Feminist logic strikes the Democratic National Committee

[zerozero]

Do you have any evidence of this being the case for Democratic delegates? Otherwise, you're just making sexist stereotypes breh.

I said this is why it's a feminist issue in general.

Man, you guys need to get out of this anti-feminist resentment mode and start thinking about the issue instead. Regardless of which parent is the caregiver there needs to be more daycare at the DNC, in workplaces, in cities, all of that so parents can more comfortably balance their preferences and choices about work and life.

 

[TLOL is back]

I said this is why it's a feminist issue in general.

Man, you guys need to get out of this anti-feminist resentment mode and start thinking about the issue instead. Regardless of which parent is the caregiver there needs to be more daycare at the DNC, in workplaces, in cities, all of that so parents can more comfortably balance their preferences and choices about work and life.

The issue from my point of view is that feminists are irresponsibly accusing anyone who doesn't pay for their shyt of sexism. I haven't seen the resident white knights condemn this shameful behavior.

 

[The Real]

Or because men are more likely to understand the concept of personal responsibility, instead of demanding everything be handed to them on a silver platter because of their genitals.

What are these mysterious privileges women want just because of their genitals?

And where is the evidence that men are more likely to understand personal responsibility?

 

[zerozero]

The issue from my point of view is that feminists are irresponsibly accusing anyone who doesn't pay for their shyt of sexism. I haven't seen the resident white knights condemn this shameful behavior.

You are talking like a child. I am not going to engage with your internet jargon whining about white knights or whatever. It is sexist that these things aren't built into our understandings of what organized events need. It's not sexist in the sense of "not allowing women into room" it's more of a blind spot. I'm sure you're super mad that there are nursing areas too. Get over it. Once upon a time handicapped facilities were not considered standard either. Now you will get sued for not building them! We can understand each others needs and grow together or be like you and just adopt resentment as a cornerstone of our dealings with women.

 

[Broke Wave]

What are these mysterious privileges women want just because of their genitals?

And where is the evidence that men are more likely to understand personal responsibility?

While we're at it, why do centuries old Ottoman land receipts mean nothing less than an interpretation of a religious book in determining who is the rightfu...

Nevermind I'm stunned as to why you would ask TLOL for evidence not based on his deluded world view.

 

[Brown_Pride]

Yeah, but women are the primary group affected by this policy, plus as I said in my earlier post, gender roles dictate that men shouldn't be speaking up about daycare issues, so they don't. That is primarily seen as the mother's responsibility. So while you're not wrong, ultimately, the target is still misguided patriarchal thinking. In fact, if men were the primary caregivers, I'm almost certain this issue would have been addressed before, if not at least discussed with more prominence.

In addition, the National Org for Women and Gloria Steinem are in no way anti-men, and both have worked at the very important and real intersection between women's issues, race issues, and class issues since the Civil Rights era. I sincerely doubt that they just want women to receive this kind of access. The other thing you have to remember is that news media often frames these in ways that highlights the separatist or exclusivist elements at the expense of the inclusivist, the same way they do with racial statements.

shyt i didn't know caring for kids was a woman only thing. Apparently i've been doing this shyt all wrong?

The issue then isn't day care it's that women are still perceived to be the only parent responsible for child care.

Caring for children is a PARENT issue not a man woman issue, regardless of who "traditionally" does it the whole point in change is to break tradition and yet we see arguments like this further solidifying stereotypes...

Counter productive if you ask me.

and working women have the same option working me have.

THere are 5 ways things play out.
1. Man works woman stays home
2. Woman works man stays home
3. Man and woman both work.
4. Solo Man works
5. Solo Woman Works.

Solutions:
1. Kids stay with woman or if woman elects to go they find a baby sitter.
2. Kids stay with man or if woman elects to go they find a baby sitter.
3. They find a baby sitter.
4. Find a baby sitter.
5. Find a baby sitter.

No women were harmed in the creation of this example.

 

[TLOL is back]

What are these mysterious privileges women want just because of their genitals?

We can start with:

1) The right to kill their unborn child, even if the father objects.

2) The right to keep their unborn child, even if the father objects.

3) The entire Family Court system bending over backwards to please women (by your standards, this is discrimination against men since the laws affect men in most cases)

4) Receiving lighter sentences for pedophilia and other crimes, just because they have a vagina.

5) Having men for pay their contraception.

And where is the evidence that men are more likely to understand personal responsibility?

There is none - I proposed an alternate explanation for the one you did (which you provided zero evidence for).

 

[TLOL is back]

While we're at it, why do centuries old Ottoman land receipts mean nothing less than an interpretation of a religious book in determining who is the rightfu...

Nevermind I'm stunned as to why you would ask TLOL for evidence not based on his deluded world view.

You should be stunned - since I was not making any claims, just providing alternate (possible) explanations. And this thread has nothing to do with Israel breh. You have a pretty strong obsession with the Jewish state. I strongly recommend psychotherapy to help you with your (cultural) issues.

You are talking like a child. I am not going to engage with your internet jargon whining about white knights or whatever. It is sexist that these things aren't built into our understandings of what organized events need. It's not sexist in the sense of "not allowing women into room" it's more of a blind spot. I'm sure you're super mad that there are nursing areas too. Get over it. Once upon a time handicapped facilities were not considered standard either. Now you will get sued for not building them! We can understand each others needs and grow together or be like you and just adopt resentment as a cornerstone of our dealings with women.

What the hell are you talking about? You're claiming its sexist that women don't get free stuff? What is this nonsense?

 

[zerozero]

What the hell are you talking about? You're claiming its sexist that women don't get free stuff? What is this nonsense?

I'm not going to go in circles with you breh. I am going to support a world in which daycare is seen as a basic requirement of workplaces and other environments. You can continue to be mad at it. I'll be winning out Good day.

 

[The Real]

shyt i didn't know caring for kids was a woman only thing. Apparently i've been doing this shyt all wrong?

Well, it definitely isn't, but we already agreed on that.

The issue then isn't day care it's that women are still perceived to be the only parent responsible for child care.

Well, that's part of the issue. There's the ideological dimension, which is the problem you mentioned, and then there's the material dimension, which is that most of the people affected by the issue are still women.

Caring for children is a PARENT issue not a man woman issue, regardless of who "traditionally" does it the whole point in change is to break tradition and yet we see arguments like this further solidifying stereotypes...

Counter productive if you ask me.

Yes, I agree that it is absolutely a parent issue, and that the whole point is to break tradition, but I would argue that we can't do that without first recognizing that it is currently not presented that way and doesn't reflect material realities for both men and women. I think this is analogous to the way "colorblindness" is a counterproductive strategy in anti-racist thinking. We want to get to that point for sure, but we can't reach it by forcibly acting that way now, because that covers up a bunch of the present conditions we're starting with and the specific differences that pertain to the groups affected, which can only hurt us down the road. We have to acknowledge which groups are receiving which shares of the inequalities and how, and then work to redress them.

and working women have the same option working me have.

THere are 5 ways things play out.
1. Man works woman stays home
2. Woman works man stays home
3. Man and woman both work.
4. Solo Man works
5. Solo Woman Works.

Solutions:
1. Kids stay with woman or if woman elects to go they find a baby sitter.
2. Kids stay with man or if woman elects to go they find a baby sitter.
3. They find a baby sitter.
4. Find a baby sitter.
5. Find a baby sitter.

No women were harmed in the creation of this example.

Theoretically this is very true, but again, I think you're ignoring the power relations at play here. To go to analogy again, say we zoomed out and were comparing white families and hispanic families with respect to childcare the way you laid it out above- theoretically, they should be the same, but in reality, there are a number of issues the hispanic families have to deal with that the white families don't. Similarly, if you juxtapose a woman with a man in a single-parent or even inter-family scenario, there are things they have to deal with that are largely specific to them.

 

[Brown_Pride]

We can start with:

1) The right to kill their unborn child, even if the father objects.

2) The right to keep their unborn child, even if the father objects.

3) The entire Family Court system bending over backwards to please women (by your standards, this is discrimination against men since the laws affect men in most cases)

4) Receiving lighter sentences for pedophilia and other crimes, just because they have a vagina.

5) Having men for pay their contraception.



There is none - I proposed an alternate explanation for the one you did (which you provided zero evidence for).

i'll remain silent on everything but 3.
IN AZ men are all but destroyed in family courts. The courts have decided that the hierarchy of "what's best for the child" is woman>man. ALl things being equal a woman will get more custody and better "divorce terms" than a man.

 

[TLOL is back]

I'm not going to go in circles with you breh. I am going to support a world in which daycare is seen as a basic requirement of workplaces and other environments. You can continue to be mad at it. I'll be winning out Good day.

Translation: I really can't defend my claims any longer, so I'll just insert a smilie here and continue worshipping my female overlords.

Okay breh.

i'll remain silent on everything but 3.
IN AZ men are all but destroyed in family courts. The courts have decided that the hierarchy of "what's best for the child" is woman>man. ALl things being equal a woman will get more custody and better "divorce terms" than a man.

Its like that in every damn state.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Video of TLOL and his peoples...

BBC News - Ultra-Orthodox Jews picket girls' school

 

[zerozero]

Translation: I really can't defend my claims any longer, so I'll just insert a smilie here and continue worshipping my female overlords.

Okay breh.

No, the translation is that I'm pretty comfortable in the knowledge that my perspective on this is going to win out. I don't need your help to get it done. If we're ever building the same company or something then I'll be happy to spend more time convincing you personally.

 

[Brown_Pride]

Well, that's part of the issue. There's the ideological dimension, which is the problem you mentioned, and then there's the material dimension, which is that most of the people affected by the issue are still women.

Maybe I’m not seeing this but HOW. How are more women affected by childcare than men?

Yes, I agree that it is absolutely a parent issue, and that the whole point is to break tradition, but I would argue that we can't do that without first recognizing that it is currently not presented that way and doesn't reflect material realities for both men and women. I think this is analogous to the way "colorblindness" is a counterproductive strategy in anti-racist thinking. We want to get to that point for sure, but we can't reach it by forcibly acting that way now, because that covers up a bunch of the present conditions we're starting with and the specific differences that pertain to the groups affected, which can only hurt us down the road. We have to acknowledge which groups are receiving which shares of the inequalities and how, and then work to redress them.

I agree there are certain things that need to be addressed. The glass ceiling, pay discrepancies, etc. I just don’t think child care is a woman-primary issue. Even looking at the material world in a FAMILY childcare is a FAMILY issue. In a single family home unless single men are getting some benefits I don’t know about then the playing field is equal. SO really we need only look at the “family” dynamic of where sexism is occurring. IF a woman feels she is solely responsible for childcare then she needs to bring that up to her husband, as that is again a FAMILY issue.

I’m willing to listen but again you’re going to have to show me where childcare is solely a woman issue.

Theoretically this is very true, but again, I think you're ignoring the power relations at play here. To go to analogy again, say we zoomed out and were comparing white families and hispanic families with respect to childcare- theoretically, they should be the same, but in reality, there are a number of issues the hispanic families have to deal with that the white families don't.

It would be more like comparing ONE Hispanic family to another. Each family might have differences in how they operate or function, how they save and spend but ultimately they face the same things so to say one is being discriminated against MORE than another is a stretch if the ONLY criteria is that they have brown skin. Comparing brown to white is a horse of a different color.