European vs North American description of the Moors

[Im Kemet Rocky & I like penis]

The Almoravids ruled Europe though. And they were black.

The _29 (A-G) mutation is believed to be of Sub-Saharan African origin and is specially frequent in Black Americans (Gonzalez-Redondo et al., 1991). Its presence in Morocco could be explained by migration during the Almoravid
dynasty (1055–1130 AD) or through the caravan routes.

GENETIC TESTING
Volume 12, Number 4, 2008
Molecular Basis of b-Thalassemia in Morocco:
Possible Origins of the Molecular Heterogeneity

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Do you think these were willing soldiers?

Yes. Because not only did they outnumber Arabs/Middle Easterners by a lot but both were Muslims. So far I have not found any sources stating that Muslim Africans were forcibly enslaved to fight for Arabs.

Instead we find out that:

1. Masmuda Berbers made up the overwhelming majority of the Fatimid empire's infantry. You can basically say they were the Moors. There are no source's that they were enslaved that I can find, unless you can show me one.
2. Katuma Berbers, coming from C. Algeria/N. Niger, were described as black, and were by far the empire's most consequential administrators. Both the Katuma Berbers and Masmuda Berbers transformed Sicily.

Mind you, that same point your making about the looseness of the term Moor can also be applied to berber as it was a word Arabs used a lot. Black Berbers actually is in reference to Somalis if your thinkin in those times, I'm not saying there couldn't be darker toned Berbers but in general they were different from Black Africans and took liberties in making them slaves for their military, harem, or castrate them so they can cover their finances or some shyt.

But instead from that period we have this:

Fatimid infantry included "sudani or 'black' African and even Masmuda Berbers from the western Sahara ..." - See David Nicholle's Richard the Lionheart, Saladin and the Struggle for ... - David Nicolle - Google Books

Fatimid infantry consisted of "20,000 Moroccans (Masmudi Berbers), 30,000 Sudanese, 10,000 'easterners..." - Terrence Wise, The Wars of the Crusades, 1096-1291, 1974, pp 52

Like I said the Masmuda Berbers were the majority and black. They were literally the Moors.

And IIRC I read sources of Berbers in antiquity being labeled as Ethiopians along with other blacks by the Greeks. I'll try and find a source for that.

When you really think about it, we've been celebrating a slave society only because its nature was so radically different from the slave society of the Americas. Make no mistake, these "Black" Berbers are the same ones that served a death blow to the Empire of Ghana and exploited their once vast gold resources. Why should anyone get it twisted? Moors was a sand cac influenced society that kept Black Africans in bondage.

Are you talking about the Almoravid invasion of Ghama Empire? Thats recently been stated to be a myth.

Source:
JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

And again I haven't read any soures where Moors took any blacks as slaves. Like I said to @observe blacks were a minority in the Trans Sahara slave trade and I explained everything in great detail.Around the time of the Moors it was mostly Christian European women that were being enslaved, which explains modern day North African mtDNA being mostly European and their Y-DNA being mostly African.

I'm going to have to see sources.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

The _29 (A-G) mutation is believed to be of Sub-Saharan African origin and is specially frequent in Black Americans (Gonzalez-Redondo et al., 1991). Its presence in Morocco could be explained by migration during the Almoravid
dynasty (1055–1130 AD) or through the caravan routes.

GENETIC TESTING
Volume 12, Number 4, 2008
Molecular Basis of b-Thalassemia in Morocco:
Possible Origins of the Molecular Heterogeneity

I think I remember reading this. Thanks for posting.

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

I know they were under the caliphate regime...they held high positions ..I think they ruled for a few years..not enough info in Afrocentric sources,,I think it would be wise to look at Spanish history books from their perspective..

Nah, it was under several different Caliphates. It was started by one of the last princes of the Umayyad Dynasty after the Abbasid's took control of the Empire and killed the off. After that it was under the control of different groups including the Almoravids and Almohads whom were Berbers. Slavery was different in the Islamic world, in the Americas it was all about exploiting the labor of the slave for maximum profit whereas slaves in Islamic society were luxury items. Think of it this way, rich people have a lot of people working for them maintaining different things that they don't have the time or ability to do. This is why Blacks held high positions in Moorish society, not only were they considered great soldiers but also quite loyal(especially if their dikk and balls have been mutilated) and talented musicians and poets. Hell, you had cases where freed people would try to become slaves just to work and live in the master's house. But in the end those people were slaves, concubines were circumcized and exploited, eunuchs were sometimes sexual objects as well, it was a pretty sick slave society when you think about it. Just more opportune than the American brand.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

19th century...the Trans Sahara slave trade has been happening since about 7th century..if I'm mistaken..

Yes but like sources say blacks came much later around the 19th century. And still the mtDNA of North Africans is still mostly European.

 

[MostReal]

Coat of arms..show me a painting with a black male on the throne

you asked for it

Sultan: a king or sovereign especially of a Muslim state

 

[observe]

you asked for it

Sultan: a king or sovereign especially of a Muslim state

Cmon breh

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Also @2Quik4UHoes

Black Berbers was not just a reference to Somalis. When I say Black Berbers I'm trying to distinguish from the todays non black ones like the Kabyle.

But more importantly Berbers were always labeled as black during antiquity. And no they were not referring to Somalis. The Garamantes who wee a Berber people were said to be of the Ethiopian race by the Greeks. Ethiopian=black by the Greeks.

They even describe their experience as Negroid.

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

Yes. Because not only did they outnumber Arabs/Middle Easternerds by a lot but both were Muslims. So far I have not found any sources stating that Muslim Africans were forcibly enslaved to fight for Arabs.

Instead we find out that:

1. Masmuda Berbers made up the overwhelming majority of the Fatimid empire's infantry. You can basically say they were the Moors. There are no source's that they were enslaved that I can find, unless you can show me one.
2. Katuma Berbers, coming from C. Algeria/N. Niger, were described as black, and were by far the empire's most consequential administrators. Both the Katuma Berbers and Masmuda Berbers transformed Sicily.


But instead from that period we have this:

Fatimid infantry included "sudani or 'black' African and even Masmuda Berbers from the western Sahara ..." - See David Nicholle's Richard the Lionheart, Saladin and the Struggle for ... - David Nicolle - Google Books

Fatimid infantry consisted of "20,000 Moroccans (Masmudi Berbers), 30,000 Sudanese, 10,000 'easterners..." - Terrence Wise, The Wars of the Crusades, 1096-1291, 1974, pp 52

Like I said the Masmuda Berbers were the majority and black. They were literally the Moors.

And IIRC I read sources of Berbers in antiquity being labeled as Ethiopians along with other blacks by the Greeks. I'll try and find a source for that.





Are you talking about the Almoravid invasion of Ghama Empire? Thats recently been stated to be a myth.

Source:
JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

And again I haven't read any soures where Moors took any blacks as slaves. Like I said to @observe blacks were a minority in the Trans Sahara slave trade and I explained everything in great detail.Around the time of the Moors it was mostly Christian European women that were being enslaved, which explains modern day North African mtDNA being mostly European and their Y-DNA being mostly African.

I'm going to have to see sources.

Aight fukk it, give me some time to mark my points and scan these pages.

Oh, and yeah I don't know who's saying the Almoravid invasion of Ghana was a myth. I'm not buying it tho.

 

[MostReal]

Cmon breh

there are plenty of black males that are sultan's in that vid. Those are mostly Ancient paintings that you asked for

Here's some excerpts from a book called White Gold that @KidStranglehold was talking about earlier regarding the slave trade being Europeans

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Aight fukk it, give me some time to mark my points and scan these pages.

Oh, and yeah I don't know who's saying the Almoravid invasion of Ghana was a myth. I'm not buying it tho.

It is a myth and said to be by many historians in recent times. Here's another one.

JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

They state their are no sources that point to a conquest.

 

[Deluuxe]

This is the part that gets tricky. The moors that are depicted in these pictures, I don't believe are part of the Islamic moors from Africa. They wear chainmail, and Tunics, with no kinds of "turban", islamic moors ruled Spain/portugal/other places at certain times. These are the indigenous black europeans that cac's have tried to erase.

(Which coli nikka is that snitching to the cac's)

example of Islamic Moors:

 

[Sinnerman]

It is a myth and said to be by many historians in recent times. Here's another one.

JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

They state their are no sources that point to a conquest.

to add on to this

http://www.artsrn.ualberta.ca/amcdouga/Hist446/readings/conquest_in_west_african_historiography.pdf

 

[Bawon Samedi]

I seriously don't get why people are having a hard time coming to mind that the majority of slaves during the period of the Moors were Christian European slaves? It seems people have this idea that the ideal slaves were always of African descent throughout history, when in fact people of African descent only recently were enslaved in high rates. European slaves were so common back then because Europe was not as developed as it was entering out of the dark ages or prior to the dark ages. And because of that Europeans were vulnerable prey for being enslaved. Also being that they were not Muslim. Meanwhile Africa through out that time was very developed. Which is why Sahalian Empires like Ghana and Mali did not have to expand similar to how China never had t expand. There were no slave raids on Africans of the Sahel and Sahalian kings did not need to participate in the slave trade due to their kingdom being so wealthy, but more importantly having a monopoly on the Trans Sahara Trade. People need to get this idea of blacks being the ideal slaves out of their head because it is only a recent thinking.

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

Also @2Quik4UHoes

Black Berbers was not just a reference to Somalis. When I say Black Berbers I'm trying to distinguish from the todays non black ones like the Kabyle.

But more importantly Berbers were always labeled as black during antiquity. And no they were not referring to Somalis. The Garamantes who wee a Berber people were said to be of the Ethiopian race by the Greeks. Ethiopian=black by the Greeks.

They even describe their experience as Negroid.

Yes they were referring to Somalis it was one of those general terms, Arabs used it in reference to Somalis as a way of differentiating with the Zanj(Africans below the Horn) and Abyssinians(Ethiopians). You're basically suggesting with the Ethiopian point what I just made with the Berber one. That was the way in which Arabs used the term, it didn't just refer to the actual Berbers. Hell, Somalia was referred to as "Berbera" at a point in history. Lets be honest, even if its a darker skinned Berber that's not the same as a Black West African or some shyt and they didn't look at themselves in that context either.

Honestly, I should just suggest you buy the book() rather than having to mark and scan shyt. I don't even give a fukk if you don't take my word for it.