Dune 2 - (March 1, 2024)

[nieman]

Its is the same story - different medium.

People keep.pointing out the stuff IN THE FILM that contradicts your assertion but you keep.declaring its one thing when clearly with even analysis from other peopl ( who also never read the books ) point out how this is not the story of a "white savior "


He isn't saving the Fremen they don't need saving - you say they do based on what one character says and its contradicted by the movie that points out the fact that that one group of freemen is not ALL freemen - they are ALL fractured

He isn't freeing the planet - the planet isn't even controlled by anyone but the Fremen - NO ONE knows there are millions of them. The Harkonnens thought there was only 50000 of them in ONE area ....this is the conventional wisdom that everyone has of Dune for theclast 10000 years - even the Benegesserit are surprised at how many Fremen there actually are

So all the things that a "Savior" is supposed to be or do.is contradicted by stuff in the film that he neither does or is - he's not saving them from.themselves the movie makes it plain he is using them- a white savior acts out of altruism and he is 100% NOT doing what he is doing for the benefit of the Fremen.whichis the WHOLE POINT of a "white savior".

the trope of a White Savior is that he/she does something that the non white character cant do for themselves but they are only able to accomplish it and live a "better" life through their intervention.

Paul isnt making the Fremens life better. he is making it worse - he literally turns them into a crusading mob which is something they NEVER wanted to be or aspired to.

Yooooo. I had all the same ish typed to reply with

Let me also add on that pirates/smugglers come and go to transport spice without incident..the Fremen ALLOW them.

The plan from Leto was always to get the Fremen on his side. He sent Duncan down there months in advance as his ambassador to win over their alliance.

But for the sake of argument, let's say the Harkonnens did rule the planet and enslaved that group...well the emperor pulled them off the planet, so who do they now need freeing from? The meeting with Stilgar was all about the alliance, and Stilgar told them, we cool. Don't bother us, stick to the script, and we won't bother y'all. If that's the case, they're already free. Paul isn't needed for anything.

 

[Art Barr]

Bout to watch this bullshyt now.


This garbage takes two hours.
to get to the first encounter with:
Shai au lud.

Then makes a phoney wakanda forever portrayal of the Fremen.


This shyt ruined a Xmas just like wonder woman 84 and a wack ass betounce album.


We will not be bullied by pretentious bandwagon dune fans. When my while recording gimmickwas originally rooted in what if dune was to take place in Chicago hiphop.

So I will not give this shyt a pass.
like these other fake ass pretend dune fans.


Now....

Esgetit.


Art Barr



Moad
Moad'dib
Usul
God Emperor: Christ heir

 

[Art Barr]

Spoiler

This movie was pretentious and elongated as fukk.
For no fukk'n reason.

Nobody is visually anything in this movie.
especually once a gain. Baron harconnen is not scary. When baron is supppsed to be the nastiest most repulsive dude probably ever written. Plus compared to the original.
this baron is weak as fukk. I never once looked on Screen and Feared the baron. In the original.
You pray to gawd baron floats off the screen. As the original baron was and still is one of the most visuallu repulsive scariest molester pedo villains in a movie ever off visual. Just thought of rhe original cinematic baron. Potentually putting puss on you is horrifying.
It feels like Hebert sons wanted to. Bring attention to their books like hoise harconnen and house atraides.
Where the studio said fukk outta here too. Which I found hilarious.
Plus they tried to turn this shyt into a cot damn rom com. By having chani not be chanI. Plus paul not be paul.
In thr book chani was never not secure in being with paul. Even considering what paul must do. In the book I do not remember chani being wqck and emo. I remember her being truly down for paul. Plus politically knowing to not be publically demonstrative or divisive.


It is like rhey want to make changes into this female love triangle disgruntled chick when it was never like that.


Timothy chalet is not believable as paul. Plus spent the entire movie moving and acting like a complete p*ssy.

Waaa.. i do not wanna be rhe quiz at hadarach mommi chani.
nikka is a bytch. Paul atraides was nwver this bytchmade. Even in the second book and he goes into the desert. In this version paul never exudes or shows any dominance. Especially against feyd. As Paul is huff as hell as a hero in this. He excudes no dominance. Nothing to make you feel like ypu are watching a movie franchise lead.
Timothy whatever his name is.
Is never is believable on screen. Plus the material does him no favors. As it harps to much on melodramatic p*ssy shyt. That paul should have gotten killed.
where you would havr never given a fukk. Plus they showcase.
they do not want you as a viewer. to give a fukk about paul. Plus they fail to use any of his powers effectively to sell for a motion length picture. Which is why i say the directors cut of the original is better. The weiring module attack and setup was better. My name is a killin word attack from the first one shyts all over this film.
The setup of tech in the first film with thr slow blade is superior to this. Plus showcased how dangerous the harconnens were in the death of Duncan Idaho and gurney halleck being removed.
This movie takes a turn. Where it deviates from the source.
if I remember exactly right that makes no sense. Beside bringing Corey Webster, or to you guys gen tha os Josh Brolin. Who can not save this movie. Plus never acts as a bolstering effect on screen.
to Timothy's portrayal of paul.
Everything about this film is underwhelming. The characters, the weapons, the pacing, wardrobe, even the effect of melange or spice is low budget. Their eyes are never really blue like described in the book. Plus pale incomparuson to the original. Plus they never get over why drug dealing is integral to this universe at all.
They never establish mental or any of that worth a damn in this movie. Nor do they take and grasp paul taking the water of life as integral to anything. As the take on that also pales incomparuson to thr original. Alia is a joke in this and of course was handled way better in the original. Not to mention lady Jessica is just to young to portray Paul's mother. Plus she is never regal enough to be convincing as a benefit gesserrit.
The worms are completely under whelming. To the point.
that it totally takes away any movie magic or payoff.
The last battle is trash. Like why reboot this movie and it pales incomparuson to thr original last battle. The last battle in the original is made completely epic. Plus it does not stop there as the original paul shows how bad ass he is in combat. Showcasing the power of maud'dib being a killing word. The fedyakin are a joke in thia compared to the original
as the original they showcase the training up of the fremen. Plus my name is a killing word discovery. Foreshadows and sets up paul killing soecual move whej he owns sting or feyd.

How has this movie garnered critical acclaim. When it pales incomparuson in every possible way. To an original movie magic style take of rhis property.
Which was called the worst movie ever. Yet the original does everything way way better.

Not to mention...
This is supposed to be a so-called true to adaptation movie. When this movie suffers from a studio exec not stepping in and saying this shyt has no drawing components.

Plus it totally exposes why Lucas made star wars and amalgamted all this shyt and condensed it down.
Plus Added light sabers. Plus why the other original adaptation had rhe weiring module.

Plus created sellable movie based commodities.

This movie is trash.

Sandriding on worms in this movie is the wackiest bullshyt I ever seen. The cgi for them is basura levels of bullshyt.
You never visually are captivatrd by r8d8ng a sandworm. Plus this movir removes any thrwst a worm poses. Plus they never really use the wormss effectively on screen in combat.
Where i had to ask. Why was this greenlit . When this is so undeewhelming.
Even rooting for paul and chani knowing what will occur.
Is so pretentious to make chsni i to this disgruntled lover is bullshyt.

The fake love setup and over dramatization. That still pales incomparuson to Paul taking the water of life was bullshyt.
This movie is garbage.

Highly avoid.


Art Barr



Do Not let these dune mothefukker bully ypu either. THis movie is charles barkley tturrible.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

i don't care about the book for this conversation.

Paul is the savior of the fremen. He brought them from hiding to running the planet, thru his special training and magic powers. They worship him for saving them...i mean...it can't be more clear of that. Even if he does that as a heel or it is a critique...he is unquestionably the white savior of them...

Breh, the movie is even MORE obvious that it's all manipulation than the book is. His mother has the straight up evil face whenever she's talking about it. He treats Chani like shyt. They say, "We are Harkonnen....so let's act like Harkonnens."

By the time he goes to war, it has been made clear that he is doing it for revenge and power, not to save the Fremen. He had more noble plans at first but by the end, the Fremen have become mere tools to him.

and yet when Paul showed up, he fulfilled their prophecy of being 'taken to paradise'...and now they control the entire planet.

The Before and After of the Freemen is DRASTIC.

Way more Fremen were killed after Paul showed up than before. An entire sietch was destroyed.

Keep watching, you'll see in the next movie that plenty of Fremen are more ambiguous than you think regarding where all this is leading.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

This movie was pretentious and elongated as fukk.
For no fukk'n reason.

Holy shyt the unconscious irony there.

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

Breh, the movie is even MORE obvious that it's all manipulation than the book is. His mother has the straight up evil face whenever she's talking about it. He treats Chani like shyt. They say, "We are Harkonnen....so let's act like Harkonnens."

By the time he goes to war, it has been made clear that he is doing it for revenge and power, not to save the Fremen. He had more noble plans at first but by the end, the Fremen have become mere tools to him.





Way more Fremen were killed after Paul showed up than before. An entire sietch was destroyed.

Keep watching, you'll see in the next movie that plenty of Fremen are more ambiguous than you think regarding where all this is leading.

I know he was manipulating them. To them, he saved them from their oppressor as Chani said. He is worshiped as a savior. This is my point. We don't have to agree.

 

[shonuff]

I know he was manipulating them. To them, he saved them from their oppressor as Chani said. He is worshiped as a savior. This is my point. We don't have to agree.

Your point is becuase the Frenan in the story are thinking g he is a savior that even if the narrative e and the story of the film is TELLING you he isn't - that makes this a "white savior " narrative for the whole movie ???

Bro you showing that either you don't know what a white savior narrative is or you're just being argumentative .

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Overall, I liked this a lil more than the first but I feel like the ending was a little rushed with villains we saw have great importance placed on them in the first flick and most of this one, casually thrown away.

They had to cut out some roles for the sake of runtime. In the book there's a whole additional dangerous "villain" who doesn't even make it into the movie and puts the entire outcome in doubt. Plus the death of the Baron is way funnier in the book, but they had to cut it out cause the character who kills him was neutered in this one.

And the book hypes up the Sardukar troops much more effectively. Again, I think that's something they just had to abbreviate here due to runtime.

Otherwise, though, the way that Paul just slices through the Harkonnen-Emperor alliance is pretty much true to the story. The point is that his enemies were once the danger, but now he's the danger, much like Breaking Bad.

Wait till the 3rd movie for a far more skilled foe to emerge.

I also feel this may be a series forgotten as time goes on due to the lack of quotables...all the great films have lines folks can say with no context, and we all know what you're referencing...this doesn't have that.

That's wild because the book is one of the quotable novels ever. But I can see how a lot of the best lines were kinda downplayed in the movie.




No more terrible disaster could befall your people than for them to fall into the hands of a Hero.



Hope clouds observation.



The people who can destroy a thing, they control it.



Gaius Helen Mohiam: The test is simple. Remove your hand from the box, and you die.

Paul Atreides: What's in the box?

Gaius Helen Mohiam: Pain.



Gaius Helen Mohiam: You've proven you can rule yourself. Now you must learn to rule others, something none of your ancestors learnt.

Paul Atreides: My father rules an entire planet.

Gaius Helen Mohiam: He's losing it.

Paul Atreides: He's getting a richer one.

Gaius Helen Mohiam: He'll lose that one too.



Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.



What do you despise? By this are you truly known.



Try looking into that place where you dare not look! You'll find me there, staring out at you!



You've heard of animals chewing off a leg to escape a trap. There's an animal kind of trick. A human would remain in the trap, endure the pain, feigning death that he might kill the trapper and remove a threat to his kind.



Paul Atreides: [before swordsmanship practice] I guess I'm not in the mood today.

Gurney Halleck: Mood? What's mood to do with it? You fight when the necessity arises, no matter the mood. Now fight!



The willow submits to the wind and prospers until one day it is many willows—a wall against the wind. This is the willow’s purpose.



The mind commands the body and it obeys. The mind orders itself and meets resistance.



Any man who retreats into a cave which has only one opening deserves to die.



Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind.



God created Arrakis to train the faithful.



Let's fight like demons!



I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

 

[Art Barr]

Holy shyt the unconscious irony there.

Did you review the movie and give it a rating tho.

Only reason I make reviews in a movie thread and not separately. Is if the movie is not good enough to garner a separate review thread. Which usually they do not merge. U like yesterday.

So review the movie.

I wanna read it.

I wanna read any posters review.

Yet y'all do not review shyt

Then wonder why you not a draw here.



Art Barr


You supposed to be;
the hiphop source meets consumer reports.

If you are not.

That is why you fail.

 

[Makavalli]

After doing a deep dive in the Dune Lore i realized the Matrix borrowed heavy from this franchise with the manufactured savior created by the machines to control a certain group of people. Faith is the ultimate tool for control

 

[Black Magisterialness]

Paul is bad...to the audience...but to the Fremen who worship him, he is their savior to THEM. I don't know why this part is being ignored.

Ehhh
Think of it like Obama running in 08 on a progressive platform which got a lot of young people excited which led to a big turnout in the election but when things settled down those same people saw that he wasn't exactly what he made himself out to be and it was more of the same as before.
In Dune it gets a lot worst

Both of ya'll are kinda missing the point though.

Dune is a deconstruction of messianic figures and authoritarian rule in general. It's kinda like how Starship Troopers got everyone who didn't think that hard about it to root for Fascists.

It's not just about him being a savior to the Fremen, its about how the Bene Geserit polluted Dune with this messiah story, got them to believe and then politicked, weaseled and genetically engineered themselves a space Jesus. The Fremen believe he's something divine when he's absolutely something that's been manufactured. Ultimately to the Fremen, besides Chani, that DOES NOT matter. So the fact he's god to the Fremen isn't being ignored, it's being very clearly used as a mirror to all forms of fundamentalism in our world. A world that often manufactures messianic figures to rally behind and often to the complete misunderstanding of the message of said messiah.

It's also not really about people seeing that it's "more of the same". Paul IS special and he IS powerful and he IS a fundamental change to the status quo.

 

[voltronblack]

It's also not really about people seeing that it's "more of the same". Paul IS special and he IS powerful and he IS a fundamental change to the status quo.

Paul isn't all that different from the Bene Gesserit, as he manipulates people to achieve his own goals of revenge against the Harkonnens and the Emperor. This isn't any better than the Bene Gesserit manipulating people for the supposed greater good of the galaxy's people.

 

[Black Magisterialness]

Paul isn't all that different from the Bene Gesserit, as he manipulates people to achieve his own goals of revenge against the Harkonnens and the Emperor. This isn't any better than the Bene Gesserit manipulating people for the supposed greater good of the galaxy's people.

Ah, but while WE know of their machinations the Fremen and most others do not. In fact, to the Fremen he couldn't be more different because he's manipulating them for their own ends. It's worse than "more of the same".

 

[2 Up 2 Down]

Both of ya'll are kinda missing the point though.

Dune is a deconstruction of messianic figures and authoritarian rule in general. It's kinda like how Starship Troopers got everyone who didn't think that hard about it to root for Fascists.

It's not just about him being a savior to the Fremen, its about how the Bene Geserit polluted Dune with this messiah story, got them to believe and then politicked, weaseled and genetically engineered themselves a space Jesus. The Fremen believe he's something divine when he's absolutely something that's been manufactured. Ultimately to the Fremen, besides Chani, that DOES NOT matter. So the fact he's god to the Fremen isn't being ignored, it's being very clearly used as a mirror to all forms of fundamentalism in our world. A world that often manufactures messianic figures to rally behind and often to the complete misunderstanding of the message of said messiah.

It's also not really about people seeing that it's "more of the same". Paul IS special and he IS powerful and he IS a fundamental change to the status quo.

Naw, I got all of that.

 

[shonuff]

Paul isn't all that different from the Bene Gesserit, as he manipulates people to achieve his own goals of revenge against the Harkonnens and the Emperor. This isn't any better than the Bene Gesserit manipulating people for the supposed greater good of the galaxy's people.

one of the huge things that gets lost or really hasnt been mentioned on shown very well in the movie is

(1) the importance of spice in expanding the mind ...i mean REALLY how it expands the ability to perceive things, ...it also expands the life of humans beyond the just decades ....people can live much longer .....the Spacing Guild is composed of humans that are so addicted to spice that they are physically mutated by it .....they dont even appear to be humans anymore.... but EVERYONE takes spice in some form - everyone.

(2) the near apocalyptic destruction of humanity of the Butlerian Jihad ( the war to free humanity from machines that were seeking to exterminate humanity since their AI saw humanity would eventually kill itself ) AND

(3) Pauls actual REAL purpose versus his stated "purpose" .

in the book the reader and Paul are aware - humanity is going to end - herbert gives all these details about how the world "works" and because you get all this background and interactions between the leaders and shotcallers to make you understand how humanity is stagnant and unchanging - they have lived in the same way for 10s of millenia - there has been NO change - the BG do all this manipulating and using and can ONLY see into the past, but they want to predict the future, and harness that power to use it - Paul is the one person that has that ability....especially after he drinks the Water of Life....but how power is used is so narrowly defined and perverted by people like the BG and its inevitable that the BG would fukk things up more if they were able to see the future they have fukked thing up now so much by just being able to see into the past -

so this examination about power and purpose this is what Dune is about - this was the importance of the dinner scene and why cutting it just makes the story and Pauls purpose in the story lose focus. ( and probably why it allows other ideas like "white savior" to be applied to it )

for example - the fact that the most important thing in the universe ( spice) that makes how everything in their society works, but all these "smart" and powerful people , had not once explored anything beyond that ONE city on Dune,

NOONE has explored anything beyond that city they think the planet is uninhabitable they think there is only a smattering of Fremen -and the Fremen who are in the millions live these individual separated lives - they just stay how they are....for THOUSANDS of years ....not just decades not just centuries ....but THOUSANDS of years.

so the world - reality is so out of wack so off that noone sees it at all - except Paul. BUT of course Paul is doing the thing that probably the thinking machines figured out thousands of years before. humanity has to be brought to near destruction in order to save itself from destruction by its own hand.

but of course its not Paul that is saving humanity - he is just inciting change - he isnt saving anyone - people have to choose to change

its not until Paul has a son Leto II who is much more powerful than him and the idea of the Golden Path is laid out but thats all in later books like Messiah and Children of Dune