Dune 2 - (March 1, 2024)

[Nero Christ]

Man I saw Walken and was expecting that exaggerated accent from King of New York

"Ya FATHER...was a weak man"

Overall, I liked this a lil more than the first but I feel like the ending was a little rushed with villains we saw have great importance placed on them in the first flick and most of this one, casually thrown away. I also feel this may be a series forgotten as time goes on due to the lack of quotables...all the great films have lines folks can say with no context, and we all know what you're referencing...this doesn't have that.

 

[Sad Bunny]

Gong to see this a second time on Saturday

Gym then home to shower then movies

 

[2 Up 2 Down]

...but now the fremen run the planet...because of their savior Lison Al Gaib... he is literally a prophet...and things are not the same...for them

It made things worse off for them. The prophet stuff was planted by the Bene Gesserit.

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

It made things worse off for them. The prophet stuff was planted by the Bene Gesserit.

How?

 

[2 Up 2 Down]

How?

Paul was basically a tyrannical ruler. At one point he brags that he had 61 billion people killed

 

[shonuff]

How?

because they reject the way that they were living which was in harmony with the planet and seek to participate in the madness of domination and control. they never had any thing to fear from anyone "beating " them they were already the best fighters in the galaxy - they outnumbered the best fighters the empire had by millions.

the harkonnens didnt actually run the planet except in name - they controlled one city that they never left and fought ONE tribe of Freeman for 80 years that they couldnt beat....


the message is not beware of white saviors its to beware charismatic leaders because of the affect they have on their followers - in Dune’s case, causing the charismatic leader’s followers to go out and kill 61 billion people regardless of the leader’s wishes.

By the end of the first novel, Paul is Emperor of the known-universe, is in charge of the most powerful fighting force in the known-universe, is worshipped as a Messiah by the most powerful fighting force in the known-universe and is literally able to see the future.

This almost comedically powerful figure has a desire: for the Jihad not to happen.

Flash forward the second novel and, despite all of the above, the Jihad has very much happened. In fact, Paul’s still trying and failing to stop it in the second novel.

And the clear-as-a-bell explanation for that discrepancy between desire and outcome is that it’s because the Jihad is driven by the Messiah’s followers - not the Messiah himself.

The whole “Paul’s evil and did Jihad” take is such a disservice to the sophistication of the novel.

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

Paul was basically a tyrannical ruler. At one point he brags that he had 61 billion people killed

Where in the movie we are discuss is this?

how is fate worse for the fremen that now control arakis?

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

because they reject the way that they were living which was in harmony with the planet and seek to participate in the madness of domination and control. they never had any thing to fear from anyone "beating " them they were already the best fighters in the galaxy - they outnumbered the best fighters the empire had by millions.

the harkonnens didnt actually run the planet except in name - they controlled one city that they never left and fought ONE tribe of Freeman for 80 years that they couldnt beat....


the message is not beware of white saviors its to beware charismatic leaders because of the affect they have on their followers - in Dune’s case, causing the charismatic leader’s followers to go out and kill 61 billion people regardless of the leader’s wishes.

By the end of the first novel, Paul is Emperor of the known-universe, is in charge of the most powerful fighting force in the known-universe, is worshipped as a Messiah by the most powerful fighting force in the known-universe and is literally able to see the future.

This almost comedically powerful figure has a desire: for the Jihad not to happen.

Flash forward the second novel and, despite all of the above, the Jihad has very much happened. In fact, Paul’s still trying and failing to stop it in the second novel.

And the clear-as-a-bell explanation for that discrepancy between desire and outcome is that it’s because the Jihad is driven by the Messiah’s followers - not the Messiah himself.

The whole “Paul’s evil and did Jihad” take is such a disservice to the sophistication of the novel.

So why did Chani call them oppressors? Why have the fremen awaiting Lisan Al Gaib?

 

[2 Up 2 Down]

So why did Chani call them oppressors? Why have the fremen awaiting Lisan Al Gaib?

Because the Bene Gesserit influenced that prophecy

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

Because the Bene Gesserit influenced that prophecy

Why does the source of that prophecy matter? I don't know why that point is reiterated.

The fremen said that they were oppressed.
Paul Atredes showed up, and thru his special training, magic skills, and influence he saved them from their plight and they worship him as Lisan Al Gaib and their savior. The source of that prophecy is not relevant to this discussion.

He is their white savior, regardless of how he uses them and how the rest of the houses and galaxy are impacted.

 

[shonuff]

So why did Chani call them oppressors? Why have the fremen awaiting Lisan Al Gaib?

Chani calls them oppressors becuase they kill freemen and take spice and violate the territory of Tabor - they've been doing so for 80 yrs - so of course her perspective is that anyone from outside of Fremen is an "oppressor"

And the Freemen have it as a legend becuase the Benegesserit manipulated their society since 10000 years before inserting the idea that some leader would come as part of their philosphy- again you're making a distinction about race becuase the movie uses a white actor for Paul and Non-white people for Fremen ....no such distinction is in the actual story - there aren't black or white or Asian only people -

Your whole premise of what the movie is about is based on an aspect that doesn't exist in the story ...
You wouldn't say its a white savior if Paul was Asian or black - but he would still be a negative - if the fremen were all white actors ( which is how it was in the previous movie ) and Paul was white he would still be a negative ....

Again for the umpteenth time you are focusing on something that really has nothing to do with the story of Dune and is only there becuase the director put it there for aesthetics / appearance..

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

Chani calls them oppressors becuase they kill freemen and take spice and violate the territory of Tabor - they've been doing so for 80 yrs - so of course her perspective is that anyone from outside of Fremen is an "oppressor"

And the Freemen have it as a legend becuase the Benegesserit manipulated their society since 10000 years before inserting the idea that some leader would come as part of their philosphy- again you're making a distinction about race becuase the movie uses a white actor for Paul and Non-white people for Fremen ....no such distinction is in the actual story - there aren't black or white or Asian only people -

Your whole premise of what the movie is about is based on an aspect that doesn't exist in the story ...
You wouldn't say its a white savior if Paul was Asian or black - but he would still be a negative - if the fremen were all white actors ( which is how it was in the previous movie ) and Paul was white he would still be a negative ....

Again for the umpteenth time you are focusing on something that really has nothing to do with the story of Dune and is only there becuase the director put it there for aesthetics / appearance..

I...am talking...about the movie...as presented. Not the book. I have not read the books. I'm not planning to read the books...I'm talking about the movie. Accept that. It is a different medium and different story.

The source of the prophecy doesn't matter. Again, people all across the globe believe Jesus is our savior and the source of the gospel doesn't matter if he parts the skies. Period. If a man walks on water and saves people from death it doesn't matter who wrote the Torah or the new testament...

You're adding narrative that didn't in the movie. Can you keep your rebuttals to the film?

 

[shonuff]

I...am talking...about the movie...as presented. Not the book. I have not read the books. I'm not planning to read the books...I'm talking about the movie. Accept that. It is a different medium and different story.

The source of the prophecy doesn't matter. Again, people all across the globe believe Jesus is our savior and the source of the gospel doesn't matter if he parts the skies. Period. If a man walks on water and saves people from death it doesn't matter who wrote the Torah or the new testament...

You're adding narrative that didn't in the movie. Can you keep your rebuttals to the film?

Its is the same story - different medium.

People keep.pointing out the stuff IN THE FILM that contradicts your assertion but you keep.declaring its one thing when clearly with even analysis from other peopl ( who also never read the books ) point out how this is not the story of a "white savior "


He isn't saving the Fremen they don't need saving - you say they do based on what one character says and its contradicted by the movie that points out the fact that that one group of freemen is not ALL freemen - they are ALL fractured

He isn't freeing the planet - the planet isn't even controlled by anyone but the Fremen - NO ONE knows there are millions of them. The Harkonnens thought there was only 50000 of them in ONE area ....this is the conventional wisdom that everyone has of Dune for theclast 10000 years - even the Benegesserit are surprised at how many Fremen there actually are

So all the things that a "Savior" is supposed to be or do.is contradicted by stuff in the film that he neither does or is - he's not saving them from.themselves the movie makes it plain he is using them- a white savior acts out of altruism and he is 100% NOT doing what he is doing for the benefit of the Fremen.whichis the WHOLE POINT of a "white savior".

the trope of a White Savior is that he/she does something that the non white character cant do for themselves but they are only able to accomplish it and live a "better" life through their intervention.

Paul isnt making the Fremens life better. he is making it worse - he literally turns them into a crusading mob which is something they NEVER wanted to be or aspired to.

 

[Jasonmask]

I fell asleep a hour and change in. I did the same w the first one, I like them and all but I think I just watch em at the wrong times

 

[DeuceZ]

Heard this is legit, will have to check it out. I surprisingly liked the 1st one