Elijah Muhammad is the greatest Black leader ever in North America

[Losttribe]

For the same reason Farrakhan was begging The Church of Scientology and Gaddafi for money.

He didnt beg scientology for money, and neven got any. The relationship there is free technologies.

Gaddafi offered money twice. 1 loan... And 1 huge amount. The usa gov blocked the huge amount and also the NOI didn't want to be a pawn for Ghadaffi (even tho he was a friend)

The loan... Was taken in the 80s but was paid back.


But ur point makes no sense, even if you weren't telling lies.

 

[Poitier]

He didnt beg scientology for money, and neven got any. The relationship there is free technologies.

 

[jackson35]

HIstory is set, nothing undoes what is done, so your first two sentences apply to everything than can ever be done.
A fight for white support for blacks and white funding of blacks is on the ball for what? White dependency is the only thing I see.
Time has shown us that if the argument or goal is black advancement, dependence on white society and a white supremacist power structure is not the way to go. It has failed.



You said he had no influence you last post now he used his influence, which one is it.
Garvey was commuted by Coolidge, and he was deported since he wasn't a US citizen and convicted of a crime. You have no point with regard to lowering his time, seeing that he never should have been convicted in the first place nor charged.
There are plenty of integrationist/communist, Bayard Rustin and James Baldwin off the top of my head


Easy look up Richard Wright
Richard Wright (author) - Wikipedia


I can cite you the personal writings of Engels and Marx as well

i said dubois tried to use the influence that he had. he didn't tell the president to kick garvey out of Atlanta, that was hoover.2 mr wright does not count because he was confused about his within the party. bayard rustin died a socialist pacifist. james balwin did not believe in overthrowing the goverment and his book fire the next time put him on white people shyt list

 

[Losttribe]

What do you want me to say?
They didn't get money from them. They NEVER ask (As a long standing rule) so even if they did get money... It would have been a loan or gift.

But I guess you're assuming they got money, with no reciepts.... But thats assuming

 

[David_TheMan]

i said dubois tried to use the influence that he had. he didn't tell the president to kick garvey out of Atlanta, that was hoover.2 mr wright does not count because he was confused about his within the party. bayard rustin died a socialist pacifist. james balwin did not believe in overthrowing the goverment and his book fire the next time put him on white people shyt list

You initially said it was Du Bois that got his sentenced reduced, it wasn't reduced it was commuted.
You then claimed that he had no influence, like I said its clear you have no idead what you are talking about.

I didn't say he told anyone to kick Garvey out of atlanta, stop making up shyt and rambling.

You said there was no racism in communism, Richard Wright explicitly documents how white communists refused to offer him housing after discovering his race. That is racism in communism, period. Stop lying.

You claimed there were no integrationistst communist, Rustin was a integrationist and member of the Communist Party of the US. James Baldwin was an integrationist and also for a time a Communist, a troytskite they claim.

You have no idea what you are talking about, do some research

 

[jackson35]

You initially said it was Du Bois that got his sentenced reduced, it wasn't reduced it was commuted.
You then claimed that he had no influence, like I said its clear you have no idead what you are talking about.

I didn't say he told anyone to kick Garvey out of atlanta, stop making up shyt and rambling.

You said there was no racism in communism, Richard Wright explicitly documents how white communists refused to offer him housing after discovering his race. That is racism in communism, period. Stop lying.

You claimed there were no integrationistst communist, Rustin was a integrationist and member of the Communist Party of the US. James Baldwin was an integrationist and also for a time a Communist, a troytskite they claim.

You have no idea what you are talking about, do some research

please upgrade your comprehension skills, here we go 1dubois on behalf of disgruntled garveyites wrote a letter asking to lower garvey time. the president responded by booting garvey out of the usa and back to Jamaica. this is coming from garveyites and his lawyer who rep him at trial. the cp did not trust wright because he question every fukking thing thery ask him. if the cp partys was racist what was he doing at the meetings? if the cp party was racist why were they helping blacks get housing here in nyc. if the cp party was racist why were they doing repping and defending the scotsborro boys? you think balwin love white people but yet he roasting them on books and on tv. rustin was about reforming the system which is why he became a socalist and a pacifist. do some some reseach homeboy.

 

[David_TheMan]

please upgrade your comprehension skills, here we go 1dubois on behalf of disgruntled garveyites wrote a letter asking to lower garvey time. the president responded by booting garvey out of the usa and back to Jamaica. this is coming from garveyites and his lawyer who rep him at trial. the cp did not trust wright because he question every fukking thing thery ask him. if the cp partys was racist what was he doing at the meetings? if the cp party was racist why were they helping blacks get housing here in nyc. if the cp party was racist why were they doing repping and defending the scotsborro boys? you think balwin love white people but yet he roasting them on books and on tv. rustin was about reforming the system which is why he became a socalist and a pacifist. do some some reseach homeboy.

1) No Garvey's 2nd wife organized the letter writing campaign to get Garvey out of jail, it wasn't done by Du Bois. (another lie you present)
Garvey fired his first lawyer who told him to take a guilty plea and represented himself at his trial, this is known, so what the fukk are you talking about.

2) With regard to Wright, funny how you taking up sides with racists whites who refused a black "party member" housing because of his race. Whites representing binary matters of the law doesn't mean they care for black people or see us as their equal. You are too old to not know this.

3) Baldwin was an integrationst and a communist, just like Rustin. This is a fact. You literally have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[motion order]

... Is this debatable?

This thread bears witness that this is really not debatable.
Since none of these men completely succeeded, so to speak, what case can really be for other than Elijah Muhammad. The best anyone has said in this tread is, "I like his ideologies more, therefore he was a greater leader. "
Off the bat, one can't be the greatest leader in the cause of Black liberation and salvation if they're carrying the whiteman's name.
Garvey King Newton
With Garvey, the Blackman was a negro,
Elijah said the Blackman was god
King flipped the script on his own philosophies after sitting down with The Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad.
Newton and his way of thinking would have got Black people slaughtered, and he died a junkie in the street.
Like you pointed out, Elijah Muhammad was a leader of men, and his best followers went on to be leaders of men. And there are dozens of unsung followers of Elijah Muhammad that are effective leaders in their own right. They are just not famous among the masses. People in this thread will just ignore the infrastructure that the Nation of Islam had under the direct leadership of Elijah Muhammad, so I won't bother reposting it.
And no one mentioned in this thread taught a body of knowledge outside of what they learned from the whiteman like Elijah did.

 

[David_TheMan]

This thread bears witness that this is really not debatable.
Since none of these men completely succeeded, so to speak, what case can really be for other than Elijah Muhammad. The best anyone has said in this tread is, "I like his ideologies more, therefore he was a greater leader. "
Off the bat, one can't be the greatest leader in the cause of Black liberation and salvation if they're carrying the whiteman's name.
Garvey King Newton
With Garvey, the Blackman was a negro,
Elijah said the Blackman was god
King flipped the script on his own philosophies after sitting down with The Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad.
Newton and his way of thinking would have got Black people slaughtered, and he died a junkie in the street.
Like you pointed out, Elijah Muhammad was a leader of men, and his best followers went on to be leaders of men. And there are dozens of unsung followers of Elijah Muhammad that are effective leaders in their own right. They are just not famous among the masses. People in this thread will just ignore the infrastructure that the Nation of Islam had under the direct leadership of Elijah Muhammad, so I won't bother reposting it.
And no one mentioned in this thread taught a body of knowledge outside of what they learned from the whiteman like Elijah did.

LOL

 

[Losttribe]

This thread bears witness that this is really not debatable.
Since none of these men completely succeeded, so to speak, what case can really be for other than Elijah Muhammad. The best anyone has said in this tread is, "I like his ideologies more, therefore he was a greater leader. "
Off the bat, one can't be the greatest leader in the cause of Black liberation and salvation if they're carrying the whiteman's name.
Garvey King Newton
With Garvey, the Blackman was a negro,
Elijah said the Blackman was god
King flipped the script on his own philosophies after sitting down with The Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad.
Newton and his way of thinking would have got Black people slaughtered, and he died a junkie in the street.
Like you pointed out, Elijah Muhammad was a leader of men, and his best followers went on to be leaders of men. And there are dozens of unsung followers of Elijah Muhammad that are effective leaders in their own right. They are just not famous among the masses. People in this thread will just ignore the infrastructure that the Nation of Islam had under the direct leadership of Elijah Muhammad, so I won't bother reposting it.
And no one mentioned in this thread taught a body of knowledge outside of what they learned from the whiteman like Elijah did.

I agree.

I am open to other viewpoints, but mostly people aren't saying anything solid.

(Even though I do have much respect for Bro Garvey )

 

[jackson35]

1) No Garvey's 2nd wife organized the letter writing campaign to get Garvey out of jail, it wasn't done by Du Bois. (another lie you present)
Garvey fired his first lawyer who told him to take a guilty plea and represented himself at his trial, this is known, so what the fukk are you talking about.

2) With regard to Wright, funny how you taking up sides with racists whites who refused a black "party member" housing because of his race. Whites representing binary matters of the law doesn't mean they care for black people or see us as their equal. You are too old to not know this.

3) Baldwin was an integrationst and a communist, just like Rustin. This is a fact. You literally have no idea what you are talking about.

1don't forget that dubious was a part of that campaign, try harder.2 you didn't answer my question in regards to wright, why the fukk was he at the meetings and writing articles for their newsletter if that bullshyt story was a fact? 3 that intergration shyt ended when Kennedy was killed, no intergrationist would write a book like the fire next time, and sponsor black radical going to cuba. the the fbi has a file file on baldwin that was longer then any of the people you are talking about. h rap brown, kwame ture said that movement was not about intergration, if you don't believe them then you are on the wrong side of the struggle.

 

[David_TheMan]

1don't forget that dubious was a part of that campaign, try harder.2 you didn't answer my question in regards to wright, why the fukk was he at the meetings and writing articles for their newsletter if that bullshyt story was a fact? 3 that intergration shyt ended when Kennedy was killed, no intergrationist would write a book like the fire next time, and sponsor black radical going to cuba. the the fbi has a file file on baldwin that was longer then any of the people you are talking about. h rap brown, kwame ture said that movement was not about intergration, if you don't believe them then you are on the wrong side of the struggle.

1) You claimed it was Du bois's work that got his sentence commuted, it wasn't it was Garvey's wife and her effort to lead a letter writing campaign. You lied.
2) It isn't a matter of if, its factually verified by him and others. You seem to take the word of a racist white organization over the black man living with what they did and writing about it.
3) Its a fact that Baldwin and Rustin were communists while arguing for integration. This is a fact, you asked for it and you were given your answer.

Stokley Carmicheal and H Rap Brown weren't brought up as examples, so what they ahve to say is irrelevant

 

[jackson35]

1) You claimed it was Du bois's work that got his sentence commuted, it wasn't it was Garvey's wife and her effort to lead a letter writing campaign. You lied.
2) It isn't a matter of if, its factually verified by him and others. You seem to take the word of a racist white organization over the black man living with what they did and writing about it.
3) Its a fact that Baldwin and Rustin were communists while arguing for integration. This is a fact, you asked for it and you were given your answer.

Stokley Carmicheal and H Rap Brown weren't brought up as examples, so what they ahve to say is irrelevant

1 how is it a lie when i said i said do bois TRIED to get it communted? you do know that they were friendly towards each other right? 2 your saying the cp is racist right? well what the fukk is he and every black writer doing at their meetings? 3 please explain to me how a black communist goes about arguing for intergrating in a society that he wants to overturn and destroy????

 

[Self_Born7]

I think Marcus Garvey had the most impact of any leader in North America. His movement planted the seeds for most of the movements that came about later.

that is true,,, b.u.t. we tend to forget Martin Delany, who is considered by most the father of black nationalism

 

[Self_Born7]

yes..and I think they bonded over hating W.E.B. Dubois

hahahahhahah

W.E.B. Dubois hated garvey called him crazy, for wanting to go back to afrika... as I recalled, when W.E.B. Dubois was president of the NAACP, he wouldnt allow dark skinned members, only lighter skinned/fair blacks.