Essential Dragonball Super? New series set after Majin Buu saga

[KOOL-AID]

Was he stronger than Goku?

Before coming majin vegeta?

 

[O.Red]

Vegeta unlocked ssj2 during the time skip please get your facts right.

That's a fact?

In the manga its confirmed that AFTER the Babidi upgrade Vegeta was now as strong as Gohan against Cell

 

[twan83]

That's not what you linked me says or any of the other versions that i've seen. During the whole 20 mins that they fought Cell didn't break a sweat and Gohan couldn't touch him. Cell was visually fatigued after Goku's fight and you could see that it took a lot out of him

the damn link shows and says there was some truth to what goku said
Gohan ssj power level up was higher than goku
Cell says it damn anime says it
Cell took a damn senzu after goku so he had power back
Ur thing was goku pushed him more in that form which is true
Gohan was still reluctant to fight him even tho goku told him and when he truly realized y his dad wanted him too cuz of his hidden power he really didn't want too
Majority of the fight gohan wasn't even throwing kicks or punches that their says it all
As many times gohan fought enemies he never does that shyt

 

[Airtrack360]

the damn link shows and says there was some truth to what goku said
Gohan ssj power level up was higher than goku
Cell says it damn anime says it
Cell took a damn senzu after goku so he had power back
Ur thing was goku pushed him more in that form which is true
Gohan was still reluctant to fight him even tho goku told him and when he truly realized y his dad wanted him too cuz of his hidden power he really didn't want too
Majority of the fight gohan wasn't even throwing kicks or punches that their says it all
As many times gohan fought enemies he never does that shyt

I don't really care anymore.

My main point was that Goku could have beaten Cell if he wanted to. Not sure how it turned into who was stronger in SSJ between Goku and Gohan but even in the case of Gohan being more stronger, he still wouldn't have been able to defeat cell unless he went SSJ2 unlike Goku.

 

[Raizan]

I don't really care anymore.

My main point was that Goku could have beaten Cell if he wanted to. Not sure how it turned into who was stronger in SSJ between Goku and Gohan but even in the case of Gohan being more stronger, he still wouldn't have been able to defeat cell unless he went SSJ2 unlike Goku.

I'm a little late to this, but seriously, if Goku could have beaten Cell he would have. He tried but he just wasn't strong enough. He could hurt Cell, but didn't have the power to put Cell away. As the fight went on, Goku was reduced to doing attacks out of desperation. He literally had no options left.

 

[KOOL-AID]

That's a fact?

In the manga its confirmed that AFTER the Babidi upgrade Vegeta was now as strong as Gohan against Cell

naw ssj2 goku and majin vegeta were stronger than teen gohan. the majin boost made his ssj2 equal gokus, you can have the same form but the power levels be different like how gohan's ssj was stronger than future trunk in the cell saga. vegeta had it but after seeing goku vs yakon he knew his ssj2 was still weaker and used babidi for a boost and to release the psychological barriers he had from growing "soft" on earth and returning to cold blooded saiyan saga vegeta.

 

[AB Ziggy]

I wonder what life's like for Shenron inside the Dragonballs. He's always impatient for nikkas for make their wishes so soon as he is summoned.

 

[Jplaya2023]

Goku couldnt of beaten cell in his wildest dreams.

Korin measured gokus power and said cell would still win thats when goku decided to prep gohan to win

 

[The Black Sheep]

I wonder what life's like for Shenron inside the Dragonballs. He's always impatient for nikkas for make their wishes so soon as he is summoned.

He probably be smashing Dragon bytchez and everytime someone summons him, they interrupt him mid stroke.

 

[R.U.L.E.]

Lol Goku did know how to have Gohan turn SSJ2. He explains it to him in the time chamber and he also explains it to Piccolo during Gohan's fight with Cell. But its up to Gohan to make the transformation and he obviously couldn't push himself to do it until 16 gave that speech.

As far as Goku telling Gohan he was as strong as he was, I think he was just gassing Gohan up and telling him what he needed to hear so he wouldn't be afraid to fight cell. We've seen Goku give it his all before and that wasn't quite it.

When he volunteered Gohan to fight he said he wouldn't be doing this if he didn't know Gohan could win. He wanted Gohan to fight instead of himself and the only reason he fought with Cell for as long as he did was so that Gohan could see how Cell fights.

There's even a point when Piccolo talks some sense into Goku and Goku panics and yells at Krillin for a Sensu Bean but Cells takes the bag of beans before he could get one.

Goku took a gamble and it eventually payed off.

But that instant transmission Kamehameha was proof enough that Goku could have beaten cell.

Filler.

Either I'm too old or yall really rewriting history for the sake of Goku stanning.

Goku couldn't beat Cell "if he wanted to." FPSSJ Gohan >>> FPSSJ Goku and it's very apparent in the manga. The anime w/ all the damn filler contradicts all the points that confirm the above (this is also in the anime which is why people always get confused/argue).

Also Gohan turned SSJ for the first time wasn't necessarily because of all his "friends dying." It was due to the fact that he was never strong enough to fight on his own and always depended on other people, while at the same time was too weak to do anything to prevent those he cared about. This is why during their session he tells his father he's the wrong person to be training him as it's upsetting him that he continues to be coddled. He tells Goku the only way for him to surpass him/ turn SSJ is for Goku to fight as if he's trying to kill him. And if he dies, then he knows this was the level he was at. "If I won't bring myself to die,there's no way I can obtain real strength: I can't ever become a super saiyan"

During the struggle is when he starts to realize Goku might kill him and says "damned if I'm running away from this" and starts to reminisce about how he was always pampered and was always the person to witness everyone else's death while doing nothing about it. He finally goes over the edge by confirming it was his own fault for being weak and he depended on everyone else and ultimately goes SSJ

 

[Airtrack360]

Cells regenerative ability is what prevented Goku from beating Cell. Not his power.

Cell was stronger and faster than Goku but Cell was cocky and was reveling in the fight rather that trying to "win".

Goku tried to take advantage of that with the instant transmission Kamehameha. It would have worked but Cell could regenerate as long as one of his cells survives which is something cell didn't even know till after he self destructed.

The cell games fights were not black and white and weren't decided by the flat out stronger person. Gohan was stronger than Cell but was weakened by the end of the fight during the Kamehameha beam struggle.

Basically just because Korin says Cell is stronger doesn't mean Goku didn't have a plan to beat cell and the instant Kamehameha was it.

 

[R.U.L.E.]

All of that is irrelevant.

It's stated that Goku as FPSSJ wouldn't be s me to compete with Cell. And then it's shown as Cell never uses more than 50 percent until the fight with SSJ2 Gohan.

Dudes in here really just making shyt up and in denial.

Goku could beat Cell...if we're talking Goku during his fight with Maju Yakkon before Buu is released. Goku in the Cell saga couldn't beat Cell and that's also why he chose not to waste his damn time going into the chamber again.

Also where is this bs coming from about Vegeta cheating to go SSJ2

Vegeta went SSJ2 during the time skip as Goku did. Goku was just stronger as SSJ2.

Vegeta wasn't aware Goku 'surpassed the Super Saiyan wall' (wasn't called SSJ2 yet) until the fight with Maju Yakkon when he did it real quick.

"Kakarrot also surpassed the wall...the Super Saiyan wall...during those 7 years". I'm paraphrasing and can look up the exact quote.

Also don't get it twisted. Vegeta didn't give into Babidi only because he wanted to 'power up.' Though it was part of the reason, his main reason was the internal conflict he had in wanting to go back to his 'violent' "I don't give a fukk" mindset. He got comfortable with becoming a family man and didn't like the fact that he wasn't the cold hearted person he was anymore and desperately wanted to go back to that but realized he also took a liking to earth and being at peace. Giving into Babidi allowed that internal conflict to be dissolved. Which is why after his speech he smiles and says how nice it feels to be ruthless again

 

[Skip b]

Realistically Vegeta is stronger than Goku if you compare them with the same forms.
Vegeta's SSJ, SSJ2, and SSJB are stronger than Goku's but Goku has better techniques that amplify his power.

This is all currently of course.

People are slow vegeta only allowed babidi to control him, was because he saw goku give up energy beyond the ss2 form with more to go vs yakon, exactly why he was so mad so after that fight.....He was trying to even that ss3 gap

The vegeta vs goku fight vegeta pretty much toyed with goku trying to force that new form, once goku said let's fight buu, he wasn't gonna be one upped, although goku had another form the power gap was minimal, he wanted to save the day himself n koed goku

 

[Skip b]

Was he stronger than Goku?

His ss2 form was stronger but he saw goku was hiding ss3 and allowed babidi to close the gap...

 

[R.U.L.E.]

naw ssj2 goku and majin vegeta were stronger than teen gohan. the majin boost made his ssj2 equal gokus, you can have the same form but the power levels be different like how gohan's ssj was stronger than future trunk in the cell saga. vegeta had it but after seeing goku vs yakon he knew his ssj2 was still weaker and used babidi for a boost and to release the psychological barriers he had from growing "soft" on earth and returning to cold blooded saiyan saga vegeta.

Finally someone who knows what they talking bout.

Both SSJ2 Goku and Majin Vegeta >>> SSJ2 Gohan (Cell saga).

Goku: I don't want any of my energy going to having Boo released so I'm going to end this quick

*goes SSJ2

Vegeta: Amazing! Even greater than the power Gohan had way back then (Cell saga)

*goes SSJ2

Goku: This may not end quickly as I thought... (Says this to himself)

The true debate should be whether SSJ2 Vegeta pre Majin is equal to weaker or stronger than SSJ2 (Cell saga) Gohan. I say no only because of the above statement referencing Goku's SSJ2 being higher than Gohan's although now his SSJ2 was also and equal to Goku's.