Religion/Spirituality For atheists: What would God have to do to prove to you that he's real?

[Everythingg]

Wilful ignorance gets ignored.

Not by me. I see that you have "willful ignorance"

Assumptions. Not watching your video because it doesn't pertain to the matter isn't the same as ignoring political ramifications. Nice try.

Umm... whats said in the video, is mentioned in the bible. I thought you said you read the bible?

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

I don't think if there was truly a God, he'd doom me to some fukked up hell

Good, 'cause that ain't what is described in the text......unless you read Danté's Inferno.​

 

[Everythingg]

Yes, you continued being vague. You never answered what you thought about Bush's comment or what point you were trying to make. You just kept repeating the same question, and further asserted that you weren't being vague, or rambling incoherent nonsense. I mean there was just so much wrong with the post, that I didn't feel like addressing them all. The fact remains that at that point you had asked the same question several times, without making a coherent point, or relating it to the topic at hand. You said I don't realize what humanity is facing... well fukking spell it out! Stop being so cryptic, and say it.

You can think friend. You've continuously alluded to me being a "conspiracy theorist" in this thread and another. Well what "conspiracy" has to do with whats mentioned in the video? If you really dont know then I guess thats my fault for assuming you would at least have an idea of what I was referring to. But yea they have plans to take control of this world. To a further extent that then they already have. With technological increase, so does their control because people rely on it.Thats why all this "globalization" is going on because certain people want a world where the people rely on them. Thats why we're in astronomical debt here in the US based on a BS system. ALL PLANNED my friend. Think about it philosophically. Do you REALLY think that we're here on earth just to serve a system that enriches the already wealthy? I mean allegedly there are TRILLIONAIRES that exist. What are they doing with all that money? Dont you see the kind of power they can hold?

If you wanted to be of help you would make your position plain and as clear as possible to people. Responding to questions by ignoring it and asking another question isn't progressing. I don't understand how you can think it's helpful to when asked why you think, for example, society is more immoral than it was in the past, you post an excerpt from a former president, and ask what we think it means. Don't you see how that doesn't follow? That you're not building anything close to a coherent argument? If you think that makes sense, or answers the question at all, then you are more dense than I realized.

I think I have friend. When I posted that video I assumed that as an ADULT who has accused me of being a "conspiracy theorist" on at least 2 occasions, would have an idea of what I was pointing to. Along with the verse from Psalms that was posted. I guess not. I

To answer your question (which I answered in another thread) of why its getting worse, its because of those things happening. With all theses "advances" I look at Africa getting exploited. I look at South America getting exploited. I see certain countries going to other countries and doing shady business. You may say "these things have always happened" but not forever my friend. And now as we are more connected, people are trying to take advantage of that. Tower of Babel all over again. We have an adversary at work here on earth friends. And it doesnt want us to benefit spiritually and eventually it will be physically. As in life will be harder to survive. Do you want this for your descendants? You dont think that the bankers that somehow are allowed print money outta thin air FOR COUNTRIES will EVENTUALLY up the ante? They serve something evil my friend. And that "evil" is coming soon I would think. If they didnt, we probably wouldnt see the world in the condition it is in. Thats why they're placing all those "illuminati" signs in the music videos. And the movies. But you gotta pay attention. Now you might say this is incoherent but if you dont seek you'll never find. And alot of those youtube conspiracy theorists be spouting hot air, but wheres theres smoke theres fire.

Heres some truth. Israel existing is prophecy fulfilled. Why did the foreign nations fulfill it? Well, God Almighty used foreign nations when dealing with Israel in the bible several times. King Cyrus was the king of Persia, and helped/allowed Israel to build the second temple. Nebuchadnezzar was used to punish Israel in Babylon. And if I remember correctly, King Solomon hired a foreign nation to build the first temple. So we can see that God uses whoever to fulfill what God wants. Now of course they have their own plans in what they want to do. Thats whats in the prophets my friend. Its the reason why Israel has that pagan star on their flag and do all those things they do to the Palestinians and now the Sudanese. Because they're not obeying the God of their ancestors.

 

[Cheesy]

does fulfilling prophecies count as proof? Time to see the Truth of the Dharma and become a Buddhist my friends

He has said: “Two thousand five hundred years after my parinirvāṇa, the true dharma will be propagated in the land of the red-faced men.”

Later this prophecy was also spoken by Padmasambhava with a small twist:

When the iron bird flies and horses run on wheels the Tibetan people will be scattered like ants across the face of the world, and the dharma will come to the land of the red-faced man.

The Buddha''s life and death is estimated to be somewhere around 400-480 BC, it's about 2500 years later, tell me, has Buddhism indeed arrived in a land that used to be ruled by folks oftend described as having red skins?

not wanting you to actually convert here, just showing that prophecy might not be your best bet to use as 'proof'

now go on trying to convince each other their entire worldview is wrong

 

[NoMayo15]

You can think friend. You've continuously alluded to me being a "conspiracy theorist" in this thread and another. Well what "conspiracy" has to do with whats mentioned in the video? If you really dont know then I guess thats my fault for assuming you would at least have an idea of what I was referring to. But yea they have plans to take control of this world. To a further extent that then they already have. With technological increase, so does their control because people rely on it.Thats why all this "globalization" is going on because certain people want a world where the people rely on them. Thats why we're in astronomical debt here in the US based on a BS system. ALL PLANNED my friend. Think about it philosophically. Do you REALLY think that we're here on earth just to serve a system that enriches the already wealthy? I mean allegedly there are TRILLIONAIRES that exist. What are they doing with all that money? Dont you see the kind of power they can hold?

You kept highlighting the fact that Bush used the phrase "new world order". That phrase carries a lot of baggage and is harked by conspiracies theorists...

A lot of what you say sounds like a conspiracy to me. Who is this "they" trying to control the world? Sure, people in power tend to want to maintain that, just like people with money tend to want to have more of it. I don't disagree with you on that. But I don't see how it's relevant to anything else in this thread.

I don't have any belief that man is born with a purpose. We are born within a system our antecedents helped form, both directly and indirectly. And because of the nature of man, we have what we have today. The REASON we are in debt is because we spend more than we take in in income. Yes, there was some planning in that, but a considerable amount of people helped that happen... not just one or a small group of people.

I'm not sure if there are trillionaires... from what I recall the wealthiest people are worth several hundred billion each. Each of them does with their money different things, but they all probably have the same goals as you and I. Yes, money is power. How is any of this necessarily detrimental to the welfare of you and I though?

To answer your question (which I answered in another thread) of why its getting worse, its because of those things happening. With all theses "advances" I look at Africa getting exploited. I look at South America getting exploited. I see certain countries going to other countries and doing shady business. You may say "these things have always happened" but not forever my friend. And now as we are more connected, people are trying to take advantage of that. Tower of Babel all over again. We have an adversary at work here on earth friends. And it doesnt want us to benefit spiritually and eventually it will be physically. As in life will be harder to survive. Do you want this for your descendants? You dont think that the bankers that somehow are allowed print money outta thin air FOR COUNTRIES will EVENTUALLY up the ante? They serve something evil my friend. And that "evil" is coming soon I would think. If they didnt, we probably wouldnt see the world in the condition it is in. Thats why they're placing all those "illuminati" signs in the music videos. And the movies. But you gotta pay attention. Now you might say this is incoherent but if you dont seek you'll never find. And alot of those youtube conspiracy theorists be spouting hot air, but wheres theres smoke theres fire.

Heres some truth. Israel existing is prophecy fulfilled. Why did the foreign nations fulfill it? Well, God Almighty used foreign nations when dealing with Israel in the bible several times. King Cyrus was the king of Persia, and helped/allowed Israel to build the second temple. Nebuchadnezzar was used to punish Israel in Babylon. And if I remember correctly, King Solomon hired a foreign nation to build the first temple. So we can see that God uses whoever to fulfill what God wants. Now of course they have their own plans in what they want to do. Thats whats in the prophets my friend. Its the reason why Israel has that pagan star on their flag and do all those things they do to the Palestinians and now the Sudanese. Because they're not obeying the God of their ancestors.

What do you mean by African/South American countries "getting exploited"? Businesses using cheaper labor abroad to more easily succeed economically? If it didn't happen forever, then name a time in history where men didn't use other men for selfish financial gain or personal benefit. Also, by the way, this process is mutually beneficial, but I digress.

How does this relate to Tower of Babel?

What do you mean "Up the ante? Serve something evil? Spooky language. Doesn't really mean anything. We have a central banking system that prints money, and also takes money out of circulation. Its actions help to stabilize the economy.

What do you mean by God used foreign nations? Are you saying that God interfered with the free will of men to convince them to support a zionist movement? Does God have such a power, and if so, how do you know he's doing it?

Instead of believing a god changed the minds of people in order to fulfill a several thousand year old prophecy, I think it's much more likely that people believed these stories were true, this god was real, and doing this would please their god. Explain to me why you think the former is a more reasonable belief.

 

[Everythingg]

You kept highlighting the fact that Bush used the phrase "new world order". That phrase carries a lot of baggage and is harked by conspiracies theorists...

A lot of what you say sounds like a conspiracy to me. Who is this "they" trying to control the world? Sure, people in power tend to want to maintain that, just like people with money tend to want to have more of it. I don't disagree with you on that. But I don't see how it's relevant to anything else in this thread.

I don't have any belief that man is born with a purpose. We are born within a system our antecedents helped form, both directly and indirectly. And because of the nature of man, we have what we have today. The REASON we are in debt is because we spend more than we take in in income. Yes, there was some planning in that, but a considerable amount of people helped that happen... not just one or a small group of people.

I'm not sure if there are trillionaires... from what I recall the wealthiest people are worth several hundred billion each. Each of them does with their money different things, but they all probably have the same goals as you and I. Yes, money is power. How is any of this necessarily detrimental to the welfare of you and I though?

Ummm exactly my point with your first sentences. You knew what I was getting at whether you agreed with it or not. And Of course it sounds like "conspiracy". The definition ( a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful) fits that.

Its relevant because what they're planning is mentioned in the bible my friend. And its all about control under the guise of "freedom". For instance, look at this card game:

Spoiler

More at the link:
http://rense.com/general95/illum.htm

So its coincidence that a game in the 90's called ILLUMINATI somehow predicted specific events that happened 10's of years later? I dont think so. But Im sure you'll try to find some reason to argue against this just as you have everything I've said.

Thats pretty sad if you think we're here for no purpose my friend. Either way I dont think we are here to make other men that already hold massive amounts of wealth EVEN wealthier. A few corporations own the majority of companies. For instance in news, 4 or 5 companies own the majority of the media. Conflict of interest?

And no the reason we are in debt is because of the FED. I mean you really think that a private bank that can print money at its own will, couldnt BUY campaigns? What about the bailouts? Positive or negative of the gov't to somehow bail out corporations, but not bail out its people that its supposed to be protecting? How does one country that is supposed to be protecting freedoms, go to other countries and instill puppet leaders for their own benefit when its supposed to be "democratic"? Remember Gaddafi? Lumumba? Malcolm X? MLK? In other words, anytime one comes and tries to UNITE people to the benefit of the people, they're eliminated.

What do you mean by African/South American countries "getting exploited"? Businesses using cheaper labor abroad to more easily succeed economically? If it didn't happen forever, then name a time in history where men didn't use other men for selfish financial gain or personal benefit. Also, by the way, this process is mutually beneficial, but I digress.

Mutually beneficial? Have you seen the downtrodden in both continents? You think thats "mutually" beneficial? Both are being raped by outside interests (and even in somecases, their own countries). I guess thats easy to say from the comfort of your home. Even from the comfort of my home I feel for my brethren and sisters in those nations that are exploited and held in poverty.

How does this relate to Tower of Babel?

Globalization. The world becoming ONE under ONE gov't just like the tower of babel.

What do you mean "Up the ante? Serve something evil? Spooky language. Doesn't really mean anything. We have a central banking system that prints money, and also takes money out of circulation. Its actions help to stabilize the economy.

What do you mean by God used foreign nations? Are you saying that God interfered with the free will of men to convince them to support a zionist movement? Does God have such a power, and if so, how do you know he's doing it?

Instead of believing a god changed the minds of people in order to fulfill a several thousand year old prophecy, I think it's much more likely that people believed these stories were true, this god was real, and doing this would please their god. Explain to me why you think the former is a more reasonable belief.

Its not "spooky" language but the truth my friend. All you gotta do is research the shyt. Where theres smoke theres fire. And oh please you REALLY trust the FED? Why? Why do you trust people that can print money out of thin air to "stabilize" economies which is make believe anyways? Up the ante as in they have plans for this world. And they're UPPING the ante to accomplish these plans. But if you dont even look into it, I guess you wont see. People will be led to slaughter like the sheep they are. And they're laughing at us for it...

I just explained it friend. God Almighty used (in one instance) Babylon to punish the Israelites. Meaning God caused Babylon to come take Israel captive. Foreign nation that worshiped idols in the eyes of Israel. So this happened AGAIN, with the reinstitution of Israel. And these people that reinstituted it do not serve the God of Abraham. That is clear by their ACTIONS.

Nah. Because I'd ask (again) how Daniel, Ezekiel and Isaiah KNEW that these things would happen. Meaning Israel still being somewhat intact when they wrote their writings, and them prophesying that it woulld cease to exist and then in the future AGAIN exist. How would they know that? How would the writer of Genesis know that Abraham's name would be great? How did Jeremiah know that people would go to the Hebrews to learn about their God? Prophecy after prophecy fulfilled my friend.

 

[noon]

Umm... whats said in the video, is mentioned in the bible. I thought you said you read the bible?

What's the point of the video? Why does it pertain to proof of God? Why does it become my concern rather than a conversation you had with someone else?

 

[Everythingg]

does fulfilling prophecies count as proof? Time to see the Truth of the Dharma and become a Buddhist my friends

He has said: “Two thousand five hundred years after my parinirvāṇa, the true dharma will be propagated in the land of the red-faced men.”

Later this prophecy was also spoken by Padmasambhava with a small twist:

When the iron bird flies and horses run on wheels the Tibetan people will be scattered like ants across the face of the world, and the dharma will come to the land of the red-faced man.

The Buddha''s life and death is estimated to be somewhere around 400-480 BC, it's about 2500 years later, tell me, has Buddhism indeed arrived in a land that used to be ruled by folks oftend described as having red skins?

not wanting you to actually convert here, just showing that prophecy might not be your best bet to use as 'proof'

now go on trying to convince each other their entire worldview is wrong

Well explain the prophecy my friend. Red skin? I would think that would be Native Americans. But who is that referring to?

And give me your answer. What significance does it hold that a tiny nation (in comparison with the Romans, Greeks, Egyptians, and Sumerians that ruled the world at one time or another) have their God held in reverence over the other gods of these nations?What significance does it hold that the father of these people (Abraham) is honored by billions of people (or in other words his name is great in the world just as Genesis 12 says)? What significance does it hold that people went to the Hebrews to learn about their God (Zechariah 8:23)? What significance does it hold that Israel ceased to exist and then were regathered to their land like Ezekiel 36:22-24 says?

Theres NOTHING to this? I disagree my friend. But some people like to cover their eyes then claim they dont see

 

[Everythingg]

What's the point of the video? Why does it pertain to proof of God? Why does it become my concern rather than a conversation you had with someone else?

I just told you its mentioned in the bible. Is the bible not based on God? So how would something that was said to happen ALONG time ago not apply to the convo we're having? But nevermind friend. Dont worry bout it

 

[noon]

Doesnt matter. To act as if its "wrong" to have anger is a weird way of thinking.But my question wasnt about "anger" because God doesnt always answer with "anger". Though if you get a lifetime of chances, than you get what you get if you were warned in advance.

Besides, Im sure you punish your child right?

Wrong to act with anger? Ever heard of being the bigger person? God not being "always angry" doesn't mean he's never angry so making that point goes no where.

Do I punish my children? Not often. They were well brought up well so they're rarely out of line. If I do have to punish them it's usually a small one where they get to learn how to do right next time. I don't give them eternal punishment.

My parenting skills > God's parenting skills apparently.

 

[noon]

I just told you its mentioned in the bible. Is the bible not based on God? So how would something that was said to happen ALONG time ago not apply to the convo we're having? But nevermind friend. Dont worry bout it

The video of Bush talking is mentioned in the Bible? And proves God is real how?

 

[Cheesy]

Well explain the prophecy my friend. Red skin? I would think that would be Native Americans. But who is that referring to?

well obviously the common interpretation is Native Americans, making the land the American continent. As you can see at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Buddhist_temples#United_States there are plenty temples to prove that Buddhism has arrived on the continent and this prophecy has come true. Would you claim there is NOTHING to this?
Personally while I do consider myself a buddhist I don't care about prophecies so much, look at Nostradamus, looking back at history you can always find writing that could be interpreted as a prophecy therefore I don't like to hold to them as proof of anything. I wouldn't back my faith up with the above prophecy, because for me, it ain't about that.

 

[Everythingg]

The video of Bush talking is mentioned in the Bible? And proves God is real how?

You still havent watched the 34 second video. So how do you know what Im even referring to? YOU DONT lol. Well you do because Im sure you read what I typed in this thread.

 

[Everythingg]

My parenting skills > God's parenting skills apparently.

God provides existence for you. What have you provided for your kids that wasnt here before them?

 

[Everythingg]

well obviously the common interpretation is Native Americans, making the land the American continent. As you can see at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Buddhist_temples#United_States there are plenty temples to prove that Buddhism has arrived on the continent and this prophecy has come true. Would you claim there is NOTHING to this?
Personally while I do consider myself a buddhist I don't care about prophecies so much, look at Nostradamus, looking back at history you can always find writing that could be interpreted as a prophecy therefore I don't like to hold to them as proof of anything. I wouldn't back my faith up with the above prophecy, because for me, it ain't about that.

Actually no I wouldnt claim theres NOTHING to that. Nor would I claim there is NOTHING to buddhism. But its more than prophecies friend. The situation surrounding the bible is COMPLETELY different that the situation(s) of other texts/religions. Prophecies is just one thing mentioned.

I wouldnt say there is NOTHING to a 1000 year old book getting several things on different concepts "nothing". But to each his own. I mean I've posted at least 5 different prophecies that have clearly been fulfilled. Its on the reader to take this, and dig deeper. Most of all (just as Buddhism) its about a relationship with oneself and (unlike general Buddhism) with God. But one has to seek that. And if one doesnt seek, they cannot find.