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I'm not even going to address this poster directly because he's incapable of not derailing the thread with multiple irrelevant posts, but I just want everyone else to notice what he's saying here. Because it's a pure distillation of the reason Democrats are such fukking losers. Instead of doing an iota of critical self-reflection, he reflexively bends his back and blames the public. You know, the actual most important stakeholder in a democratic society. Because he has no fundamental understanding of what politics actually is, he wants us to blame the people instead of the powerful.

This is one of the load-bearing diseases of the Modern Liberal mind. They fundamentally detest democracy as much as their right-wing counterparts. Which is why when they fail to create a compelling case to the public for why their vision for the future is better, they immediately give up a start blaming the public for not being wowed by that reheated slop of a policy platform Kamala Harris ran on. They believe the public is subordinate to the Democratic Party. Which is also why they have so easily appropriated the right-wing FAFO mentality as their response to the worst of the harm Trump is enacting on the public. Until this completely servile mentality is eradicated from the decision makers in the Democratic Party, it will continue to spiral into irrelevancy.
Voters aren't "subordinate" to the Democratic Party, nor is the voting public to blame for everything. The point is that when someone like Vance says something ridiculous, the conversation should be chiefly about *him.*

It's not "detesting democracy" to recognize that voters still have agency in their decisions, either. People made the conscious choice to vote for Trump and Vance, and instead of scrutinizing *his* comments, we're trying to shift the discussion to how it's somehow the Democrats fault. That's unnecessary deflection.

We all, or at least, we all *should* understand that Democrats need to do a hell of a better job at offering actual policies to people to turn out their vote, and that that's a discussion worth having. But that should be separate from whether we should let people like Vance off the hook by immediately pivoting to blaming Democrats every time a Republican says or does something indefensible.
 

Blackfyre

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JD Vance just met with Alice Weidel, the head of the anti-immigration, nationalist Alternative for Germany party.

Vance is the most senior U.S. official ever to meet with a leader from the party.
14 February 2025 at 15:10
 

Robbie3000

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Sure she made some minor mistakes but my point is that she should have won by default. She didn’t make any major mistakes that should have cost her the election.

Before you come back with Gaza, you don’t know how many votes she would have lost after the collective of the media, AIPAC bought dems would have come out and rebuked her.

Trump has come out and said he’s going to ethnically cleanse Gaza and has lost zero material support. The amount of people that care passionately about the fate of the Palestinians is less than you think unfortunately

Y’all got it. :hubie:

It’s like debating with religious fanatics. A big waste of time.
 

Loose

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Sure she made some minor mistakes but my point is that she should have won by default. She didn’t make any major mistakes that should have cost her the election.

Before you come back with Gaza, you don’t know how many votes she would have lost after the collective of the media, AIPAC bought dems would have come out and rebuked her.

Trump has come out and said he’s going to ethnically cleanse Gaza and has lost zero material support. The amount of people that care passionately about the fate of the Palestinians is less than you think unfortunately
She made several major mistakes outside of things out of her control.

Sidelining waltz
Running a pro Wallstreet corporatist agenda
Not disowning biden on the ecomomy which sucks
Refusing to meet with Gaza protesters, while having several zionist surrogates go to swing states
Running around with Liz cheney

 

Outlaw

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Correct me if I’m wrong but Germany and France have some if not all the social programs that leftist want Democrats to deliver on but that hasn’t stopped the far right parties in those countries from gaining momentum.

We need to have a better understanding on why large portions of these western countries have an affinity for fascism and it’s not because liberal “fail to deliver”

Blaming democrats or liberals is such a lazy cop out because it goes against the narrative leftist want to believe in that economic class interest trumps racial class interests
 

Pressure

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Correct me if I’m wrong but Germany and France have some if not all the social programs that leftist want Democrats to deliver on but that hasn’t stopped the far right parties in those countries from gaining momentum.

We need to have a better understanding on why large portions of these western countries have an affinity for fascism and it’s not because liberal “fail to deliver”

Blaming democrats or liberals is such a lazy cop out because it goes against the narrative leftist want to believe in that economic class interest trumps racial class interests
Guys having a hard time accepting that inconvenient part of human nature.
 

MeachTheMonster

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Correct me if I’m wrong but Germany and France have some if not all the social programs that leftist want Democrats to deliver on but that hasn’t stopped the far right parties in those countries from gaining momentum.

We need to have a better understanding on why large portions of these western countries have an affinity for fascism and it’s not because liberal “fail to deliver”

Blaming democrats or liberals is such a lazy cop out because it goes against the narrative leftist want to believe in that economic class interest trumps racial class interests
People are nasty and selfish and easily manipulated.
 

Outlaw

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She made several major mistakes outside of things out of her control.

Sidelining waltz
Running a pro Wallstreet corporatist agenda
Not disowning biden on the ecomomy which sucks
Refusing to meet with Gaza protesters, while having several zionist surrogates go to swing states
Running around with Liz cheney


Everything you mention are marginal mistakes and pales in comparison to the colossal mistakes the Trump campaign made.

Take any of Trumps blunders and apply it to a hypothetical scenario of Kamala making it, we both know it would be curtains for her campaign.

The median American voter in 2024 is fukking retarded and they should be blamed
 

Loose

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Correct me if I’m wrong but Germany and France have some if not all the social programs that leftist want Democrats to deliver on but that hasn’t stopped the far right parties in those countries from gaining momentum.

We need to have a better understanding on why large portions of these western countries have an affinity for fascism and it’s not because liberal “fail to deliver”

Blaming democrats or liberals is such a lazy cop out because it goes against the narrative leftist want to believe in that economic class interest trumps racial class interests
Fascist movements in European have gained momentum due to several economic downturns over the last decade plus. When periods of austerity happen it's easier to blame a subset of people for the citizens problems. Unlike the Europeans, our "liberal" parties would basically be considered conservatives in Europe, and haven't provided 1/10th of the benefits
 

Outlaw

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Fascist movements in European have gained momentum due to several economic downturns over the last decade plus. When periods of austerity happen it's easier to blame a subset of people for the citizens problems. Unlike the Europeans, our "liberal" parties would basically be considered conservatives in Europe, and haven't provided 1/10th of the benefits
You’re proving my point. The liberal parties have delivered in those European countries yet it’s not enough to stop the far right from rising in power. Economic issues isn’t the reason the far right is growing in power either, it comes down to racial class grievances
 

wire28

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Y’all got it. :hubie:

It’s like debating with religious fanatics. A big waste of time.
Yes yall religious devotion to blaming Biden for the actions of the current administration and the people that voted for it is almost as cult like as yall devotion was to Bernie. Please take @Loose with you and stick to TLR
 

wire28

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You’re proving my point. The liberal parties have delivered in those European countries yet it’s not enough to stop the far right from rising in power. Economic issues isn’t the reason the far right is growing in power either, it comes down to racial class grievances
In the past I’d say they already know that but at this point I’m not so sure it’s smart to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they know that
 

Regular_P

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Correct me if I’m wrong but Germany and France have some if not all the social programs that leftist want Democrats to deliver on but that hasn’t stopped the far right parties in those countries from gaining momentum.

We need to have a better understanding on why large portions of these western countries have an affinity for fascism and it’s not because liberal “fail to deliver”

Blaming democrats or liberals is such a lazy cop out because it goes against the narrative leftist want to believe in that economic class interest trumps racial class interests
People are fukking stupid and easily manipulated. Everything works much better in smaller countries. There's too many people now.

If we split the US into 6+ smaller countries, each region would be able to get what they want and move quicker. Our current system is untenable and it boggles my mind nobody wants to admit this and take steps towards correcting this.
 
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