Religion/Spirituality For atheists: What would God have to do to prove to you that he's real?

[NoMayo15]

No my friend. For one, SAYING one thing but doing another is not being about what one is SAYING. Thats being a liar. Second, saying "god" does not mean that one is referring to the same Being (who is the Source of All Existence) that I am. Some people call a variety of things that are not "G-D", "god". As well, not making overt legislation is proof of the belief that they don't promote it. I mean you see gay marriage being passed through legislation right? Is that not the OPPOSITE of the values presented in the bible? It not being in the media, is also proof of it.

Again, I don't know what you're talking about. Who's saying one thing and doing another?

Sure, not everyone has the same god belief as you, no shyt. That's not proof. Some would like to make such laws, but again, we have this overarching law in the US which prohibits leaders from making, for example, Christian-specific laws. Gay marriage laws are the result of a populous becoming more secular, and an application of that aforementioned law.

You sure you didnt know what I meant mainstream rap? The rap music that the majority of the people listen to is what I meant. This rap music that has billions of dollars sunk into it to promote it. Yet, I do not hear the music representing values of God. But according to you, the people that instituted the state of Israel (which was RICH men using nations. Look it up) believe in and serve the God of Abraham. I'm saying this sentiment doesnt match the reality I'm seeing.

No, I don't know what you meant by saying our leaders promote things that conflict with your religious belief, namely rap music. What leaders promote rap music? There is no connection between mainstream rap and zionism in 1948 as far as I can see.

Corporations and your leaders are working towards the same goal. You said you know lobbying exists? You think its your "average" man and woman dropping stacks on politicians? Plus, I was showing you was that you are offered "choices" that arent really choices at all. That was with products. I already told you about the same thing being the case with the media. Thats without mentioning how many presidents we have had that are related at the least distantly. But you're covering your eyes and closing your ears to the "mystery" of what Im saying...

Nah, what you're saying makes no sense to me.

Well as I said, you could do some reading on REAL politics and not the one the media presents that you said . The Vatican has an obviously shaken history as well. And prophecy has to do with it my friend.

Isaiah 46:10
I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, 'My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.'

So when you see something happened, that was said to happen, thats an example of PROOF. Not the only one though.

I don't think you understand what proof is. Anyone can make a prediction and claim they got it from some divine source. That doesn't mean it's true.

No theres been one example brought from buddhism that doesn't even have a definitive source if you research it. Not to mention a separate interpretation than the one he presented. I understand you DONT want to believe though so if thats where you want to go with your free will then I suppose thats where you'll go with it. I would think understanding the existence of a Creator that is able to destroy all the existence would be important(consider the amount of nations that somehow have a story of the earth being flooded). Especially with the facts presented in this thread. But I guess for your case its not important.

The existence of a Creator has not be demonstrated.

Billions of people have came to a tiny nation of Israel (when compared to other major civilizations like Persia, Greece, Egypt, Rome etc...) to learn about their God is simply what Im getting at. The idols of the other nations, have not done what the God of Israel have done. Which is why when I ask for a prophecy from another religion I get a flimsy one at best.

I think your prophecies are flimsy at best too. The fact that more people today happen to believe your myths is irrelevant.

I've already told you about the spirits behind other religions. All created or simply images. Bring a specific one and I can go further if you would like.

And ok lets talk about we'll say the "son of man" since "Jesus" wasnt his name (so anyone coming back as "Jesus" would be suspect but not guilty). Why would you expect the "son of man" to come back ahead of the timeline he gave for his return?

Depending on the particular belief, Hinduism has a creator god. Ahead of the timeline? I'm just saying he hasn't come back.

Of course. Its you I'm worried about my friend.

Sure you are.

I've pointed out that his father (A REPRESENTATIVE in the US Senate) supporting Hitler.

Except you didn't show this. The only thing you demonstrated, if the claim is true, is that his father was willing to do business with someone who might have supported Hitler. Maybe he did something bad, but you make it as if he led Jews into gas chambers himself. What you're saying is a misleading and a bit dishonest.

From P. Bush's wiki:

Bush was one of seven directors (including W. Averell Harriman) of the Union Banking Corporation (holding a single share as a director), an investment bank that operated as a clearing house for many assets and enterprises held by German steel magnate Fritz Thyssen. In July 1942, the bank was suspected of holding gold on behalf of Nazi leaders. A subsequent government investigation disproved those allegations but confirmed the Thyssens' control, and in October 1942 the United States seized the bank under the Trading with the Enemy Act and held the assets for the duration of World War II. According to journalist Joe Conason, Prescott Bush's involvement with UBC was purely commercial and he was not a Nazi sympathizer. The Anti-Defamation League and historian Herbert Parmet agreed with that assessment.

Plus this happened well before he served in the US Congress, so how would it have anything to do with corruption? Besides, the point is anyone can look at one (possible) mistake in a person's life and dismiss any good they've done. You ignore the work Bush did for the United Negro College Fund and Planned Parenthood (which, you're probably against anyway). But you even take it a step further and accuse a person's child of being untrustworthy because of something the parent did. That's just asinine. If you wanna talk about why we shouldn't trusted the intentions of previous politicians, we should talk about specifically what they believe, and what they've did individually.

But atheists waste both of these as well right? So what are believers missing out on by being not being atheist? It cant be anything concerning "wasting time and money" because atheists do this in one way or another as well. Another unanswered question

The difference is, assuming you're wrong, they don't do so because they believe in imaginary beings and flimsy prophecy claims. Atheists generally don't tithe, so the money given to the church so it can function and preach can be used in an infinitely more productive way. Even if its spent on a lotto ticket, at least the potential to win the lotto is a real tangible thing. If you're wrong, you used a substantial amount of resources towards this thing that isn't even demonstrable. That's why it's called a wager; what you're doing is essentially gambling to receive the best possible outcome when you die. The difference is at least we KNOW people receive money after winning the lotto. We don't know people go to this great place with God after dying.

 

[Everythingg]

Again, I don't know what you're talking about. Who's saying one thing and doing another?

Sure, not everyone has the same god belief as you, no shyt. That's not proof. Some would like to make such laws, but again, we have this overarching law in the US which prohibits leaders from making, for example, Christian-specific laws. Gay marriage laws are the result of a populous becoming more secular, and an application of that aforementioned law.



No, I don't know what you meant by saying our leaders promote things that conflict with your religious belief, namely rap music. What leaders promote rap music? There is no connection between mainstream rap and zionism in 1948 as far as I can see.



Nah, what you're saying makes no sense to me.

Gay marriage laws are proof that the leaders are not advocating the laws and judgements of the God of Abraham. No matter what reasoning you give behind it.

Oh and yea it makes no sense because you dont have an understanding of politics. Do you even know who was behind the funding of Israel? You still dont understand that the media is controlled by a few companies? You still dont understand that lobbying is what occurs in our gov't? This aint rocket science friend. Time spent researching should be suffice. Ya know like how many president or at least distantly related? In a free democracy?

I don't think you understand what proof is. Anyone can make a prediction and claim they got it from some divine source. That doesn't mean it's true.

Yet when I ask you how they knew (while Israel was still a nation) that it would one day cease to exist, and then be regathered to existence, you have no answer? This is what I mean by CHOOSING not to believe.

The existence of a Creator has not be demonstrated.

By the time this happens in the manner you want it, it will be too late for you to do anything about it.

I think your prophecies are flimsy at best too. The fact that more people today happen to believe your myths is irrelevant.

And yet you couldnt do anything to explain how they were invalid. I can explain how that prophecy doesnt even have a legitimate source to it. Making it hard to pinpoint the time period its referring to. What do you have? Nothing?

And I didnt say because people believed it meant its true. But here you are projecting.. AGAIN

Depending on the particular belief, Hinduism has a creator god. Ahead of the timeline? I'm just saying he hasn't come back.

Yes a god with an image is not to be worshiped.

And yea I thought you would bring a failed prophecy. Guess not

Sure you are.

Of course but not only you.

Except you didn't show this. The only thing you demonstrated, if the claim is true, is that his father was willing to do business with someone who might have supported Hitler. Maybe he did something bad, but you make it as if he led Jews into gas chambers himself. What you're saying is a misleading and a bit dishonest.

From P. Bush's wiki:


Plus this happened well before he served in the US Congress, so how would it have anything to do with corruption? Besides, the point is anyone can look at one (possible) mistake in a person's life and dismiss any good they've done. You ignore the work Bush did for the United Negro College Fund and Planned Parenthood (which, you're probably against anyway). But you even take it a step further and accuse a person's child of being untrustworthy because of something the parent did. That's just asinine. If you wanna talk about why we shouldn't trusted the intentions of previous politicians, we should talk about specifically what they believe, and what they've did individually.

Supporting an enemy of the country you later REPRESENT is a negative thing my friend. No matter how much you want to defend someone that couldnt care less for your life. If I was a blood, and my fellow brethren of my gang found out that I used to support crips, dont you think they'd take offense at this?

Spoiler

How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power | World news | The Guardian

The debate over Prescott Bush's behaviour has been bubbling under the surface for some time. There has been a steady internet chatter about the "Bush/Nazi" connection, much of it inaccurate and unfair. But the new documents, many of which were only declassified last year, show that even after America had entered the war and when there was already significant information about the Nazis' plans and policies, he worked for and profited from companies closely involved with the very German businesses that financed Hitler's rise to power. It has also been suggested that the money he made from these dealings helped to establish the Bush family fortune and set up its political dynasty.

AND

While there is no suggestion that Prescott Bush was sympathetic to the Nazi cause, the documents reveal that the firm he worked for, Brown Brothers Harriman (BBH), acted as a US base for the German industrialist, Fritz Thyssen, who helped finance Hitler in the 1930s before falling out with him at the end of the decade. The Guardian has seen evidence that shows Bush was the director of the New York-based Union Banking Corporation (UBC) that represented Thyssen's US interests and he continued to work for the bank after America entered the war.

Now why would I trust someone that has connections with Hitler in the governance of my country? His son has his own struggles look up the Iran Contra contraversy he was involved in. Then his grandson has his own questionable activities in Iraq and Afghanistan. Thats without mentioning US involvement. I was just showing you why I didnt trust the ONE person that stated the NWO in the video. Imperialism is more than enough for me to see whats going on.

The United Negro Fund and Planned parenthood examples being brought up as the "good" that has been done is laughable Like I said, turn off the TV, and get news from unbiased sources.

The difference is, assuming you're wrong, they don't do so because they believe in imaginary beings and flimsy prophecy claims. Atheists generally don't tithe, so the money given to the church so it can function and preach can be used in an infinitely more productive way. Even if its spent on a lotto ticket, at least the potential to win the lotto is a real tangible thing. If you're wrong, you used a substantial amount of resources towards this thing that isn't even demonstrable. That's why it's called a wager; what you're doing is essentially gambling to receive the best possible outcome when you die. The difference is at least we KNOW people receive money after winning the lotto. We don't know people go to this great place with God after dying.

This is gibberish. Atheists waste time and money just as you say believers are. This "waste of time and money" can be about anything from cigarettes to strippers and heroin. So saying one waste is better than another is irrelevant. What you're supposed to be bring are THINGS they are missing out on by not being atheists. They're not missing out on wasting of time and money. Surely you have something better than this that believers are missing out on right?

 

[NoMayo15]

Gay marriage laws are proof that the leaders are not advocating the laws and judgements of the God of Abraham. No matter what reasoning you give behind it.

Oh and yea it makes no sense because you dont have an understanding of politics. Do you even know who was behind the funding of Israel? You still dont understand that the media is controlled by a few companies? You still dont understand that lobbying is what occurs in our gov't? This aint rocket science friend. Time spent researching should be suffice. Ya know like how many president or at least distantly related? In a free democracy?

Do you read anything before you hit submit? I don't see how any of that is relevant the video you posted.

Yet when I ask you how they knew (while Israel was still a nation) that it would one day cease to exist, and then be regathered to existence, you have no answer? This is what I mean by CHOOSING not to believe.

I already explained this. Just because you don't understand or agree with the answer is another thing. It's irrelevant because a prediction cannot prove divinity.

By the time this happens in the manner you want it, it will be too late for you to do anything about it.

Well if that's how your god is then that's the way it's gonna be. He could do something that would convince, but would rather let my soul go to hell. I don't really find a being that would do that worthy of worship anyway.

And yet you couldnt do anything to explain how they were invalid. I can explain how that prophecy doesnt even have a legitimate source to it. Making it hard to pinpoint the time period its referring to. What do you have? Nothing?

Omg are you serious? The same exact thing could be made to your Israel prophecy.

And I didnt say because people believed it meant its true. But here you are projecting.. AGAIN

Well then why even bring up the fact that billions of people came to believe something from a tiny nation, as you put it? You're so full of it.

Yes a god with an image is not to be worshiped.

And yea I thought you would bring a failed prophecy. Guess not

Why not? People have tried to create images of the Abrahamic god too ... does that disprove it? Of course not.

I was talking about prophecies that have not been fulfilled. There are failed prophecies though.

Supporting an enemy of the country you later REPRESENT is a negative thing my friend. No matter how much you want to defend someone that couldnt care less for your life. If I was a blood, and my fellow brethren of my gang found out that I used to support crips, dont you think they'd take offense at this?

Spoiler

How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power | World news | The Guardian

The debate over Prescott Bush's behaviour has been bubbling under the surface for some time. There has been a steady internet chatter about the "Bush/Nazi" connection, much of it inaccurate and unfair. But the new documents, many of which were only declassified last year, show that even after America had entered the war and when there was already significant information about the Nazis' plans and policies, he worked for and profited from companies closely involved with the very German businesses that financed Hitler's rise to power. It has also been suggested that the money he made from these dealings helped to establish the Bush family fortune and set up its political dynasty.

AND

While there is no suggestion that Prescott Bush was sympathetic to the Nazi cause, the documents reveal that the firm he worked for, Brown Brothers Harriman (BBH), acted as a US base for the German industrialist, Fritz Thyssen, who helped finance Hitler in the 1930s before falling out with him at the end of the decade. The Guardian has seen evidence that shows Bush was the director of the New York-based Union Banking Corporation (UBC) that represented Thyssen's US interests and he continued to work for the bank after America entered the war.

Now why would I trust someone that has connections with Hitler in the governance of my country? His son has his own struggles look up the Iran Contra contraversy he was involved in. Then his grandson has his own questionable activities in Iraq and Afghanistan. Thats without mentioning US involvement. I was just showing you why I didnt trust the ONE person that stated the NWO in the video. Imperialism is more than enough for me to see whats going on.

That article says exactly what I posted. Sounds like the firm saw a financial benefit and worked with Thyssen ... this happened as Hitler was rising to power, and before we had declared war on Germany. They STOPPED working with Thyssen before the 1940's for some undisclosed reason. I don't know why, but maybe the UBC saw the things the Nazi party was doing, saw Thyssen was working to help them and turned against him. That's like accusing me of supporting wife murder because I worked with the late Johnny Cochran. All these sources say there is no evidence that Bush was a Nazi sympathizer. Most likely the company was only motivated by money. Just because someone has business associations with someone who turns out to have shady political beliefs doesn't mean they are also of the same beliefs. Again, I have my own beefs with the Bush family, but I hate your retarded reasoning even more.

The United Negro Fund and Planned parenthood examples being brought up as the "good" that has been done is laughable Like I said, turn off the TV, and get news from unbiased sources.

Still doesn't prove he was a Nazi-sympathizer like you suggest, or that he was untrustworthy, or wanted to cause harm.

This is gibberish. Atheists waste time and money just as you say believers are. This "waste of time and money" can be about anything from cigarettes to strippers and heroin. So saying one waste is better than another is irrelevant. What you're supposed to be bring are THINGS they are missing out on by not being atheists. They're not missing out on wasting of time and money. Surely you have something better than this that believers are missing out on right?

But some wastes of time ARE demonstrably better than others ... depending on how you define "better" ... and what you consider wasting time.

Atheists aren't trading one waste of time & money for another. If they do choose to waste time & money, they're trading one benefit/outcome that is not certain for an outcome that is. Giving that 10% towards a charity that actually has a demonstrable benefit is always better than giving to the church which does not. Suppose someone feels guilty about sex because of religious teaching? What if they spent their entire lives worrying about and asking forgiveness for an impulse that's completely natural? What if someone felt contraception was bad because it was taught by their religion? What if they had 5 kids because they didn't think it was right to prevent pregnancies? Think of the mental and financial anguish that is potentially caused because of a lie. Suppose one of those kids happen to be gay, and the parents decide to disown him/her because their religion says it's wicked? There's a multitude of things that a humanist atheist wouldn't have to deal with. What they GAIN is an absence of potential physical and emotional torment built solely on traditional and scripture.

 

[Everythingg]

Do you read anything before you hit submit? I don't see how any of that is relevant the video you posted.

Well then remain asleep as I've said because thats what you're choosing because all of what I said is interconnected. But if you're not gonna research it well wait for it to hit you or your descendants across the head. Probably you though as progress is ramping up lately.

Well if that's how your god is then that's the way it's gonna be. He could do something that would convince, but would rather let my soul go to hell. I don't really find a being that would do that worthy of worship anyway.

You're choosing. God sent you some help and you chose to ignore it. YOUR fault. Its not God sending you to hell but you choosing to go by not seeking the truth. If thats where you're headed. God could end up deciding to save anyone or everyone no matter what they deserve. But I would not go into judgement with that type of mindset.

Seek and you shall find. If not, thats yo asphalt.

Omg are you serious? The same exact thing could be made to your Israel prophecy.

So you dont know where the prophecy of Israel was written down? You cant deduct the SOURCE of the prophecy being in the bible?

Now, the source of the "buddhist" prophecy? Unknown. The time period it was written? Unknown. Even the interpretation of it? UNKNOWN. So you're incorrect in saying its the SAME thing.

Well then why even bring up the fact that billions of people came to believe something from a tiny nation, as you put it? You're so full of it.

Im just showing you the significance of Israel and their God over the gods of other nations. Remember when you were alluding that they were the same? And yet you cant find what I'm bringing of Israel, from these other nations. It says something my friend. Whether (as you told me I think) you choose to accept it or not.

Why not? People have tried to create images of the Abrahamic god too ... does that disprove it? Of course not.

Actually yes. If anybody has an image of the God of Abraham, that disproves that they're worshiping the God of Abraham. It disproves that they're talking about the Source of All Creation if they think that something created by the hands of man is where their worship should be directed.

That article says exactly what I posted. Sounds like the firm saw a financial benefit and worked with Thyssen ... this happened as Hitler was rising to power, and before we had declared war on Germany. They STOPPED working with Thyssen before the 1940's for some undisclosed reason. I don't know why, but maybe the UBC saw the things the Nazi party was doing, saw Thyssen was working to help them and turned against him. That's like accusing me of supporting wife murder because I worked with the late Johnny Cochran. All these sources say there is no evidence that Bush was a Nazi sympathizer. Most likely the company was only motivated by money. Just because someone has business associations with someone who turns out to have shady political beliefs doesn't mean they are also of the same beliefs. Again, I have my own beefs with the Bush family, but I hate your retarded reasoning even more.



Still doesn't prove he was a Nazi-sympathizer like you suggest, or that he was untrustworthy, or wanted to cause harm.

No it doesnt say what you posted. Here lets try again:

Spoiler

The debate over Prescott Bush's behaviour has been bubbling under the surface for some time. There has been a steady internet chatter about the "Bush/Nazi" connection, much of it inaccurate and unfair. But the new documents, many of which were only declassified last year, show that even after America had entered the war and when there was already significant information about the Nazis' plans and policies, he worked for and profited from companies closely involved with the very German businesses that financed Hitler's rise to power. It has also been suggested that the money he made from these dealings helped to establish the Bush family fortune and set up its political dynasty

You read the last 2 sentences right? Not to mention their assets wouldnt have been seized had they STOPPED working with them when they became enemies of the state so to say. What I've said, is its hard to trust someone who's father had dealings with Hitler. Its hard to trust someone who's son has been on RECORD about lying about its involvement in Iraq. Someone that had been convicted of war crimes. Thats without his own (George HW's) questionable dealings in itself. Its without mentioning the questionable connection of the Bush family and oil tyc00ns in Saudi Arabia. Theres plenty of reason to distrust them and their dealings. The GREATER picture is US's shady involvement in foreign countries. Countries such as Cuba, Venezuela, Syria just to name a few where they supported (allegedly) rebels looking to overthrow gov't. THATS why one should not trust them. When one sees them SAY one thing but do another, THATS why they shouldnt trust them. What I brought with the Prescott/Hitler connection, was a reason to NOT automatically trust the Bush family (since thats who was in the video). Now if they come and do something to exemplify why one should trust them (and its laughable that you consider Planned Parenthood and the United Negro College fun as this) then thats one thing. But even thats a stretch just going off past history.

But some wastes of time ARE demonstrably better than others ... depending on how you define "better" ... and what you consider wasting time.

Atheists aren't trading one waste of time & money for another. If they do choose to waste time & money, they're trading one benefit/outcome that is not certain for an outcome that is. Giving that 10% towards a charity that actually has a demonstrable benefit is always better than giving to the church which does not. Suppose someone feels guilty about sex because of religious teaching? What if they spent their entire lives worrying about and asking forgiveness for an impulse that's completely natural? What if someone felt contraception was bad because it was taught by their religion? What if they had 5 kids because they didn't think it was right to prevent pregnancies? Think of the mental and financial anguish that is potentially caused because of a lie. Suppose one of those kids happen to be gay, and the parents decide to disown him/her because their religion says it's wicked? There's a multitude of things that a humanist atheist wouldn't have to deal with. What they GAIN is an absence of potential physical and emotional torment built solely on traditional and scripture.

Why would I have to define "better" when you're the one that is quantifying what "waste" is better than another? If you're not, then you're saying that atheists do not waste their time and money? That would be a lie and incorrect. Unless you are, for whatever reason, under the impression that atheists get the most out of their lives while never having a wasteful giving a wasteful dollar or minute. Me defining what a waste is is also a "waste"

The rest of your post has to do with sins as I alluded to earlier. That was my first conclusion and you disagreed. But here you are now, bringing up sins which is in relation to what I said in the first place. I actually thought you would bring something tangible (such as an activity or behavior) but I guess not.

 

[NoMayo15]

You're choosing. God sent you some help and you chose to ignore it. YOUR fault. Its not God sending you to hell but you choosing to go by not seeking the truth. If thats where you're headed. God could end up deciding to save anyone or everyone no matter what they deserve. But I would not go into judgement with that type of mindset.

But I'm not choosing. If I could, I'd choose to go to heaven, but it's not that simple is it? This theology makes hard to believe claims, unbelievable claims, and threatens eternal punishment because I'm skeptical of incredible stuff. How is that just? It's like if I put a gun to your head, and demanded that you fall in love with me, could you force yourself to do so? Under those circumstances, probably not. Are you deserving of being shot in the head because you can't sexually love someone you aren't attracted to? This type of victim blaming is what turns some people off to Christianity.

Seek and you shall find. If not, thats yo asphalt.

Whatever you gotta tell yourself so that your god doesn't seem like the a$$hole he is (according to dogma).

So you dont know where the prophecy of Israel was written down? You cant deduct the SOURCE of the prophecy being in the bible?

Now, the source of the "buddhist" prophecy? Unknown. The time period it was written? Unknown. Even the interpretation of it? UNKNOWN. So you're incorrect in saying its the SAME thing.

I thought you quoted the book of Daniel for this prophecy, but perhaps I was wrong.

I'm just showing you the significance of Israel and their God over the gods of other nations. Remember when you were alluding that they were the same? And yet you cant find what I'm bringing of Israel, from these other nations. It says something my friend. Whether (as you told me I think) you choose to accept it or not.

You haven't said anything significant of Israel nor the god they worship. Again, how is the fact that a lot of people now believe in this god relevant to the validity of the dogma?

Actually yes. If anybody has an image of the God of Abraham, that disproves that they're worshiping the God of Abraham. It disproves that they're talking about the Source of All Creation if they think that something created by the hands of man is where their worship should be directed.

They don't worship the image, it's just artwork.

No it doesnt say what you posted. Here lets try again:

Spoiler

The debate over Prescott Bush's behaviour has been bubbling under the surface for some time. There has been a steady internet chatter about the "Bush/Nazi" connection, much of it inaccurate and unfair. But the new documents, many of which were only declassified last year, show that even after America had entered the war and when there was already significant information about the Nazis' plans and policies, he worked for and profited from companies closely involved with the very German businesses that financed Hitler's rise to power. It has also been suggested that the money he made from these dealings helped to establish the Bush family fortune and set up its political dynasty

You read the last 2 sentences right? Not to mention their assets wouldnt have been seized had they STOPPED working with them when they became enemies of the state so to say. What I've said, is its hard to trust someone who's father had dealings with Hitler. Its hard to trust someone who's son has been on RECORD about lying about its involvement in Iraq. Someone that had been convicted of war crimes. Thats without his own (George HW's) questionable dealings in itself. Its without mentioning the questionable connection of the Bush family and oil tyc00ns in Saudi Arabia. Theres plenty of reason to distrust them and their dealings. The GREATER picture is US's shady involvement in foreign countries. Countries such as Cuba, Venezuela, Syria just to name a few where they supported (allegedly) rebels looking to overthrow gov't. THATS why one should not trust them. When one sees them SAY one thing but do another, THATS why they shouldnt trust them. What I brought with the Prescott/Hitler connection, was a reason to NOT automatically trust the Bush family (since thats who was in the video). Now if they come and do something to exemplify why one should trust them (and its laughable that you consider Planned Parenthood and the United Negro College fun as this) then thats one thing. But even thats a stretch just going off past history.

Again, hyperbolic language. He didn't work with Hitler bu-- FINE! The Bush family isn't to be trusted. So explain what the new world order is, and why it's dangerous.

[/quote]Why would I have to define "better" when you're the one that is quantifying what "waste" is better than another? If you're not, then you're saying that atheists do not waste their time and money? That would be a lie and incorrect. Unless you are, for whatever reason, under the impression that atheists get the most out of their lives while never having a wasteful giving a wasteful dollar or minute. Me defining what a waste is is also a "waste"

The rest of your post has to do with sins as I alluded to earlier. That was my first conclusion and you disagreed. But here you are now, bringing up sins which is in relation to what I said in the first place. I actually thought you would bring something tangible (such as an activity or behavior) but I guess not.[/QUOTE]

No, what I said, or at least meant, was, depending on what you consider a waste, some "wastes" are better than others. If you are spending time and money actively promoting a lie, a false worldview, you've wasted your one and only life. You could have been doing things that brought you pleasure, and ultimately added some real tangible benefit.

Yeah, but where is it written that caring for a gay child a sin? Using contraception? Like it or not a lot of actual harm is being done to people under the guise of "preventing sin".

 

[Everythingg]

But I'm not choosing. If I could, I'd choose to go to heaven, but it's not that simple is it? This theology makes hard to believe claims, unbelievable claims, and threatens eternal punishment because I'm skeptical of incredible stuff. How is that just? It's like if I put a gun to your head, and demanded that you fall in love with me, could you force yourself to do so? Under those circumstances, probably not. Are you deserving of being shot in the head because you can't sexually love someone you aren't attracted to? This type of victim blaming is what turns some people off to Christianity.

Yes you are choosing. Just as you're CHOOSING to ignore all thats been said in this thread for your current outlook on things.Theres nothing "unbelievable" about God existing my friend. Just as theres no gun to your head my friend. You're making the decision not to follow God's judgements and commandments and yet nothing has happened. That is, yet. Eventually, it will. Now lets go with your scenario anyways. If you're trying to live, do you think with a gun to your head it would be best to follow the wishes of the gunholder or go against them?

Its pretty transparent when you think of it. You're here on the Creator's playground. Now you can follow suit, or you can follow your own way. Following "suit" leads to salvation but following your own way leads to destruction. Eternal punisment isnt a consequence that most are gonna get. Some will though Im sure.

Whatever you gotta tell yourself so that your god doesn't seem like the @sshole he is (according to dogma).

Im not telling myself that. I have found. Im telling you to look because you havent yet. Not only when it comes to God based on this conversation but politics as well. But dont take this as me acting like I've learned all. I have things that I need to learn and brush up on as well.

I thought you quoted the book of Daniel for this prophecy, but perhaps I was wrong.

No I didnt quote Daniel for this prophecy as (to my recollection) Daniel isnt one of the prophets that prophesied about the restoration of Israel. Nonetheless if I did, thats a source you can go look at and see. There is some understanding about when it was written as well.

The same cannot be stated about the prophecy from "buddhism". You originally stated the cases were the same and I was showing you how that was not the case.

You haven't said anything significant of Israel nor the god they worship.

I have you just choose to not accept it.

They don't worship the image, it's just artwork.

So that "artwork" isnt a representation of the god they worship? Yes or no?

Again, hyperbolic language. He didn't work with Hitler bu-- FINE! The Bush family isn't to be trusted. So explain what the new world order is, and why it's dangerous.

I've already explained it my friend. I've explained the corporations in connection with the media. I've told you about the dollar having a pyramid from Egypt on it and this same period being in a variety of music videos. I've told you about the egyptian monuments in your capitol. The idol from babylon as the statue of liberty. These things dont get there by accident but MEAN something. So I've told you ALOT of things that point to the NWO. What you SHOULD do (but havent and may not) is start with what has been said, and actually investigate the claims of "conspiracy theorists". Heck look to disprove it. Then come back and explain why its false and irrelevant. Or even if you dont want to bring what you've learned to this thread, learn for yourself. You have gotten an EXTENSIVE warning so its now on you breh.

No, what I said, or at least meant, was, depending on what you consider a waste, some "wastes" are better than others. If you are spending time and money actively promoting a lie, a false worldview, you've wasted your one and only life. You could have been doing things that brought you pleasure, and ultimately added some real tangible benefit.

Yeah, but where is it written that caring for a gay child a sin? Using contraception? Like it or not a lot of actual harm is being done to people under the guise of "preventing sin".

You and my SUBJECTIVE opinions of what is a waste and what isnt and which waste is better than another is irrelevant. The point is that atheists waste time and money just as you say believers waste time and money. In different ways, yes. But they both do it so the believers arent missing out on anything. Atheists can spend time promoting lies and false woldviews as well. Look at the brethren in the military. The only way what you originally said is true, is if atheists do not waste time and money. But the thing is not even you believes this. Or am I wrong here?

So you really want me to show where the bible implies to care for your children? Contraception is not a problem according to what is written. But people that follow the religious institutions that peddle this stuff, are not following God. And we are discussing followers of God correct?

 

[Fervid]

 

[Everythingg]

Revelation 6:15
15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains.

 

[Vashti]

Why do you think he's a man?

Are you trolling? The bible refers to God as a Him, and he also refers to the Church, Israel, and Judah as His bride.

 

[Vashti]

If god can talk to Moses, Mary and Noah, why can't he talk to us?

Maybe you should start by humbling yourself, reading your bible, and asking him into your life before your try comparing yourself to a man who lead his whole nation out of bondage, a woman that gave birth to a messiah, and a man who saved himself and his family from a planet-wide flood.

Jeremiah 29:13
"And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart."