Exactly...
Don't you feel its just beyond obvious that an Intelligent Designer created all this?
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Exactly...
the chaos in the universe does not discount the order in the universe. this is a fundamental point.
for every example he gave of a "bad" universal design, i can come up with just as many examples of a "good" universal design. i can generate probably a thousand instances of "good" designs/functions in the human body alone.
plus his entire concept of "good and bad," and of "life versus death," is strictly operating from a scientific paradigm, which accounts for less than 5% of the observable known universe. so what hes saying might be true, but even so its only true for that less than 5% of the universe that science has been able to explore.
and im not even arguing for or against intelligent design, or an intelligent designer. this is a convoluted discussion right now because we have not established a uniform understanding from which to start discussing these concepts.
this topic is being clouded by personal concepts of religion, or god, or evolution, or spirituality, or any other mental baggage people may bring with them. so in actuality, everyone in this thread is participating in a different conversation than they think they are... EVERYONE is working within their own personal context because no common grounding information has been laid out.
but at the end of the day, the human body and the way it functions as a holistic organism is the epitome of systems thinking. and when you think about nature and the earth as a whole and all the ecosystems of life, again you are witnessing the zenith of systems thinking... things works in synergy with everything else.
gotta give respect where respect is due. this shyt aint random. god dont play dice. and a middle ground does exist between complete chaos and complete order.
I sincerely doubt that. Going by Neil Tyson's vid alone will show that in the cases of life and the inanimate universe, examples of disorder and chaos far outweigh examples of stable order. If you're really serious about this, then I would like to see you match the stats that he gives with ones that support your point about order.
Ok, but this is irrelevant, since it doesn't impact either of our points, though you seem to believe there must be great order to be found in that unknown. What if the other 95% of the universe is pure chaos? Either way, since we don't know for the moment, we can only go by what we have observed.
Fair enough. Why don't you provide some definitions for your terms and we can go from there?
Holism and functionalism are the results of skewed perspective, breh, as the video above suggests.
damn I was going to reply to something in here a couple days ago, but I forgot now 
*rereads thread*
*rereads thread*
MouseTeeth
All Star
It's possible that one exists. However nobody has ever died and come back to confirm the existence of God, heaven, or hell, etc so it's pointless to argue about it.
See, your problem is, you don't really know anything. We have been hit, multiple times with asteroids, and the only reason we aren't hit by them more is because Jupiter's massive gravitational pull protects us, guess where I learned that? Science class.
You know those colors aren't really what it looks like, correct?I felt that way when I first seen the Pillars of CreationIt's so beautiful
Damn, I wish I was born 2,000 years from now
I bet you don't even know how stars work or are created, since you just look upon it in awe like an ignorant child.
Do you know what evolution and natural selection is?
over 99.9% of all species that ever lived are extinct...such beautiful order and perfection.
I find it amazing that Leyet's treehugger nonsense actually gets props on the-coli. Pathetic.
from the scientific macro level perspective i can see how one could observe more "chaos" than "order," especially if one only equates order with sustainable physical life. that is not my perspective however. i do not only equate order with sustainable physical life... so again i think we are operating within different definitions of 'order' and 'chaos.'
i look into the cosmos and see harmonious motion and energy being shared to create and sustain the different celestial bodies... and i see this as a form of order because there is a predictable method by which the different celestial bodies move and interact with each other to create our universe.
whereas other people look into the cosmos and see a dead, inanimate, space that does not support physical life as we know it, and therefore classify that as 'chaos.'
and neither camp is necessarily right or wrong (although space is ANYTHING BUT dead and inanimate), and this could actually be a good point of debate. but i dont subscribe to the notion that there must be physical life as we know it for "order" to exist. that is not my criteria.
and for examples of 'order' and refined systems of integration within the human body just study the digestive system, or the respiratory system, or the central nervous system, as EACH of these contain hundreds if not thousands of examples of coordinated systems operating within their functionality, aka "order."
it greatly impacts my point because i operate partly from a metaphysical paradigm, and i have an idea of what is in that "unknown" space both through study and through practical experience.
but i know you do not operate from a metaphysical paradigm, so you are correct this point holds little meaning for you.
lets start with the dictionary and go from there:
cha·os/ˈkāäs/
Noun:
Complete disorder and confusion.
Behavior so unpredictable as to appear random, owing to great sensitivity to small changes in conditions.
or·der/ˈôrdər/
Noun:
The arrangement or disposition of people or things in relation to each other according to a particular sequence, pattern, or method.
now be honest, which one sounds like a better description of the universe? if the universe is anything, its methodical.
so the human body itself does not have several hundred if not thousands of integrated systems that work together in unison to keep us alive on a moment-by-moment basis? i wish you could see what happens inside your body when you eat your popeyes chicken, or when you get infected with a foreign substance, or when you have an injury-then you would have no doubts that your physical body functions as a holistic organism.
actually thanks to the podcast, the internet, and khan academy i think i can say with 100% accuracy what natural selection is lolbut before you start going down the rabbit hole of "99.9% of all species that ever lived are extinct" think about how much human behavior has effected those outcomes and how many species WE are responsible for eliminating, either through direct contact or by destroying their natural habitat.
...so when you walk in nature and chemicals combine in your brain and you think 'wow this is beautiful!' God has to exist ...?
See, your problem is, you don't really know anything. We have been hit, multiple times with asteroids, and the only reason we aren't hit by them more is because Jupiter's massive gravitational pull protects us, guess where I learned that? Science class.
Well its a good thing that Jupiter was randomly and accidentally placed there to protect us.
Well its a good thing that Jupiter was randomly and accidentally placed there to protect us.
If the world was perfect and created by a perfect entity we wouldn't need protection in the first place...
Well its a good thing that Jupiter was randomly and accidentally placed there to protect us.
Did you miss the part where I said you don't know shyt? Jupiter protects us but it isn't perfect, also if it had anymore mass than it does it would've become a star and we wouldn't even be here right now. We've been hit with Asteroids in the past that eliminated 90% of the species on Earth. I'm not even going to bring up shyt like Super Volcanoes which easily has the ability to eliminate all life on Earth and block the sun out for months. God doesn't love you or protect you, someday you'll realize this.
