EDIT: SOURCE MAGAZINE BIAS PROVEN TO BE MYTH - Source Top 100 Albums list

DANJ!

Superstar
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
8,439
Reputation
3,982
Daps
27,508
Reppin
Baltimore
The only one I'd take off the list is Salt N Pepa :scusthov:

Nah that first SnP album was dope. Sure, it's chicks, geared toward other chicks... fukk that, album was dope. Now all their other albums after that can kick rocks. But Hot Cool & Vicious got burn in its day.
 

Wacky D

PROVOCATIVE POSTING
Joined
May 10, 2012
Messages
40,458
Reputation
454
Daps
36,505
Five star thread. I would have add off the top of my head Blueprint, GRODT, Stankonia, Lord Willin', In Search of (Neptunes, and yes its hiphop), and I know the purists gon' hate on me for sayin' this, but that Thug Motivation 101 :banderas: The only one I'd take off the list is Salt N Pepa :scusthov:


:usure:

that salt n pepa jawn is better than all those albums you just listed.

You been sayin' all thru the thread they're "biased"... how's it not your argument? :russ: That's why I added the part about a stylistic bias, and even in that case, that wouldn't explain how they praised the fukk outta dudes like Too Short and Quik. I've never listened to a song by them expecting to hear some Rakim-level shyt... totally different thing...

The Benzino-dominated era is when he started doin' that power-abusing shyt like the 4.5 for Made Men... and then puttin' himself on the cover like somebody was gonna buy that... and then making the whole mag a glorified tabloid with the anti-Aftermath articles, puttin nikkas on the cover that werent even in the actual articles, pushin' the Benzino agenda, all that kinda shyt. I can't say it was trash when he did that ratings bullshyt ('99), but that was the start... around '02 until he got moved out tho'? Trash.


they praise just about everybody. but to what extent?

shoot, the late '90/early '00s was my favorite time for the source. i even went and got a subscription for a few years. i couldnt get into the whole elitist vibe that the source had. and apparently, neither could alot of people. thats why you had other mags coming out that clearly took an alternative stance to what the source stood for. i felt like the source kinda nipped alot of that in the bud once the late '90s hit. i always figured that thats when benzino started taking over. PROPS. i know he was stopping some of that nerd chit in its tracks back in the mid-90s too.

and hey, im not thrilled about the made men fiasco, but at the end of the day, that album was just as good and/or better than some of the stuff that got 5 mics imo. so hell, if thats his group and he co-owned the magazine, then why the hell not give yourself 4 1/2 atfer all that?? f*ck it.

as for the anti-aftermath(more like anti-interscope), i cosign that stuff completely. it needed to be said, and he was finally the one that stepped up and put his money where his mouth was while everybody else either stood silent or were coooning. i dont care if he had ulterior motives or not either. dude put his livelihood on the line so the possibility of ulterior motives is neither here nor there. you call it a tabloid pushing agendas but i bet you aint say nothing when xxl capitalize by turning into aftermath monthly and continued its unapologetic coooning for the next decade - even crowning macklemore as the hottest rapper in the game recently.:whistle: if yall wouldve listened to benzino, this wouldve never happened. but instead, yall were too concerned with the messenger, rather than the actual message.


and honestly based on album and impact etc... i gotta cut AEOM for makavel and me against the world

some might cut me against for AEOM depends on the person really

but again he has 2 albums on the top 100 of all time

think about this

jay only has 1 and in 98 he should have had RD and vol 2 to be real but vol 2 dropped september 98 so kinda late for that entry to be fair

nas has 1 and again should be 2 with illmatic and IWW to be real

mobb deep same thing

bone same thing

etc..

so if you look at the list 2pac is among the ELITE acts with 2 or more albums on the list

its tough to eliminate down to a top 100 list of all time for any genere

feelings will be hurt with what hits the cutting floor


the bolded is the problem. why should any of them have to drop? all 3 of those pac albums shouldve made it. they put a quota over his head like i said. they had to give LL his 3 slots. i dig. but they know dam well they aint have to put tribe, epmd or even public enemy up there 3 times.

of course jay is only up there once. he only had 2 albums, and 1 of them was brand-spanking new at the time and was considered a huge bust on top of that. and volume 2 didnt exist at the time dog.

of couse IWW wasnt on there.

you compaing IWW & hell on earth to e.99 eternal?:comeon:

groups like the roots and outkast are on there just as much as pac, and more than nwa, bone, etc. if thats not bias, then i dont know what is.

You're comparing the modern consensus of RD to what the consensus was in '96.
Nobody put it on the level of Amerikkkas Most back then.Not only that, you could make the argument that Dogg Pound was held in higher regard back then.
This list was made in '98...during that time, Dogg Food was definitely fukking with RD.Because Jay went on to become one of the top 5 MC's of all time(in terms of popularity), people looked back in retrospect, and started calling RD a classic.
I can see why they did it, though.'98 was the year Jay blew up.They was thirsty for the next "King of NY" and Jay was the pefect prospect.Boys with B.I.G...similar slick style of rapping---I think they decided to throw him a bone.
I wasn't using reverse racism as a literal term, but as an analogy to the "white privilege" that is east coast media bias.
All i'm saying is, if you created a public poll in '98 asking "RD or Dogg Food?" At the time, I'd be shocked if Dogg Food lost.During that stretch('96-'98) Dogg Food outsold/was a more popular album.
RD was lukewarm.Like I said, if Jay was from Oakland, RD wouldn't have been on the list.He wouldn't have gotten the benefit of the doubt.


theres nothing retrospect about reasonable doubt. the only different between then & now is that the mainstream latched onto jay-z since then. dogg food was never held in higher regard.

its like @DANJ! said. and not only was it a critical smash, but it was a huge album on the streets up top and it had hit records. "aint no niqqa" was bigger than any dogg pound single. and im not knocking dogg pound at all. i was a bigger fan of them back then, than i probably ever was of jay-z. and alot of people will prolly detract from dogg pound's sales and say that they got a boost from being under death row, as opposed to jay who had his own thing and was indie.

as far as the "being thirsty for the next king of ny" thing goes, youre over-looking 2 things:
1.) jay was seen as a potential future suitor for the throne off the back of reasonable doubt. so he wouldve been seen as a contender for "king of ny" by this point regardless of whether biggie was still alive or not. even 2pac knew what was up.
2.) by the time this list came out, jay had already released volume 1 and dropped the ball. im sure they had already reviewed the record in a previous issue. by the time this hit the stands, people were writing jay-z off. nobody knew he would close the year out the way he did with volume 2.

if jay was from oakland, or california in general, why wouldnt he be on the list? pharcyde is up there. souls of mischief is up there.
 
Last edited:

DANJ!

Superstar
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
8,439
Reputation
3,982
Daps
27,508
Reppin
Baltimore
Wacky...

One thing about magazines, is that you're never gonna agree 100% with their lists/rankings/etc... and they know that. That's part of the pitch when they do these things. There will never be a list in any magazine that EVERYONE fully agrees with. Not a chance in hell. It's not always some deep-seated "bias" going on... they might just happen to like some albums better than others. I think everybody's minds/ears work like that... is everybody biased?

That being said, you're saying this like its absurd that PE, ATCQ, or EPMD had three albums in the list- don't see why not, those albums are all considered classics. It's not about the number of albums, it's the albums themselves. Then there's stuff like E.1999, AEOM, IWW that people are debating which AGAIN, were not considered classics at the time. They've grown in stature due to their standing with people who were growing up then... OUR generation made those albums classics, not the older dudes who were still in love with the original golden era. I'm not saying I agree with any of them not being included, but I understand why they weren't. Just like a 30-year-old 90s-obsessed nikka probably would'nt even put ONE album from the last 10 years into a top 100 list today- but I bet a 20-year-old would cause it's the music of his generation. It's all opinions at the end of the day. These lists are never definitive statements, no matter how legit or not legit the source is (pun only somewhat intended).
 

mobbinfms

Veteran
Supporter
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
37,295
Reputation
15,390
Daps
93,585
Reppin
TPC
:what:




i have a top 40-50. with the next 25 completely out of order.
its in progress. i still have alot of top 100 contestants that i never listened to tho.

kool g rap & dj polo shouldve had "live & let die" up there if they were only gonna give them one slot.
spcm is outkast's best album. atliens isnt even top 100 material to me.
Drop that top 40-50 :feedme:
E. 1999 was only 3 years old in 98. Yes to me it was an Instant Classic but during that time Bone wasn't as respected as they are now. I think the Source was sleeping on E.1999. Remember this is why the Mic Rating system was so respected. They were HARD on albums, they didn't give anything 5 MICS.
:salute:
This is dead on the money. No Bone album was immediately hailed as a hip hop classic. And picking the EP in 98 was sort of a bold move I thought.
Tribe, Eric B. and Rakim, LL and EPMD with 3 albums each :wow:

edit..missed PE
KRS too :krs:
 

Wacky D

PROVOCATIVE POSTING
Joined
May 10, 2012
Messages
40,458
Reputation
454
Daps
36,505
Drop that top 40-50 :feedme:
:salute:
This is dead on the money. No Bone album was immediately hailed as a hip hop classic. And picking the EP in 98 was sort of a bold move I thought.
KRS too :krs:


barely anything was seen as a classic in real-time back then tho. this whole thing where people jump the gun and call any album they like a "classic" is some 2000s chit.

but you knew which albums gave off that classic feel and generated that classic following & interest. bone did that. pac did that. but some of these groups that made the list failed at doing that, but the source put them on the list anyway cuz those groups catered to their tastes.

:comeon: you know when i drop a list, i make a big spectacle out of it.

Wacky...

One thing about magazines, is that you're never gonna agree 100% with their lists/rankings/etc... and they know that. That's part of the pitch when they do these things. There will never be a list in any magazine that EVERYONE fully agrees with. Not a chance in hell. It's not always some deep-seated "bias" going on... they might just happen to like some albums better than others. I think everybody's minds/ears work like that... is everybody biased?

That being said, you're saying this like its absurd that PE, ATCQ, or EPMD had three albums in the list- don't see why not, those albums are all considered classics. It's not about the number of albums, it's the albums themselves. Then there's stuff like E.1999, AEOM, IWW that people are debating which AGAIN, were not considered classics at the time. They've grown in stature due to their standing with people who were growing up then... OUR generation made those albums classics, not the older dudes who were still in love with the original golden era. I'm not saying I agree with any of them not being included, but I understand why they weren't. Just like a 30-year-old 90s-obsessed nikka probably would'nt even put ONE album from the last 10 years into a top 100 list today- but I bet a 20-year-old would cause it's the music of his generation. It's all opinions at the end of the day. These lists are never definitive statements, no matter how legit or not legit the source is (pun only somewhat intended).


all that is already filed & saved. but what about the albums that came out after e.99 & AEOM that had no business being on the list?

you mean to tell me that the hip-hop community held atliens & illadelph halflife in higher regard than e.99 eternal & all eyez on me? you know thats not true.

what it comes down to is like you said, people like what they like and theyre gonna show bias towards that. these writers generally gravitate towards certain chit. and the record reviews ALWAYS reflect that. i picked up on that as a young lad because they made it painfully obvious. and theyre still doing the same chit today with the new set of mainstream rappers.

it really has nothing to do with generations. moreso tastes. cuz its plenty of stuff on there from the mid-90s. they just chose what catered to their tastes. and hey, they can do that. but i never took their opinions seriously or saw them or any magazine as the hip-hop bible. theres no such thing. i enjoyed it more when benzino was apparently terrorizing the offices - even before i knew what was going on behind-the-scenes at the source.
 

DANJ!

Superstar
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
8,439
Reputation
3,982
Daps
27,508
Reppin
Baltimore
all that is already filed & saved. but what about the albums that came out after e.99 & AEOM that had no business being on the list?

you mean to tell me that the hip-hop community held atliens & illadelph halflife in higher regard than e.99 eternal & all eyez on me? you know thats not true.

what it comes down to is like you said, people like what they like and theyre gonna show bias towards that. these writers generally gravitate towards certain chit. and the record reviews ALWAYS reflect that. i picked up on that as a young lad because they made it painfully obvious. and theyre still doing the same chit today with the new set of mainstream rappers.

it really has nothing to do with generations. moreso tastes. cuz its plenty of stuff on there from the mid-90s. they just chose what catered to their tastes. and hey, they can do that. but i never took their opinions seriously or saw them or any magazine as the hip-hop bible. theres no such thing. i enjoyed it more when benzino was apparently terrorizing the offices - even before i knew what was going on behind-the-scenes at the source.

That Benzino shyt was a joke man. It was. It was abuse of power, a lack in integrity, and hypocrisy all rolled into one. For one, the Source's staff changed like three different times in the 90s. You think a nikka driving away the best writers he had so he can push his agenda is good for a magazine that had already established a rock solid reputation? OK, I guess...

I still don't see the bias angle tho'. They gave props to good albums, dissed wack albums, sometimes over/underrated lots of albums, but it was lots of different artists with different sounds from different places. At what point does it become bias? I don't really recall them slamming anything that was actually good, and the only thing I recall them grossly overrating that nobody gave a shyt about was that Made Men joint. I think them dudes were fair more often than not... even artists they praised weren't immune to bad reviews when they put out shyt that wasn't on the mark. LL got bad reviews, PE got bad reviews, KRS got a bad review, Cube got a bad review... I don't see where you're goin' with the "they picked what catered to their tastes"- so their taste kept one Bone album out, but allowed one in... or Pac's best 2 albums in, but his 3rd best out? The artists you're claimin' were snubbed weren't even snubbed! :pachaha:

And I ain't even gonna talk about how u think that Made Men shyt was better than albums that got 5. You must be talkin' about the Lil' Kim shyt (another by-product of Zino and Mays' bullshyt) :mjlol:
 
Last edited:

blackzeus

Superstar
Joined
May 19, 2012
Messages
21,666
Reputation
2,825
Daps
43,534
Wacky...

One thing about magazines, is that you're never gonna agree 100% with their lists/rankings/etc... and they know that. That's part of the pitch when they do these things. There will never be a list in any magazine that EVERYONE fully agrees with. Not a chance in hell. It's not always some deep-seated "bias" going on... they might just happen to like some albums better than others. I think everybody's minds/ears work like that... is everybody biased?

That being said, you're saying this like its absurd that PE, ATCQ, or EPMD had three albums in the list- don't see why not, those albums are all considered classics. It's not about the number of albums, it's the albums themselves. Then there's stuff like E.1999, AEOM, IWW that people are debating which AGAIN, were not considered classics at the time. They've grown in stature due to their standing with people who were growing up then... OUR generation made those albums classics, not the older dudes who were still in love with the original golden era. I'm not saying I agree with any of them not being included, but I understand why they weren't. Just like a 30-year-old 90s-obsessed nikka probably would'nt even put ONE album from the last 10 years into a top 100 list today- but I bet a 20-year-old would cause it's the music of his generation. It's all opinions at the end of the day. These lists are never definitive statements, no matter how legit or not legit the source is (pun only somewhat intended).

:stopitslime: By who, backpackers?
 

DANJ!

Superstar
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
8,439
Reputation
3,982
Daps
27,508
Reppin
Baltimore
:stopitslime: By who, backpackers?

You can :stopitslime: all you want, breh. Lil' nikkas in middle school don't count. And for the record, no, I really really don't recall E.99 being put on some pedestal like that until MUCH later. If it happened for you in real time, cool.

I don't even remember people talkin' like that in real life anyway. I never had no convo with a nikka talkin' about "yo this shyt is a classic!" when discussing some shyt that just came out. We mighta said it was the shyt or somethin' like that, but that's as far as it goes. We definitely weren't talkin' about shyt the way nikkas do online, like "yo this album will be remembered 20 years from now!" or no shyt like that. That classic title is all about hindsight... it's somethin' people use to describe old shyt they love, very rarely have I ever seen anyone calling some new (or even two year old) shyt a classic.
 

blackzeus

Superstar
Joined
May 19, 2012
Messages
21,666
Reputation
2,825
Daps
43,534
You can :stopitslime: all you want, breh. Lil' nikkas in middle school don't count.

I don't even remember people talkin' like that in real life anyway. I never had no convo with a nikka talkin' about "yo this shyt is a classic!" when discussing some shyt that just came out. We mighta said it was the shyt or somethin' like that, but that's as far as it goes. We definitely weren't talkin' about shyt the way nikkas do online, like "yo this album will be remembered 20 years from now!" or no shyt like that. That classic title is all about hindsight... it's some shyt people use to describe old shyt they love, very rarely have I ever seen anyone calling some new (or even two year old) shyt a classic.

You're actin' like people weren't calling Ready to Die a classic in '96? :stopitslime: I respect your knowledge, complete disagree with your opinion.
 

DANJ!

Superstar
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
8,439
Reputation
3,982
Daps
27,508
Reppin
Baltimore
You're actin' like people weren't calling Ready to Die a classic in '96? :stopitslime: I respect your knowledge, complete disagree with your opinion.

I dont know man... I truthfully didn't have convos like that back then with that word being used. I have it now with fellow oldheads nshyt, we use it cause we old nshyt :pachaha: But back then? Just talkin' to regular dudes on some music tip. That classic word wasn't being used period, let alone about some relatively new shyt. I mean we can get on here now and say this is classic, that's classic... I'm just speakin' in terms of actual convos, nobody I knew was all "this is CLASSIC!" :russ:
 

blackzeus

Superstar
Joined
May 19, 2012
Messages
21,666
Reputation
2,825
Daps
43,534
I dont know man... I truthfully didn't have convos like that back then with that word being used. I have it now with fellow oldheads nshyt, we use it cause we old nshyt :pachaha: But back then? Just talkin' to regular dudes on some music tip. That classic word wasn't being used period, let alone about some relatively new shyt. I mean we can get on here now and say this is classic, that's classic... I'm just speakin' in terms of actual convos, nobody I knew was all "this is CLASSIC!" :russ:


I was in grade school/high school in those days, but I remember -'98-00 Ready to Die, MATW, Makaveli, No Way Out, E. 1999, Ice Cream Man, were considered classic sh*t by my peer group :manny: Aaliyah's sh*t was also considered a classic by a lot of my female friends in my peer group as well, and all those albums were after '94 as far as I know. That's strange as f*ck that in '96 you didn't consider Ready to Die a classic album :why:
 

DaveyDave

Superstar
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
16,229
Reputation
2,253
Daps
29,176
Reppin
Australia
I dont know man... I truthfully didn't have convos like that back then with that word being used. I have it now with fellow oldheads nshyt, we use it cause we old nshyt :pachaha: But back then? Just talkin' to regular dudes on some music tip. That classic word wasn't being used period, let alone about some relatively new shyt. I mean we can get on here now and say this is classic, that's classic... I'm just speakin' in terms of actual convos, nobody I knew was all "this is CLASSIC!" :russ:

EXACTLY what i was gonna say! i don't ever remember buying & listening to 36 Chambers or E 1999 or any album and talking bout "this is a classic" with my boys it was just dope as fukk and we listened to them all the time. i don't think i cared about the classic label for a long time i just listened to the music and liked what i liked.
 

DaveyDave

Superstar
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
16,229
Reputation
2,253
Daps
29,176
Reppin
Australia
^I'd say Ready To Die was. But that was a rare album that was classic off the bat.

i think it's an age thing. had i been 20 when Ready To Die dropped instead of 12 i might have actively talked & thought about labeling an album a classic but as a teenager i didn't think about it until i was getting to 17-20. i remember reading the Source when they gave Aquemini 5 mics and that was the first time i saw them give anyone a 5, i didn't start buying it until 96. after that i thought of some albums that i thought was worth 5 but they maybe only gave them 4.5 or 4, the concept developed more as i got older and got more into the music.
 
Last edited:
Top