Final fantasy XVI (Official Thread) ensure spoilers are wrapped in spoiler tag.

[winb83]

YOU aren't interested in it. No one is telling you to play it or anything. But to discount them when talking about recent FF is absurd.

I'm not going to speak to something I have no awareness of. I'm talking about single player traditional games in the series. If anything those MMOs are outliers and have little to do with the quality of the single player traditional games. That's a whole different product category under the umbrella of the series titles. People who play MMOs are into them for completely different reasons than single player games.

If I start talking about quality Persona games I'm not gonna start talking about Persona 4: Dancing All Night either.

If I'm absurd for saying that so be it.

 

[Gizmo_Duck]

It takes a lot of goalpost moving to claim the FF series is somehow being outdone by other JRPG’s


There will never be a universe where Tales of, Xenoblade, Persona, Nier, and even DQ are selling as much as FF. A Final Fantasy game is still an event, and this arbritary definition of “hardcore” JRPG fans don’t matter outside of your sub reddits.

 

[tripleaamin]

I'm not going to speak to something I have no awareness of. I'm talking about single player traditional games in the series. If anything those MMOs are outliers and have little to do with the quality of the single player traditional games. That's a whole different product category under the umbrella of the series titles. People who play MMOs are into them for completely different reasons than single player games.

If I start talking about quality Persona games I'm not gonna start talking about Persona 4: Dancing All Night either.

If I'm absurd for saying that so be it.

This example makes no sense because that clearly is a spinoff of a main entry game. Meanwhile FF XIV is literally the 14th entry in the FF series so clearly the devs themselves consider it a mainline entry in the series.

Like I said before if you don't like MMO's that is fine nobody forcing you to like it. But when you say the last well received FF was XII that is objectively false.

 

[winb83]

FFXV wasn’t even the last Final Fantasy game that came out

And I find it hilarious that you continue to throw words like ‘casual’ around when you yourself can’t commit to playing FFXIV because it takes too much of a commitment. Seems like a very casual thing to say

Yeah it was the last new mainline release in the series. A remake of an already existing title is not a new mainline game it's a remake. People have already played the original game and already have feelings about it or attachments to it.

As for XIV I guess the question is if you have zero interest in doing something is the reason you don't play it the lack of ability to commit or is it the fact that you're uninterested in it. I don't really have an interest in playing any multiplayer games not just that particular one.

For a guy that throws around condescending terms like weeb the fact that you find the term casual so offensive is laughable. There's nothing wrong with being a casual fan of anything. I'm a casual fan of plenty of stuff. I would even say I'm a casual gamer. The games I play are heavily concentrated in JRPGs but outside of that I don't play much else.

 

[Gizmo_Duck]

Yeah it was the last new mainline release in the series. A remake of an already existing title is not a new mainline game it's a remake. People have already played the original game and already have feelings about it or attachments to it.

As for XIV I guess the question is if you have zero interest in doing something is the reason you don't play it the lack of ability to commit or is it the fact that you're uninterested in it. I don't really have an interest in playing any multiplayer games not just that particular one.

For a guy that throws around condescending terms like weeb the fact that you find the term casual so offensive is laughable. There's nothing wrong with being a casual fan of anything. I'm a casual fan of plenty of stuff. I would even say I'm a casual gamer. The games I play are heavily concentrated in JRPGs but outside of that I don't play much else.

So becuase you’re not interested in it you’re gonna pretend it doesn’t exist? Lol

You realize the leap of logic you’re taking in saying the last well received final fantasy was 20 years ago when there have been countless examples provided to you that prove otherwise, some within just recent years. Now FF7 Remake doesn’t count because its based on another game, but also has its own original storyline.



You’d also have to ignore 12/zodiac age (my top 3 FF game) to continue to jump to that conclusion.

At best you could say FFXIII and its sequels and 15 weren’t well received which is two games and not the latest games to release in the franchise

 

[winb83]

It takes a lot of goalpost moving to claim the FF series is somehow being outdone by other JRPG’s


There will never be a universe where Tales of, Xenoblade, Persona, Nier, and even DQ are selling as much as FF. A Final Fantasy game is still an event, and this arbritary definition of “hardcore” JRPG fans don’t matter outside of your sub reddits.

Persona 5 and Royal's scores are higher than all those games. Xenoblade 3's score is equal to VII Remake which also has the benefit of being a remake of one of the most popular JRPGs of all time. Dragon Quest XI S has higher score than all those games.

So which is it? quality or sales? I never argued that the games don't sell well. I'm also not equating quality and sales.

 

[Gizmo_Duck]

Persona 5 and Royal's scores are higher than all those games. Xenoblade 3's score is equal to VII Remake which also has the benefit of being a remake of one of the most popular JRPGs of all time. Dragon Quest XI S has higher score than all those games.

So which is it? quality or sales? I never argued that the games don't sell well. I'm also not equating quality and sales.

Its a combination of critical acclaim, sales, and brand power. None of those series encompasses all of those things like Final Fantasy.

Each of those games maybe had one entry that broke into the mainstream, and by break into the mainstream we are talking one entry that scored along with one of the best FF games, or had sales that even broke over 2 million. As much as people talk about those games they aren’t system sellers.

You can even try and downplay FF15 again, but the truth is as much as you can say it was a flop it was still one of the best selling entries in the series and it still launched to critical acclaim, thats the brand power of Final Fantasy. Even when they release mediocre games they still become the topic of conversation.

There’s really no metric Final Fantasy has faltered in outside of the perception of the crowd you consider yourself a part of which is damn near irrelevant to the greater discussion of modern JRPGs.

Final Fantasy is still the most popular franchise outside of Pokemon, in terms of quality over a number of titles and sales

 

[The Mad Titan]

Shoulda coulda woulda, cry more nerd. FF7 remake sold like hotcakes just like FF7 remake, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12 did. 16 will be fine and dandy. You are so full of shyt.

The fact that this is what you got out of my whole post about FF as a series being casual speaks volumes. You really can't speak objectively with yall so it's whatever.

Listing a bunch of games from old that where exclusive one of which I listed as the reason for helping Playstation becoming the powerhouse it is, doesn't mean that ff16 will do the same thing in todays climate. Especially when the series INCLUDING what you listed has been multiplat for some years and expanded to those just beyond a playstation.

My point was I was agreeing with Winbe about the FF series growing into the casual mans jrpg of choice now and how that correlates to it being on multiplatforms. Making them exclusive is counterintuitive for the brand.

FF16 has a lot stacked up against it, even as a causal mans jrpg. The amount of money they supposedly let him work with crazy high, and he got that privilege because of how he turned ff14 around and into a golden goose. But a objectively GOOD mainline console Final fantasy hasn't released on console since FFX.
FF16 has to release on a next gen console, off the hills of ff15 which was plagued with issues and problems so much so they had to pretty much pull the same thing they did with 12, casual don't forget and true RPG fans don't forget... fortunately true rpgs fans are diehard.



I have faith in Yoshi P over any and everything else. But if this game under performs aka doesn't meet squares stupid high expectations it's not going to do anything but stunt the growth and potential for one of my all time favorite series and the last thing I want is that to bleed over into FF7R series.

 

[winb83]

So becuase you’re not interested in it you’re gonna pretend it doesn’t exist? Lol

You realize the leap of logic you’re taking in saying the last well received final fantasy was 20 years ago when there have been countless examples provided to you that prove otherwise, some within just recent years. Now FF7 Remake doesn’t count because its based on another game, but also has its own original storyline.



You’d also have to ignore 12/zodiac age (my top 3 FF game) to continue to jump to that conclusion.

At best you could say FFXIII and its sequels and 15 weren’t well received which is two games and not the latest games to release in the franchise

Were you not playing video games in the PS2 era? Final Fantasy 12 was not a beloved title in the series. The fan reception to it was mixed at best. If anything the love for it suddenly jumped after people played 13 and 15 then went back to 12 and realized it's way better than both of those. Back when it was released originally 12 was considered part of the decline of the series. That's why you look at that Metacritic score of a PS2 game and see it's a 7.6 a complete disconnect from the actual review rating.

The reality is the critical reception of Final Fantasy games is often divorced from the fan reception. Final Fantasy has reached a AAA level where even a bad game isn't gonna get a bad score from general reviewers. Hence 13 sits maybe 3 points lower than Zodiac Age but fans will tell you 13 is a turd.

Lastly 13, it's sequels, and 15 are 4 games in the series not 2. They also account for the last 13 years of single player new releases (not a remake or remaster of a prior game that was already released) so that's a long time and has set a certain tone.

 

[Gizmo_Duck]

Were you not playing video games in the PS2 era? Final Fantasy 12 was not a beloved title in the series. The fan reception to it was mixed at best. If anything the love for it suddenly jumped after people played 13 and 15 then went back to 12 and realized it's way better than both of those. Back when it was released originally 12 was considered part of the decline of the series. That's why you look at that Metacritic score of a PS2 game and see it's a 7.6 a complete disconnect from the actual review rating.

The reality is the critical reception of Final Fantasy games is often divorced from the fan reception. Final Fantasy has reached a AAA level where even a bad game isn't gonna get a bad score from general reviewers. Hence 13 sits maybe 3 points lower than Zodiac Age but fans will tell you 13 is a turd.

Lastly 13, it's sequels, and 15 are 4 games in the series not 2. They also account for the last 13 years of single player new releases (not a remake or remaster of a prior game that was already released) so that's a long time and has set a certain tone.

So 13 and its sequels count but not FF7 Remake, or 14 and its expansions. FF7 isn’t a remaster or port, its a completely new game in the franchise thats based on another game, its more of a sequel then a remake like dead space or last of us was.

You have to move far too many goal post to act as if the franchise is on a decline, at best you can say it just hasn’t been consistent and thats perception out of a minority of fans.

When a franchise truly declines its reflected in sales and brand perception. The brand perception of Final Fantasy is still sky high, its still a system seller. FFXVI being exclusive is a megaton announcement, that sony is using to move consoles here and across seas.

Its gonna be true for Rebirth also, which is probably even more hyped. There is no other JRPG series (outside of pokemon) that has the social cache of FF

 

[winb83]

Its a combination of critical acclaim, sales, and brand power. None of those series encompasses all of those things like Final Fantasy.

Each of those games maybe had one entry that broke into the mainstream, and by break into the mainstream we are talking one entry that scored along with one of the best FF games, or had sales that even broke over 2 million. As much as people talk about those games they aren’t system sellers.

You can even try and downplay FF15 again, but the truth is as much as you can say it was a flop it was still one of the best selling entries in the series and it still launched to critical acclaim, thats the brand power of Final Fantasy. Even when they release mediocre games they still become the topic of conversation.

There’s really no metric Final Fantasy has faltered in outside of the perception of the crowd you consider yourself a part of which is damn near irrelevant to the greater discussion of modern JRPGs.

Final Fantasy is still the most popular franchise outside of Pokemon, in terms of quality over a number of titles and sales

JRPGs aren't mainstream to begin with. There's a very small pool of titles that have reached that level but the majority of JRPGs will struggle to if ever reach that.

Also if you haven't noticed as Final Fantasy as a series goes on it continues distance it from what made it popular in the first place to attempt to appeal to people who don't like JRPGs. You play a Persona game and it has a structure and traits that mark it as such. The next game in the series will likely also play like a Persona game and people know what to expect. Final Fantasy games at this point have almost nothing to do with each other anymore.

Modern Final Fantasy is just a brand name for Square to release wildly different unrelated AAA titles and it is unlikely to ever return to any of the series roots. That means this is a series simply selling off a name rather than common traits that link the games.

Popularity doesn't equate to qualify either. The latest Pokémon game was a broken mess and it's one of the the best selling game in the series. It's a series where just like Final Fantasy a game of questionable quality could come out and it literally wouldn't matter people would still buy and reviews would still be positive.

Either way I'm done with this. You keep inserting strawman arguments I never said then arguing against them or saying my arguments are irrelevant because of popularity when I never said the series wasn't popular. You're never going to admit that Final Fantasy has been in decline for a while and isn't the gold standard anymore and I'll never concede that it's popularity negates that fact.

The end.

 

[Gizmo_Duck]

JRPGs aren't mainstream to begin with. There's a very small pool of titles that have reached that level but the majority of JRPGs will struggle to if ever reach that.

Also if you haven't noticed as Final Fantasy as a series goes on it continues distance it from what made it popular in the first place to attempt to appeal to people who don't like JRPGs. You play a Persona game and it has a structure and traits that mark it as such. The next game in the series will likely also play like a Persona game and people know what to expect. Final Fantasy games at this point have almost nothing to do with each other anymore.

Modern Final Fantasy is just a brand name for Square to release wildly different unrelated AAA titles and it is unlikely to ever return to any of the series roots. That means this is a series simply selling off a name rather than common traits that link the games.

Popularity doesn't equate to qualify either. The latest Pokémon game was a broken mess and it's one of the the best selling game in the series. It's a series where just like Final Fantasy a game of questionable quality could come out and it literally wouldn't matter people would still buy and reviews would still be positive.

Either way I'm done with this. You keep inserting strawman arguments I never said then arguing against them or saying my arguments are irrelevant because of popularity when I never said the series wasn't popular. You're never going to admit that Final Fantasy has been in decline for a while and isn't the gold standard anymore and I'll never concede that it's popularity negates that fact.

The end.

Because your definition of gold standard is already flawed to begin with.

You’re the one contradicting yourself. First you say final fantasy only appeals to casuals then say that it’s the n decline despite it continuing to still be very popular.

Then you say Jrpgs in general aren’t very popular, despite acknowledging the fact that Pokémon is in fact a JRPG and final fantasy is a JRPG that both sell millions of copies the week they come out.

So by who’s acknowledgment is FF despite the critical acclaim and sales isn’t a gold standard anymore? What are we measuring it against in the JRPG market?

Unless you want to continue into the tangent that FF isn’t a real rpg anymore.

 

[Rekkapryde]

FF16 wouldn’t be console exclusive if Xbox customers bought more copies of 15

 

[The Mad Titan]

FF16 wouldn’t be console exclusive if Xbox customers bought more copies of 15

And PC users too I guess...

 

[Rekkapryde]

And PC users too I guess...

Maybe