Fact: The Ancient Egyptians were black and here is why.

[Prevail]

There were blacks in Egypt.
Its like saying the Americans we are today are Black / Latino / White.
I mean you wouldn't be wrong for saying any of those three were apart of the nation.

Egypt was multicultural. Nubia, was apparently predominantly black, came before Egypt, created early civilizations which influenced Egypt
A-Group culture - Wikipedia
Even the architecture, the burial practices. The first boats on the nile were depicted on nubian pottery years before Egyptians. Then the Egyptians started ransacking their shyt vice-versa and culture was spread.
Not to mention they were cool with Egyptians at some points and shared their culture / religion / etc willingly.

Also forgot to mention they intervened and saved Jerusalem from being annihilated by the Assyrians when the Nubians took control of Egypt.
Which caused their decline; they got stomped.
The Assyrians and Romans refused to advance into Nubia after skirmishing with them and while Egypt was constantly getting repossessed by greeks / romans / sultanates / assyrians / etc
nubia outlasted egypt by millennia - even being considered a regional power until it got taken over by Aksum/Ethiopia, which was considered a world power at one point.

Don't understand the obsession with Egypt and race.

Why not talk about Nubia or the flooding due to the Aswan Dam?

 

[godkiller]

Your argument is overly simplistic and none of your conclusions are backed by science.

It's true that HOA people are admixed according to genetic studies, but this is the result of two prehistoric groups coming into contact and has nothing to do with "Arabs" or any such nonsense.

"The African Ethiopic ancestry is tightly restricted to HOA populations and likely represents an autochthonous HOA population. The non-African ancestry in the HOA, which is primarily attributed to a novel Ethio-Somali inferred ancestry component, is significantly differentiated from all neighboring non-African ancestries in North Africa, the Levant, and Arabia. The Ethio-Somali ancestry is found in all admixed HOA ethnic groups, shows little inter-individual variance within these ethnic groups, is estimated to have diverged from all other non-African ancestries by at least 23 ka, and does not carry the unique Arabian lactase persistence allele that arose about 4 ka. Taking into account published mitochondrial, Y chromosome, paleoclimate, and archaeological data, we find that the time of the Ethio-Somali back-to-Africa migration is most likely pre-agricultural."


Basically the African DNA in HOA people is indigenous (autochthonous) to the Horn and from a distinct group of people of whom we are the only descendants. The "West Eurasian" DNA is also from a distinct group of people who are significantly different from any of the modem day West Eurasians. It seems like they migrated back into the Horn after having left it.

All of this supposedly took place pre-agriculture and there's no telling how people might've looked and what their skin color was like. You can't just super-impose modern racial categories on people who literally lived in pre-agricultural hunter-gatherer communities and then make overly simplistic conclusions based on that. It's a very flawed and superficial way of interpreting the data.

The above is just speculation and is refuted by Early Back-to-Africa migration (ironically) speculation. Current Eurasian haplogroups are heavily found in HOA like J1. Moreover not all tribes or people in HOA region have Eurasian ancestry; some tribes in the Southern parts don't (like the Nilo Saharan of Ethiopia). Altogether, the presence of Eurasian founder gene J1 in HOA comicantant with the fact some Somali and Ethio tribes don't have Eurasian genes, is an strong implication the Eurasian genes in Ethio-Somali are foreign rather than autochthonous.

There's nothing flawed or superifical about the study or analysis. The Eurasians from thousands of years ago aren't exactly the same as Eurasians today, likely due to time and gene shift, but they are still largely the same. It's the same non-black admixture.

Early Back-to-Africa Migration into the Horn of Africa

As for ancient Egypt, then the only people who can really claim a direct link to that civilization are modern day Nubians and Egyptians. It doesn't mean that neighboring populations had no influence.

And it doesn't mean that Egyptians (especially the earliest dynasties) did not have black skin. But it is ridiculous to suggest that a Niger-Congo speaker from Ghana or Nigeria has more claim to Egypt than a modern day Egyptian copt or a Nubian.

No,according to the DNA study, the only people who can claim a direct link to the Ancient Egyptians are :
1) Southern Africans (whose genes make up the highest % of Egyptian pharaohs);
2) African Great Lakes Africans (so the Bantu of Kenya and the like)
3) Central Africans who are Bantus from Central/East Africa
4) Tropical West Africans (so the ancestors of the Western Black dispora).
5) There is some East African but it is primarily Bantu Ethio-Somali given the lack of Eurasian in Ancient Egyptian Pharaohs.

Ancient Egyptians have no genetic connection to the Arabs in Egypt, whom are a totally different Eurasian race.

Ancient Egyptians have more connection with blacks today than modern day "Nubians", who essentially are just Arabs with some Nilotic in them. There are full Nilotic people in East Africa.

 

[godkiller]

I'm no expert on the matter but to me it seems the genetic history of the demographics of Egypt reflects Egypt's geographical location at the crossroads of several major cultural areas: Northeast Africa, Northwest Africa, the Sahara, Sub-Saharan Africa, and the Near East.

Nope. Genetic analysis says the Ancient Egyptians were a mixed of black Afican people. Emphasis on Black African. If you have studies disproving this notion, post them.

While there are plenty of paintings and artifacts of black looking Egyptians there are some that IMO simply look to fair to be considered Black. Also the genetic analysis of Modern Copts have revealed they share most genetic similarities with DNA analysis of Ancient Egyptian mummies. If we are honest with ourselves and look at modern day Copts most don't look black but have a Mediterranean appearance.

There is DNA study which supplements the black Ancient Egyptian paintings and artifacts---and no DNA study which supports anything else. Copts also are not related to Ancient Egyptians. Show me the "analysis' which says so. Copts are basically whiter Eurasians. Ancient Egyptians weren't "Mediterranean" originally.

 

[godkiller]

There were blacks in Egypt.
Its like saying the Americans we are today are Black / Latino / White.
I mean you wouldn't be wrong for saying any of those three were apart of the nation.

Egypt was multicultural. Nubia, was apparently predominantly black, came before Egypt, created early civilizations which influenced Egypt
A-Group culture - Wikipedia
Even the architecture, the burial practices. The first boats on the nile were depicted on nubian pottery years before Egyptians. Then the Egyptians started ransacking their shyt vice-versa and culture was spread.
Not to mention they were cool with Egyptians at some points and shared their culture / religion / etc willingly.

Also forgot to mention they intervened and saved Jerusalem from being annihilated by the Assyrians when the Nubians took control of Egypt.
Which caused their decline; they got stomped.
The Assyrians and Romans refused to advance into Nubia after skirmishing with them and while Egypt was constantly getting repossessed by greeks / romans / sultanates / assyrians / etc
nubia outlasted egypt by millennia - even being considered a regional power until it got taken over by Aksum/Ethiopia, which was considered a world power at one point.

Don't understand the obsession with Egypt and race.

Why not talk about Nubia or the flooding due to the Aswan Dam?

DNA study says the Ancient Egyptians were black. There is even a study which says Ancient Egyptians had sickle cell 50% or thereabouts rate. There is no way the Ancient Egyptians could be mixed race. No race on Earth but pure blacks have such high sickle rate. This evidence, along with the DNA, supersedes your nonsense post here.

 

[godkiller]

Not to be rude at all, but I don't think the ancient Egyptians being "Black African" was ever really under question, I thought the question of how long it was a "Black African" state, because as most ancient heavy trade/developing areas, it has frequent populations of foreigners (Romans, Greeks, Palestinean Arab/"Hebrews"/etc, that changed the composition. This isn't to forget mentioning the Egyptians themselves were also frequently warring and changed their own composition through slavery.

1) You're wrong: there is little question as to how long Ancient Egypt was a black state (everybody knows Egypt was destroyed and colonized when the Romans invaded). The question rather is whether Egypt was ever black at all. I have never debated anyone on "how long Egypt was a black state".

2) All foreigners in Egypt arrived after Rome destroyed it. There is no question of this.

3) There is no genetic evidence Ancient Egyptians changed their composition through slavery. The genetic evidence says the Pharaohs didn't. Further implication implies the Ancient Egyptians didn't.


2

 

[Karb]

^I'll play along:

Please do explain how the "real direct descendants" of ancient Egyptians:

a) have no linguistic connection to the ancient Egyptian language and

b) ended up in Kenya, southern Africa etc.. Was there a mass migration of millions of Egyptians? Where did the Copts come from?

The above is just speculation and is refuted by Early Back-to-Africa migration (ironically) speculation. Current Eurasian haplogroups are heavily found in HOA like J1. Moreover not all tribes or people in HOA region have Eurasian ancestry; some tribes in the Southern parts don't (like the Nilo Saharan of Ethiopia). Altogether, the presence of Eurasian founder gene J1 in HOA comicantant with the fact some Somali and Ethio tribes don't have Eurasian genes, is an strong implication the Eurasian genes in Ethio-Somali are foreign rather than autochthonous.

There's nothing flawed or superifical about the study or analysis. The Eurasians fromthousands of years ago aren't exactly the same as Eurasians today, likely due to time and gene shift, but they are still largely the same. It's the same non-black admixture.

Did you even read the study that I quoted from?? It's the most thorough genetic study of horner DNA to date and is also quite recent. I already mentioned back-migration. I didn't state that Ethio-Somali was autochthonous either so I'm not really sure you understood my point.

It literally refutes most of your claims i.e Horners having Arab DNA (false), that they were admixed a "few thousand years ago" (false, the shyt is pre-agricultural), etc.

Keep in mind that the world looked very differently during those times. You can't just assume that those ancient, extinct West Eurasians (Ethio-Somali) were white/looked like modem day Eurasians.

 

[godkiller]

^I'll play along:

Please do explain how the "real direct descendants" of ancient Egyptians:

a) have no linguistic connection to the ancient Egyptian language and

b) ended up in Kenya, southern Africa etc.. Was there a mass migration of millions of Egyptians? Where did the Copts come from?

a) Anyone can speak any language and DNA analysis supersedes language analysis when it comes to race. Hausa in West Africa ,a black African tribe, speak an Afroasiatic language. The Egyptians are likely a similar case.

b) There are 2 theories explaining the Ancient Egyptians' DNA and one of these theories is highly likely to be the answer:

1. Ancient Egyptian people are originally from West/Central Africa and travelled down to Southern Africa, same as the Zulu, before travelling up to Egypt. This accounts for all the Ancient Egyptian pharaoh's mixed black ancestry, same as it accounts for the Zulu's affinities.

2. Ancient Egyptian people developed in Egypt and black people spread from East Africa Egypt to other parts of Africa. This fits the whole "humanity began in East Africa" thing.

Did you even read the study that I quoted from?? It's the most thorough genetic study of horner DNA to date and is also quite recent. I already mentioned back-migration. I didn't state that Ethio-Somali was autochthonous either so I'm not really sure you understood my point.

There is nothing which suggests this study is thorough at all. Your study (if you in fact read it) speculates that Eurasian ancestry in Ethio-Somali HOA is autochthonous, yet doesn't mention the fact that there exist people in the HOA that have full black ancestry and that modern day Arab genes are found in the HOA Ethio-Somali populations. The two points imply heavily that the Eurasian ancestry in Ethio-Somali HOA is foreign and not autochthonous. The fact your study doesn't address them or a host of others' is evidence your study is far from thorough.

 

[Karb]

^no it doesn't. It says that the Ethiopic ancestry is autochthonous, not the Ethio-Somali.. it literally states the opposite of what you understood from it..

The study is widely acknowledged for being the most thorough study on HOA DNA to date in academic circles..

No disrespect, but I think it's best to end this discussion here bruh..

 

[godkiller]

^no it doesn't. It says that the Ethiopic ancestry is autochthonous, not the Ethio-Somali.. it literally states the opposite of what you understood from it..

The study is widely acknowledged for being the most thorough study on HOA DNA to date in academic circles..

No disrespect, but I think it's best to end this discussion here bruh..

We'll continue. Don't run away now.

I misread Ethiopia as Ethio-Somali. But in this case the study agrees with what I've been saying all along: black African part of HOA populations is autochthonous and the non-black African DNA is not. Your only (weak) argument is only that the Eurasian DNA is HOA populations is "different" to modern day Arabs. I already addressed and refuted this argument: modern day Eurasian haplos are found in Ethio-Somali people. Your study doesn't address this fact and accordingly isn't "thorough". Nothing changes for having misread a sentence.

Moving on, that there is *some* difference between Eurasians today and Eurasians a few thousands years ago is irrelevant. Cacs today and cacs a few thousand years ago are a little different --- but mostly the same cac. It's the same everywhere. Geneticists can isolate Eurasians from Ancient Egyptian DNA same as they can isolate black DNA.

 

[godkiller]

@-speedKillz
No such thing. Go find me the DNA study which supplements DNA consultants.com (if any exists)

 

[Prevail]

DNA study says the Ancient Egyptians were black. There is even a study which says Ancient Egyptians had sickle cell 50% or thereabouts rate. There is no way the Ancient Egyptians could be mixed race. No race on Earth but pure blacks have such high sickle rate. This evidence, along with the DNA, supersedes your nonsense post here.

Are you assuming Egyptians didn't trade, didn't admix, and were racists instead of nationalist? Some of the metrics used as evidence don't support a pure black egypt; not all mummies were shown to have sub-saharan ancestry, for instance. To say they were majority black, I could probably agree with you; to say they were homogeneous is another thing.

 

[Swagnificent]

The Ancestors of the AE were Nilo-Saharan like people. NOT Somali as genetic lineages associated with Somalis did not even exist yet.

The AE were a mix of AA speakers but those AA speakers were NOT cushyte but more similar to Chadic and even Berber.

True. The ORIGIN of the Ancient Egyptians is clearly Nilotic (or at the very least whatever the ancient source population was for East Africans). However, you cannot deny that as we move along in the history of Egypt, that as they started mixing with some of the groups they conquered that there was some mixing. And most likely as we move into the later era of Ancient Egypt you probably would see more phenotypes among the Egyptians that resemble modern day Cushytic speakers like the Oromo.

I think the Sphinx is the key. Its significantly older than anything else we know of in Ancient Egypt. Its also arguably the most incredible monument the Ancient Egyptians built (outside of the Great Pyramid). And if you look at the face of the Sphinx it definitely has features aytpical (though not unheard of) among modern Afro-Asiatic speakers. The features of the Sphinx are more in line with modern Nilo-Saharans. As well if you look at the busts of many of the first Pharaohs you will see that they typically had very broad noses and prognathic jaws. Both features that are atypical of modern day Cushytes but very typical of modern day Nilotic speakers.

So if I had to guess, I would say if we were around for the start of Ancient Egyptian civilization, they would look like the South Sudanese but as we move into the later generations they would start looking like East Africans.

 

[Swagnificent]

Ancient Egyptians were Somali breh

We're claiming that shyt

Recognized genetic similarity

Similarity in geology

Language: Somali/Egyptian (meaning)
Qora/Ra (The sun)
Neter/Neder (divine being)
Hipo/Hibo (the sound b doe not exist in Hamitic languages - gift)
Heru/Xuur (a stork)
Tuf/Tuf (spit)
Habi (the Nile)/Wabi ( a river)
Ar/Ar ( a lion)
cb/kab (shoe)
brq/biriq (lightning)
ayah/dayax (moon)
dab/dab (fire)
anka/aniga (I)
Ka/Ka,Kaah (spirit)
medu/muud (liquid)

No. Its actually the other way around.

Somalis and most other Cushtic speakers are descended or probably better yet related to later generations of Ancient Egyptians. They original Ancient Egyptians were not Somali. In fact, when Ancient Egypt was born there was no such thing as Somalis or just about any other modern Cushytic speaking populations. There was only the original population of pure East Africans that all the modern groups we see now descend from. And it was this original East African population that started Ancient Egyptian civilization.

The OG population of the Nile was more "pure" African than the modern populations we see in East Africa. No diss but the DNA studies are pretty clear. Most modern East Africans have some non-African ancestry. That non-African ancestry was acquired as a result of the conquests the Ancient Egyptians (and other related civilizations in the Nile Valley that we know little about did).

Just look at the profile of the Sphinx:

The prognathic jaw is a dead giveaway of its purely African origin. Also you have to look at how old the Sphnix truly is. There is weather erosion on it from torrential rain fall. The last time the Giza plateau or anywhere else in the Sahara desert had rainfall significant enough to produce the erosion seen in the Sphinx encampment was over 7,500+ years ago. So its possible the Sphinx is thousands of years older than the recognized start of Ancient Egyptian civilization.

I think the Sphinx is our greatest peak into what the original source population of Ancient Egyptian civilization looked like.

 

[Swagnificent]

It's true. There are a plethora of studies on Somali Eurasian admixture. In fact every study ever done on Somalis concludes Somali are significantly mixed with invader Eurasian from a few thousand years ago. Don't believe me? Here's the study:


http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article/file?id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.1004393.s017&type=supplementary

"Second, we conducted three formal tests for admixture and found that eight of the HOA populations had statistically significant signals of admixture with non-African populations for all three tests (Tables S2, S3, S4)"

"The f3 bounds and f4 ratio estimates agree that all admixed HOA populations have around 50% non-African ancestry (see table immediately below|"
---


As you can see, Somalis and Ethios are similar to Mexicans and Hispanic. You are not a race of your own but rather just a halfbreed mutt population that came about from Arab invasion. Inasmuch as Ancient Egyptians are concerned, King Tut, Ramses, etc and their Ancient Egyptian relatives are recorded as 94%+ black African with the rest coming from contamination* or just genetic similarity between humans*

Breh. You either a troll. Or can't interpret data correctly. Arabs didn't even exist back then when this mixing happened. Also when is the last time women invaded somewhere?

Most of the non-African ancestry in East Africa is in the mtDNA (aka Mitochondrial DNA). You know the part of the genetic code passed on from mother to daughter. That is where you get the mixing coming from. The y-DNA of modern East African is largely E1b1b (which is purely African). Its the mtDNA haplogroups from South Asia (M and N) which form the large part of the non-African ancestry.

The fact most of the ancestry is from the mother's side shows that it was African males conquering the Near East and taking their women that created the modern day populations of East Africa. This is in line with what we saw in North Africa as well. North Africans are almost purely African on the male side of their ancestry (E1b1b once again). But on the female side of their ancestry they have loads of European ancestry. Directly in line with the fact the Moors imported in millions of European female sex slaves who they procreated with.

Your insistence of believing it was Eurasian males coming into Africa and creating these populations is why I suspect you are a white supremacist. Because this has always been the lie they have pervaded. That it was white Hamites coming in from Eurasia that came into North Africa and "civilized" the black Africans. When the truth is actually the opposite. It was black Africans that went into Eurasia and civilized the white savages and in the process took some of their women as sex slaves which they procreated with and created a new mixed population.

 

[Poitier]

True. The ORIGIN of the Ancient Egyptians is clearly Nilotic (or at the very least whatever the ancient source population was for East Africans). However, you cannot deny that as we move along in the history of Egypt, that as they started mixing with some of the groups they conquered that there was some mixing. And most likely as we move into the later era of Ancient Egypt you probably would see more phenotypes among the Egyptians that resemble modern day Cushytic speakers like the Oromo.

I think the Sphinx is the key. Its significantly older than anything else we know of in Ancient Egypt. Its also arguably the most incredible monument the Ancient Egyptians built (outside of the Great Pyramid). And if you look at the face of the Sphinx it definitely has features aytpical (though not unheard of) among modern Afro-Asiatic speakers. The features of the Sphinx are more in line with modern Nilo-Saharans. As well if you look at the busts of many of the first Pharaohs you will see that they typically had very broad noses and prognathic jaws. Both features that are atypical of modern day Cushytes but very typical of modern day Nilotic speakers.

So if I had to guess, I would say if we were around for the start of Ancient Egyptian civilization, they would look like the South Sudanese but as we move into the later generations they would start looking like East Africans.