'Draymond's the greatest defender in NBA history' - ex-NBA player who played with Bill Russell

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Kings won the game.... nuff said

They did, but it wasn't because of Boogie dominating Draymond, because that didn't happen. They lost mostly because Durant couldn't get it going on offense.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Green can't guard big back to the basket big men. Green certainly cannot guard iverson

Let's ask green to score 20 every night and guard like he does now

Draymond certainly cannot guard pgs full court basically all game long throughout a series.

I'll play your silly game - even though Green can guard big back to the basket big men, and he can guard ballhandlers for an entire game, throughout a series; let's for argument's sake say that he can't. Now my question would be to you is (since you're using Pippen as a reference here), could Pippen protect the rim and anchor the paint all throughout a series like Draymond can?

 

[Hammer]

They did, but it wasn't because of Boogie dominating Draymond, because that didn't happen. They lost mostly because Durant couldn't get it going on offense.

Cousins dropped 32 that game though and i'm pretty sure every single possession in overtime he shot the ball no joke...ended up winning because of him basically cuz he dominated in OT. Dray got worked

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Call me crazy but I think Ron arrest was just as good as dray

In certain areas he definitely was. One of the best perimeter defenders all throughout the 00s - had more defensive impact than any other player on those Indiana squads by a good margin. However, he isn't fukking with Draymond as a rim protector and his ability to anchor the paint, which is the most important and influential aspect of defensive play. Have you seen any of the data I posted in this thread:

http://www.thecoli.com/posts/23482801/
http://www.thecoli.com/posts/23477613/

#1 ISO defender
#1 post defender
Top 5 spot up defender (he is actually leading the postseason in defensive spot up attempts)
Elite rim protector
Defended more shot attempts than any other player (defended 153 attempts more than Ibaka, who was #2) and held his matchup's FG percentage to under -6.1% (for perspective Kawhi defended 676 attempts and kept his opponents to under only -5.7%).

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

But if that's gonna be your excuse for every time Draymond doesnt guard the other team's best player, then that claim doesnt actually mean much (if it were true, which it isnt.)

It's not an excuse. It's the reality of the situation. Why would Draymond guard the best wing every night when the Wariors need him to anchor the paint/protect the rim and blow up PnR activity? Why would the Warriors take him out of his normal freelance role and have him guard one perimeter player all game? Who would fulfill all his other defensive roles with the same effectiveness? Have you been paying attention to anything I've said in this thread? You know what I'm saying makes sense - you don't always have to cut off your nose to spite your face when it comes to my posts. See -

I don't see how folk are askng why didn't Draymond guard LeBron. It's the same/similar reason KG/Duncan were never the primary defenders on LeBron. It's the same/similar reason why every big man anchor doesn't defend LeBron. Are we forgetting how many roles Draymond has on the defensive end that puts the Warriors in position of having an elite defense:

Guarding the low/high post - against legit big men
Anchoring the paint/defense (communicating where every player needs to be)
Providing help defense all over the floor
Protecting the rim
Switching onto positions 1-5, ball handlers and covering up defensive miscues
Shutting down the PNR/PNR and all activity around screens/pindowns
Guarding stretch bigs and post bigs
Able to defend every shot in any situation possible
Crashing the glass, boxing out big men

Dudes want Draymond to forego all of those roles and just simply have him guard one player. Imagine just how less effective the Warriors defense would be if all he did was guard one player. It's the equivalent of having a freak and the only sexual activity y'all doing is missionary with your clothes on.

Tell me, would all those late-00s Celtics squads be just as effective on defense if KG guarded the best wing player every night and did little else on defense?

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

nikka we have fukking eyes

And what do your eyes tell you?

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

The best defender in an era were nobody plays defense

Even if that were to be true, don't you think that would make Draymond's impact even more impressive due to the fact he has to guard players/teams that save all their energy for offense?

 

[GoddamnyamanProf]

It's not an excuse. It's the reality of the situation. Why would Draymond guard the best wing every night when the Wariors need him to anchor the paint/protect the rim and blow up PnR activity?

Chris Paul could average 35 points a night if he wanted, but why would he when the Clippers need him to distribute, set the pace, run the offense and get everyone involved? Anyway, hes still a 35pt a night scorer.

^ This is what you're doing with Draymond

You cant give him credit for things he never does because xyz excuse

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Chris Paul could average 35 points a night if he wanted, but why would he when the Clippers need him to distribute, set the pace, run the offense and get everyone involved? Anyway, hes still a 35pt a night scorer.

^ This is what you're doing with Draymond

That's not what I'm doing with Draymond. And no that analogy doesn't make one bit of sense whatsoever - never mind the fact that setting the pace, running the offense and getting everyone involved is all the same shyt; that doesn't stop him from also putting up points. His reluctancy to score stops him from putting up points. Westbrook is doing all that shyt right now: scoring at a high level, while also running the offense and getting everyone involved. In fact Draymond is basically doing what Westbrook does offensively, on defense, except he does it effectively - defends more total shots than any other player (holding players to -6.1% under their usual FG%), defends more iso posessions than any other player (holds players to 30% shooting, better rate than the entire league) defends more post-ups than 99% of the league (holds players to 31.9% shooting, better rate than the entire league), defends more spot up attempts than the majority of the league (holds players to 37% shooting, a better rate than 90% of the league), protects the rim at an elite level, anchors the paint, covers up defensive mistakes, provides help defense, blows up all PnR activity, runs the defense by telling players where they need to be, sets box score records for blocks/steals - the list goes on. He has the biggest defensive workload in the league.

These are all facts backed by data, whether you want to acknowledge them or not.

#1 ISO defender
#1 post defender
Top 5 spot up defender (he is actually leading the postseason in defensive spot up attempts)
Elite rim protector
Defended more shot attempts than any other player - 1332 in total (defended 153 attempts more than Ibaka, who was #2) and held his matchup's FG percentage to under -6.1% (for perspective Kawhi defended 676 attempts and kept his opponents to under only -5.7%).

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

And Draymond's defensive stats this season -

He defends the second most attempts per game (only .3 behind Porzingis) - holdng opponents to -5.7% under their usual FG% - the only player that comes close is Gobert (-5.8%)
He holds opponents to -12.3% under their usual FG% near the rim/paint (6ft and less) - to put that into perspective it's a similar rate to Gobert (-13%), Porzingis (-13.1%) and Whiteside (-12.5%)

He's protecting the rim at a similar rate to the BEST rim protectors in the league. All the while being one of the best perimeter defenders. He's elite defensively in every area. I don't think folk truly understand just how remarkable that is.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

a better analogy would be like asking
an all pro safety....ed reed, polamalu for example....to stop flying all over the field and making plays no matter where they happen to be ...and force him to cover 1 reciever the entire game.
that limits his ball hawking skill, his ability to cause havoc in the back field with an occasional blitz...helping actual corners over the top...just making plays overall...because you want them stuck in one area.
it's severely limiting his defensive skillset.
he's the spine of that defense.

Yeah, definitely a more appropriate analogy. My mind was in the gutter when I made that post. He's basically the Ray Lewis of the NBA: the passion, energy, work ethic, playing above his height/weight, Mensa IQ, versatility (defending all positions, in any situation) and revolutionized his position and the game from a defensive standpoint.

 

[ikbm]

Yeah, definitely a more appropriate analogy. My mind was in the gutter when I made that post. He's basically the Ray Lewis of the NBA: the passion, energy, work ethic, playing above his height/weight, Mensa IQ, versatility (defending all positions, in any situation) and revolutionized his position and the game from a defensive standpoint.

i used those safety's as an example....because yeah...they do have the athletic ability to cover single match ups...and when they do...they still dominate....but they shine at covering up everyone elses miscues and solidifying the back end of defenses.
they make the cornerbacks jobs easier, they make the linemens jobs easier...they make the linebackers jobs easier because of their versatility and ability to do anything at any moment.
iguadala can afford to be aggressive on his matchup...cause draymond is there to help...or communicate help.
curry lead the league in steals because of the trust he has in draymond....play passing lanes more aggressively
when lebron was dropping 40 or what have you...it was out of neccesity....because his normal options off the pick and roll werent there. his normal offensive mentality is not there at all.
lebron scoring 25...with 13 assists is more dangerous than lebron dropping 40 and getting 5 assists....lebrons skill is making everyone else around him better. you limit him to just his greatness you're better off. put draymond on lebron...he may not get 30 points....but that offense will start humming like a mother fukker without draymond out there to direct.
im starting to believe people dont actually watch games and only look at points in the box score as a means to judge players. idiotic

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Not even better than kawhi defensively

For all the 33+ posters that dapped this, can any of y'all state Kawhi's case for being a better defender?

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

rodman wasn't a great rim protector. and you could argue that defensively he had two separate windows: first as a perimeter defender, then when he filled out, as a post defender. but he was elite in both areas. i just dont see how dray is already a better, more accomplished defender than a two-time defensive player of the year.

I. Rim protection/anchoring the paint is one of, if not the most important aspect of defense - this applies to all eras
II. Yes Rodman did have two seperate windows (defensively), however for the purpose of this argument and relevance to Draymond's impact - the early-90s version of Rodman is more applicable here (if only for their physical abilities)
III. Draymond is a better defender because he has more defensve impact, period. I don't even think it's up for debate anymore.
IV. Referencing Rodman's two DPOY awards is pointless, given the fact that Draymond was robbed in 2015, he should've won last season and he's in prime position to win one this season (According to anonymous media poll, Draymond Green favorite to win DPOY). He rightfully should have THREE at the conclusion of this season.

more versatile? sure.

And that's half the reason why he's the better defender. He's elite at practicaly every single aspect of defensive play.

 

[DlAMONDZ]

Coli's irrational hate for the Warriors won't let them see it but he's definitely one of the goats already. Idk bout goat doe. nikkas like Hakeem and Duncan could be argued as goat

Kawhi isn't even the Spurs best defender btw. Dedmon is