Feminist logic strikes the Democratic National Committee

[TLOL is back]

Video of TLOL and his peoples...

BBC News - Ultra-Orthodox Jews picket girls' school

Video of Victor and his peoples...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_uRIMUBnvw"]Dear Woman - YouTube[/ame]

 

[TLOL is back]

No, the translation is that I'm pretty comfortable in the knowledge that my perspective on this is going to win out. I don't need your help to get it done. If we're ever building the same company or something then I'll be happy to spend more time convincing you personally.

But you can't defend it. That is called "religion."

 

[The Real]

We can start with:

1) The right to kill their unborn child, even if the father objects.

Biologically, it's not our burden. There should be some stake in the matter for the father, but not an equal stake for that reason. A man can up and walk out on a pregnant woman and never have to deal with the issue and its complications again. That kind of autonomy isn't available to the pregnant party. You specifically have mentioned the biological differences between men and women as justification for treating them differently in the past. This is the primary area where that distinction has value in a political context.

2) The right to keep their unborn child, even if the father objects.

Same as above ^.

3) The entire Family Court system bending over backwards to please women (by your standards, this is discrimination against men since the laws affect men in most cases)

It doesn't happen with all matters pertaining to the family court, but in the areas where it does, yes, I agree that it is discrimination against men. The issue here though is that once again, the source is patriarchal gender roles that associate women with childcare, not women (who, as you want to point out, keep campaigning for the dissociation between themselves and the primary childcare roles.) That's the only explanation consistent with your own account of the matter.

4) Receiving lighter sentences for pedophilia and other crimes, just because they have a vagina.

I've never heard of this in my life, and if it exists, it's certainly not a prominent opinion in the area of women's issues, anymore than genocide of the Arabs is a prominent Israeli opinion with regards to the borders/statehood issue.

5) Having men for pay their contraception.

You want men to have a say in whether the child is born or not but don't want them to contribute financially to the stake?

There is none - I proposed an alternate explanation for the one you did (which you provided zero evidence for).

I'm not sure what evidence I should be presenting. The words of the women in the article (and elsewhere themselves) along with what they're actually campaigning for speak for themselves in this scenario, unless you're proposing that there is a dishonest, conspiratorial agenda behind the appearance. But if there is evidence that would convince you otherwise, let me know and I'll try to provide it.

 

[zerozero]

But you can't defend it. That is called "religion."

I did. I said it gives young parents of both sexes an equal playing field to pursue their career goals while giving their child a safe and social environment. You consider it "giving women free stuff", which is bizarre.

As for the rest of your pejoratives aimed at me or whatever, I'd much rather be a knight than a fukking scoundrel.

 

[TLOL is back]

I did. I said it gives young parents of both sexes an equal playing field to pursue their career goals while giving their child a safe and social environment. You consider it "giving women free stuff", which is bizarre.

I'm referring to "not providing free daycare" leading to allegations of sexism here... Which is "bizarre." Not whether or not providing day care is a good thing.

As for the rest of your pejoratives aimed at me or whatever, I'd much rather be a knight than a fukking scoundrel.

Damn breh, you still mad about that post on the other page?

 

[TLOL is back]

Biologically, it's not our burden. There should be some stake in the matter for the father, but not an equal stake for that reason. A man can up and walk out on a pregnant woman and never have to deal with the issue and its complications again. That kind of autonomy isn't available to the pregnant party. You specifically have mentioned the biological differences between men and women as justification for treating them differently in the past. This is the primary area where that distinction has value in a political context.



Same as above ^.



It doesn't happen with all matters pertaining to the family court, but in the areas where it does, yes, I agree that it is discrimination against men. The issue here though is that once again, the source is patriarchal gender roles that associate women with childcare, not women (who, as you want to point out, keep campaigning for the dissociation between themselves and the primary childcare roles.) That's the only explanation consistent with your own account of the matter.



I've never heard of this in my life, and if it exists, it's certainly not a prominent opinion in the area of women's issues, anymore than genocide of the Arabs is a prominent Israeli opinion with regards to the borders/statehood issue.



You want men to have a say in whether the child is born or not but don't want them to contribute financially to the stake?

You're missing the point. This isn't about what I want. I listed priveleges that women get, and they do get them.

I'm not sure what evidence I should be presenting. The words of the women in the article (and elsewhere themselves) along with what they're actually campaigning for speak for themselves in this scenario, unless you're proposing that there is a dishonest, conspiratorial agenda behind the appearance. But if there is evidence that would convince you otherwise, let me know and I'll try to provide it.

No they don't. And none of them said that men can't speak up because of social pressure which causes them to stay silent -- You just completely made that up. Which is fine, cause I presented an alternate hypothesis.

 

[zerozero]

I'm referring to "not providing free daycare" leading to allegations of sexism here... Which is "bizarre." Not whether or not providing day care is a good thing.

You seem to regard sexism as some painful insult or attack when it's more generalized than that. Here it means that our social expectations are not designed for the needs of working women. And the DNC event doesn't even have a for-fee official daycare. There just isn't any daycare unless they go to a separate random private provider on a list.

Damn breh, you still mad about that post on the other page?

No I saw my name in the vid to Vic before you edited it. And it's remarkable upon reflection that of all things to use an example of what you don't want to be you dudes settle on Knight.

 

[TLOL is back]

You seem to regard sexism as some painful insult or attack when it's more generalized than that. Here it means that our social expectations are not designed for the needs of working women. And the DNC event doesn't even have a for-fee official daycare. There just isn't any daycare unless they go to a separate random private provider on a list.

Except that here they're not designed for the working man either. Also, cut the bullshyt about "social expectations" - these nutjobs were talking about the DNC specifically, and called it discrimination.

No I saw my name in the vid to Vic before you edited it. And it's remarkable upon reflection that of all things to use an example of what you don't want to be you dudes settle on Knight.

Oh, there are all types of Knights. Those who put women on a pedestal...

 

[zerozero]

Except that here they're not designed for the working man either. Also, cut the bullshyt about "social expectations" - these nutjobs were talking about the DNC specifically, and called it discrimination.



Oh, there are all types of Knights. Those who put women on a pedestal...

yeah.. when there's a general issue that affects a demographic they're going to advocate for it across all sectors. Black men who can't get into a country club are powerful enough to make their own club... so? It doesn't mean the country club isn't discriminating on a racial basis. And the fact that men should be able to put kids in daycare too is a given with the concern.. a mother and a father's concerns are likely to usually overlap in terms of the kid they had together

 

[TLOL is back]

yeah.. when there's a general issue that affects a demographic they're going to advocate for it across all sectors. Black men who can't get into a country club are powerful enough to make their own club... so? It doesn't mean the country club isn't discriminating on a racial basis. And the fact that men should be able to put kids in daycare too is a given with the concern.. a mother and a father's concerns are likely to usually overlap in terms of the kid they had together

Will blacks rally if neither whites, blacks, or anyone else can go participate in the country club?

 

[zerozero]

Again you just seem to be annoyed about people calling out the fact that it is an issue that disproportionately affects women in society rather than disagreeing that it's an issue. They need to put a demand for daycare in aggrieved-men mailing lists so you can be convinced of the problem.

 

[Un-AmericanDreamer]

I think you guys are reaching with the country club analogy. I would have respected them more if they would have came out and promoted this as a single parent issue rather than a womans issue even if it affected women in disporportionate. It alienates men who may otherwise may have supported their stance but it sounds more like they're trying to play to the defensless women in need of protection and provision card. I just don't like the idea that it's mens job to make womens lives more comfortable. It comes across as borderline simpish to me. I mean, I got too much on my plate as a black man trying to make it in Amerikkka to elevate some priviledged delegate female. We should be focusing on the people who really got problems, most notably black men and our disenfranchisement in our families.

 

[zerozero]

I think you guys are reaching with the country club analogy. I would have respected them more if they would have came out and promoted this as a single parent issue rather than a womans issues even if it affected women in disporportionate. It alienates men who may otherwise may have supported their stance but it sounds more like they're trying to play to the defensless women in need of protection and provision card. I just don't like the idea that it's mens job to make womens lives more comfortable. It comes across as borderline simpish to me.

We're talking about daycare. Daycare.

We're talking about DAYCARE.

Are you guys listening to yourselves? Daycare is white knighting and simpery. Your values are messed up breh.

 

[The Real]

You're missing the point. This isn't about what I want. I listed priveleges that women get, and they do get them.

But of those, only some of the court stuff is a privilege they actually get. Abortion rights aren't a privilege.

No they don't. And none of them said that men can't speak up because of social pressure which causes them to stay silent -- You just completely made that up. Which is fine, cause I presented an alternate hypothesis.

I never said they said that, though. I'm saying that, because it's an empirical reality. When was the last time you saw a man campaigning about daycare? If you went up to your more macho friends and told them you wanted to be a babysitter/daycare activist, would they applaud and encourage you?

Besides, if you look up either Gloria Steinem or the NOW, you can see their words for yourself- they are never "anti-men" or exclusionary of men. They've both worked on issues that target minority men, working class men, etc, for decades.

I think you guys are reaching with the country club analogy. I would have respected them more if they would have came out and promoted this as a single parent issue rather than a womans issue even if it affected women in disporportionate. It alienates men who may otherwise may have supported their stance but it sounds more like they're trying to play to the defensless women in need of protection and provision card. I just don't like the idea that it's mens job to make womens lives more comfortable. It comes across as borderline simpish to me. I mean, I got too much on my plate as a black man trying to make it in Amerikkka to elevate some priviledged delegate female. We should be focusing on the people who really got problems, most notably black men and our disenfranchisement in our families.

Your argument here is misguided, breh. Police profiling should be framed mostly as a Black issue, and illegal immigration detention and deportation should be framed mostly as a Hispanic/Latino issue, even if the point is to eliminate those issues for all in the end. I don't see how that is a controversial or extreme position that alienates many people, and it only speeds along the process of ridding us of those problems by being specific and accurate about them. The only people it could alienate are themselves extremists or in denial about those realities.

 

[88m3]

women