would lose all the republicans that Trump turned off in 2016 and he loses more swing states.
 
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