Fascinating MJ/Kobe/Bron Comparison

[Swagnificent]

You're retarded possibly autistic. Why would anyone take your opinion on basketball seriously because "you watch the games".

Show us receipts of your hoop career.

Also, analytics created the Warriors and Spurs. Big reason why the game has shifted out to the three point and why teams value 3D players. Disparaging analytics or creating a science around the game is dumb and puts you with Charles Barkley category of dumbness

Who said listen to my opinion? I watch the games and think my opinion is better than most. But I don't consider myself infallible. That is why I always quote what respected NBA players say.

Whenever I argue that Kobe is better than LeBron, I mostly cite quotes from NBA players. Cause at the end of the day, I do agree with you. My opinion is no more valuable than anyone else on this message board. I do however have respect for what the guys who play the game say.

 

[ELESDEE616]

Who said listen to my opinion? I watch the games and think my opinion is better than most. But I don't consider myself infallible. That is why I always quote what respected NBA players say.

Whenever I argue that Kobe is better than LeBron, I mostly cite quotes from NBA players. Cause at the end of the day, I do agree with you. My opinion is no more valuable than anyone else on this message board. I do however have respect for what the guys who play the game say.

So you admit you're autistic?

 

[FlyRy]

Do you guys really not understand basketb

all or are you WILLFULLY IGNORANT?

We've already broken this whole Kobe/LeBron stat game down for ya'll a million times. They've played in different offensive schemes their entire careers.

LeBron has intentionally played in a system for his entire career built on inflating his stats to the detriment of winning (aka Bron Ball). LeBron forces everyone he plays with (even other great players like D-Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, and Love) to play off the ball and become 3-point shooters to spread the floor for him. Because he lacks Kobe's skill level as a one on one scorer from the perimeter, he needs space to drive into the lane. LeBron could never play as effectively next to a low-post big like Shaq or Gasol the way Kobe did because those guys clog the paint and would not give LeBron space to drive. This is why he forced guys like Bosh and Love to totally change their games. They were never great post players but they did play in the post quite a bit before joining LeBron. However, after LeBron they turned exclusively into 3-point shooters and their numbers suffered. Compare that to Kobe. When Gasol joined the Lakers he wasn't forced to change his game. He did what he always did and his numbers stay roughly the same.

That's because Kobe is versatile enough to play with other great players. LeBron on the other hand forces other great players to turn into role players. He lacks Kobe's skill level to still score a high level with a big man clogging up the paint with an extra defender. And this is why LeBron has such an awful record in the finals. Great teams are able to expose this flaw in his teams. They know that its only LeBron they gotta worry about. LeBron because of the way he plays basically renders all his other great players into outside shooters. And shooters don't scare great teams. They know as long as they can stay on them, LeBron can get his numbers and they'll still win. That is what the Golden State Warriors did in 2015 and 2017. San Antonio Spurs did the same thing in 2014.

Kobe sacrificed personal stats for winning. He could have easily done what LeBron does. Put him on a team where he handles the ball every second and he's surrounded by nothing but shooters, and he could average 30-7-7 every game. Hell he averaged 30/7/6 in 2003 while playing with Shaq in the triangle offense. An offensive scheme that was very bad for assists because every pass in that offense was designed to feed the post. But Kobe did it because he knew in the end it was better for winning.

5-2 vs 3-5 is the only stat that matters in this thread. Its the one that confirms the opinions of NBA players that Kobe Bryant is easily the better player.

The most selfish player ever SACRIFICED?

What did he sacrifice when he chucked his way to a damn near sweep in 2004?

What did he sacrifice by having the most missed FGA of all-time?

All that other shyt you mentioned is more credit to the triangle than it is to selfish ass bean.

Breh took 50 shots in his last game still chucking like it was 2002 because his game never evolved.


SACRIFICE

 

[Rigby.]

I gotta hit the at this chart. It’s essentially arguing that 1987-89 Michael was better than 1991-93 Michael was. That doesn’t sound right at all. The logic in this chart seems really flawed.

Isn’t that the young Jordan that was doing insane shyt scoring wise every night but got booted out the offs repeatedly? I don’t exactly see how it works but it would make sense that his individual value was higher back when also it appears that “saving points” is a factor and those Chicago teams were one of the few that were actually built to succeed as a system in that era. When he sat, id presume there wasn’t that much of a drop off (relative to himself)

 

[Sccit]

The most selfish player ever SACRIFICED?

What did he sacrifice when he chucked his way to a damn near sweep in 2004?

What did he sacrifice by having the most missed FGA of all-time?

All that other shyt you mentioned is more credit to the triangle than it is to selfish ass bean.

Breh took 50 shots in his last game still chucking like it was 2002 because his game never evolved.


SACRIFICE

ARE U RETARDED? NAAH, SERIOUSLY BRO.. KOBES GAME NEVER EVOLVED?? COMIN FROM A LEBRON FAN??? LMFFFFAO

KOBE WAS LITERALLY KNOWN FOR COMIN IN EACH SEASON WIT SOMETHIN NEW ADDED TO HIS ARSENAL. HE WOULD SPEND THE OFFSEASON WIT DIFF LEGENDS AND STUDY THEM, INCORPORATING PARTS OF THEIR GAME INTO HIS. U ARE THE EPITOME OF A CASUAL FAM.

 

[Sccit]

Wtf are you talking about?

The goal of these metrics is to evaluate what has happened. It is NOT to predict.

That said...the metrics ARE better at predicting future performance than any “eye test”. Ever.



If these metrics were as inconsistent as you pretend they are, where are the high rates of outliers? Where’s the metric that has Emmanuel Mudiay as a top 5 player?




Can’t find it huh.

WHY DO YOU NEED OVERCOMPLEXIFIED NUMBERS TO EXPLAIN TO YOU WHAT ALREADY HAPPENED IN A SIMPLE GAME OF BASKETBALL? DO U REALIZE HOW RETARDED THAT IS? APPLYING MATH TO A GAME OF 5 ON 5 IS THE EPITOME OF NERD SHIIT .. THATS WHY MOST ATHLETES HATE ANALYTICS AND WANT NO PARTS OF IT. YOU CANNOT QUANTIFY SHIIT LIKE HEART, WILL, PASSION, ENERGY, SOUL .. SHIIT THAT GOES FAR BEYOND NUMBERS. A SQUARE RETARD LIKE U WOULDNT UNDERSTAND THAT THO .. FOR THOSE OF U WHO WATCH LAKER BROADCASTS, U CAN ALWAYS HEAR BILL MACDONALD BRING UP SOME WEIRDO STAT, FOLLOWED BY STU LEGIT GETTIN FRUSTRATED, SAYIN SOME SHIIT LIKE “I DONT CARE ABOUT MADE UP STATS..I CARE WHAT I SEE ON THE COURT, STOP WIT THAT NONSENSE BOY”..IF U DONT KNOW BY NOW, BILL IS SOME FAT UNATHLETIC NERD WHO NEVER PLAYED SPORTS, AND STU IS A FORMER NBA PLAYER .. ITS ALWAYS THE CASE.
THE HUMAN EYE GOES FAR BEYOND NUMBERS. NUMBERS ARE EXTREMELYYYYY LIMITED COMPARED TO WHAT WHAT WE ARE CAPABLE OF SEEING AND UNDERSTANDING. BUT MOST PEOPLE ARE STUPID AS FUCC, SO THEY PROLLY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IM GETTIN AT HERE. IM PRETTY MUCH JUS WASTING MY TIME TRYNA GET THROUGH TO SOME RETARDS WHO DONT EVEN UNDERSTAND THAT OUR CONSCIOUSNESS ONLY ALLOWS US TO SEE A LIMITED PART OF WHATS TRULY AROUND US, AND NUMBERS ARE 100X MORE LIMITED THAN THAT. IF I LOST U ITS BECAUSE YOURE LIVIN THIS LIFE IN ZOMBIE MODE. LIKE MOST STAT GEEKS..ROBOTIC FAGOTS WIT NO SOUL. PERIOD.

 

[Cadillac]

those records

R there any more of them?

 

[Sccit]

those records

R there any more of them?

THOSE “RECORDS” ARE CHERRY PICKED TO PERSUADE SHEEP VIA MEANS OF PROPAGANDA.. OF COURSE THE GREATEST SCORER IN NBA HISTORY WITH SOME OF THE HIGHEST POINT TOTAL RECORDS IS ALSO GUNA HOLD HELLA RECORDS FOR MOST ATTEMPTS, MOST MISSED SHOTS, ETC

MORE KOBE RECORDS:

MOST POINTS IN GAME (POST WILT)
MOST CONSECUTIVE 50 POINT GAMES
MOST POINTS IN 3 QUARTERS (POST WILT)
AVERAGED 40 PPG IN A MONTH (NOT EVEN MJ DID THIS)
MOST THREE POINTERS MADE IN A GAME (PRE STEPH)
MOST ALL-DEFENSIVE TEAMS
MOST ALL-NBA TEAMS
MOST POINTS IN A FINAL GAME (BY FAR)
OLDEST PLAYER TO SCORE 60
MOST FREE THROWS MADE IN PLAYOFF SERIES
MOST POINTS SCORED IN 1 ARENA
ONLY PLAYER TO SCORE AT LEAST 40 AGAINST EVERY TEAM
ONLY PLAYER TO SCORE 600+ IN THE PLAYOFFS FOR 3 CONSECUTIVE YEARS

SEE HOW EASY IT IS TO MANIPULATE DUMBASSES WITH NUMBERS?

 

[FunkDoc1112]

Advanced stats are consistent and unbiased. The different calculations are lines drawn in the sand and the actual game events are plotted accordingly. But again and again it has to be explained to you, they are not designed to be used for a ranking of who the best player is.

There are two major issues with your attempt at an appeal to authority argument.

1. You are a flat earth fakkit who willingly ignores expert opinions to the contrary. So clearly you don't think expert experience in a field makes someone a reliable source.

2. Your study of "almost every player says LeBron is better" is inherently flawed. It's not a complete study and not only do a lot of the quotes not stem from a question of who is better between Kobe and LeBron, a lot of the quotes are too old to be used because of how much has changed since the quote, some answer different questions (toughest to guard, etc) and some are just general compliments.

Dude was citing Larry Bird when he hasn't spoken on LeBron since early 2012, and Dr J when just this year he said Kareem, MJ and LeBron are his top 3

Dudes a first class moron, he just constantly tries to appear smart in his tone while appealing to the authority over and over again.

 

[Remote]

WHY DO YOU NEED OVERCOMPLEXIFIED NUMBERS TO EXPLAIN TO YOU WHAT ALREADY HAPPENED IN A SIMPLE GAME OF BASKETBALL?

And this is at the heart of the issue.
You’re too stupid to understand what these metrics mean. Or you are too lazy to look them up.

“Overcomplexified”

Here’s what TPA is, dumb ass.

TPA Model | NBA Math

The concept of total points added (TPA), isn’t particularly complicated. We’re looking at both defensive and offensive effectiveness on a per-possession basis while also incorporating the amount of playing time the contributor in question receives.

At the heart of the theory is this comparison between two hypothetical players:

• Player A makes an average team 5 points better per 100 possessions than an average player would in his spot, and he plays 500 possessions.
• Player B makes an average team 10 points better per 100 possessions than an average player would in his spot, and he plays 250 possessions.

Player B is more effective on a per-possession basis—twice as effective, in fact. But Player A spends twice as much time on the court. Theoretically, they should have identical values, as they would both add 25 points to an average team.

As such, the formula for TPA is rather simple. It’s broken down into two parts—offensive points added (OPA) and defensive points saved (DPS)—and each is calculated in the same vein.

 

[kuts]

Men lie.
Women lie.
Numbers don’t.

All three mislead if not outright lie.

 

[Remote]

All three mislead if not outright lie.

Numbers never lie.
The only ones who think this are the people who fail to use them in the proper context.

 

[kuts]

Numbers never lie.
The only ones who think this are the people who fail to use them in the proper context.

Hence they mislead because people use numbers without context all the time, which means that numbers lie by proxy because a number in a vacuum is meaningless.

 

[Remote]

Hence they mislead because people use numbers without context all the time, which means that numbers lie by proxy because a number in a vacuum is meaningless.

And a gun in a vacuum is meaningless. You really want to play this phony game?

Further, the only ones offended in this thread are those who act like TPA was supposed to tell you who the best player ever is. Which is to say the ones taking it out of context and lying are those who either dont know what the stat is, or overstate what it’s use is. Not the stat itself.

 

[kuts]

And a gun in a vacuum is meaningless. You really want to play this phony game?

Further, the only ones offended in this thread are those who act like TPA was supposed to tell you who the best player ever is. Which is to say the ones taking it out of context and lying are those who either dont know what the stat is, or overstate what it’s use is. Not the stat itself.

Exactly.

I could care less about this thread tbh.

Honestly, I woke up this morning thinking how some of JayZ’s (and by extension a lot of braggadocio rap) haven’t aged all that well and your numbers line prompted me to reply.