read that Hawking theory I posted before and then come back in here.
Does infinity exist?
- Thread starter Ciggavelli
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read that Hawking theory I posted before and then come back in here.
DO YOU KNOW INERRANTLY AND ABSOLUTELY THAT THERE WAS NEVER A POINT IN TIME WHERE NOTHING EXISTED?
If not, then you dont know. Simple.
Its not saying that there wasn't either, but merely until you PROVE IT, then you can't take that for granted as fact.
Yes, for all of the reasons I mentioned before. Here's something else interesting you might want to read:
Something from Nothing? A Vacuum Can Yield Flashes of Light
"Virtual particles" can become real photons--under the right conditions
Feb 12, 2013 |By Charles Q. Choi
Wikimedia Commons/Emok, MissMJ
A vacuum might seem like empty space, but scientists have discovered a new way to seemingly get something from that nothingness, such as light. And the finding could ultimately help scientists build incredibly powerful quantum computers or shed light on the earliest moments in the universe's history.
Quantum physics explains that there are limits to how precisely one can know the properties of the most basic units of matter—for instance, one can never absolutely know a particle's position and momentum at the same time. One bizarre consequence of this uncertainty is that a vacuum is never completely empty, but instead buzzes with so-called “virtual particles” that constantly wink into and out of existence.
These virtual particles often appear in pairs that near-instantaneously cancel themselves out. Still, before they vanish, they can have very real effects on their surroundings. For instance, photons—packets of light—can pop in and out of a vacuum. When two mirrors are placed facing each other in a vacuum, more virtual photons can exist around the outside of the mirrors than between them, generating a seemingly mysterious force that pushes the mirrors together.
This phenomenon, predicted in 1948 by the Dutch physicist Hendrick Casimir and known as the Casimir effect, was first seen with mirrors held still . Researchers also predicted a dynamical Casimir effect that can result when mirrors are moved, or objects otherwise undergo change. Now quantum physicist Pasi Lähteenmäki at Aalto University in Finland and his colleagues reveal that by varying the speed at which light can travel, they can make light appear from nothing.
The speed of light in a vacuum is constant, according to Einstein's theory of relativity, but its speed passing through any given material depends on a property of that substance known as its index of refraction. By varying a material's index of refraction, researchers can influence the speed at which both real and virtual photons travel within it. Lähteenmäki says one can think of this system as being much like a mirror, and if its thickness changes fast enough, virtual photons reflecting off it can receive enough energy from the bounce to turn into real photons. "Imagine you stay in a very dark room and suddenly the index of refraction of light [of the room] changes," Lähteenmäki says. "The room will start to glow."
The researchers began with an array of 250 superconducting quantum-interference devices, or SQUIDs—circuits that are extraordinarily sensitive to magnetic fields. They inserted the array inside a refrigerator. By carefully exerting magnetic fields on this array, they could vary the speed at which microwave photons traveled through it by a few percent. The researchers then cooled this array to 50 thousandths of a degree Celsius above absolute zero. Because this environment is supercold, it should not emit any radiation, essentially behaving as a vacuum. "We were simply studying these circuits for the purpose of developing an amplifier, which we did," says researcher Sorin Paraoanu, a theoretical physicist at Aalto University. "But then we asked ourselves—what if there is no signal to amplify? What happens if the vacuum is the signal?"
The researchers detected photons that matched predictions from the dynamical Casimir effect. For instance, such photons should display the strange property of quantum entanglement—that is, by measuring the details of one, scientists could in principle know exactly what its counterpart is like, no matter where it is in the universe, a phenomenon Einstein referred to as "spooky action at a distance." The scientists detailed their findings online February 11 in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
"This work and a number of other recent works demonstrate that the vacuum is not empty but full of virtual photons," says theoretical physicist Steven Girvin at Yale University, who did not take part in the Aalto study.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/something-from-nothing-vacuum-can-yield-flashes-of-light/
Another study from physicist Christopher Wilson and his colleagues recently demonstrated the dynamical Casimir effect in a system mimicking a mirror moving at nearly 5 percent of the speed of light. "It's nice to see further confirmation of this effect and see this area of research continuing," says Wilson, now at the University of Waterloo in Ontario, who also did not participate in the Aalto study. "Only recently has technology advanced into a new technical regime of experiments where we can start to look at very fast changes that can have dramatic effects on electromagnetic fields," he adds.
The investigators caution that such experiments do not constitute a magical way to get more energy out of a system than what is input. For instance, it takes energy to change a material's index of refraction.
Instead, such research could help scientists learn more about the mysteries of quantum entanglement, which lies at the heart of quantum computers—advanced machines that could in principle run more calculations in an instant than there are atoms in the universe. The entangled microwave photons the experimental array generated "can be used for a form of quantum computation known as 'continuous variable' quantum information processing,” Girvin says. “This is a direction which is just beginning to open up.”
Wilson adds that these systems “might be used to simulate some interesting scenarios. For instance, there are predictions that during cosmic inflation in the early universe, the boundaries of the universe were expanding nearly at light-speed or faster than the speed of light. We might predict there'd be some dynamical Casimir radiation produced then, and we can try and do tabletop simulations of this."
So the static Casimir effect involves mirrors held still; the dynamical Casimir effect can for instance involve mirrors that move.
You linked to an apologist website (using his university web space) interpreting cosmology and astrophysics to conform to his religious beliefs
Word? http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Nave-html/faithpathh/bigbangt.html#c2
Do better.
Mountain
All Star
You don't know that ABSOLUTELY. And experiments in quantum physics seem to challenge you on that.
Yet you're here trying to challenge what you barely understand.
you haven't shown this to be universally and demonstrably true. Sure The way this works is that your conclusion will be true (at least valid) if all the premises are true. Your premises aren't all coherent.
Thats about HALF right.
Dude your tautologies aren't making any fukking sense.
You dont know that something has "always been here"
You just don't and you damn sure don't know the future.
Whether or not "nothing" can ever exist has NO BEARING on if something "does" exist.
Those are two separate questions.
You can't prove a negative!!!
I dont know sht about philosophy but youre making things more complicated than need be imo, think about it.
To create is to "bring something into existence", creation is a verb representing an action. Now since we know creation is an action and every action requires energy to occur, then creation must be done by something tangible enough to store energy and use that energy to create.
Therefore its logically impossible for something to come from nothing (an absolute lack of anything).
"canceling each other out." Wow... and here I thought I was confusing science with math.
Yes, for all of the reasons I mentioned before. Here's something else interesting you might want to read:
Something from Nothing? A Vacuum Can Yield Flashes of Light
"Virtual particles" can become real photons--under the right conditions
Feb 12, 2013 |By Charles Q. Choi
Wikimedia Commons/Emok, MissMJ
A vacuum might seem like empty space, but scientists have discovered a new way to seemingly get something from that nothingness, such as light. And the finding could ultimately help scientists build incredibly powerful quantum computers or shed light on the earliest moments in the universe's history.
Quantum physics explains that there are limits to how precisely one can know the properties of the most basic units of matter—for instance, one can never absolutely know a particle's position and momentum at the same time. One bizarre consequence of this uncertainty is that a vacuum is never completely empty, but instead buzzes with so-called “virtual particles” that constantly wink into and out of existence.
These virtual particles often appear in pairs that near-instantaneously cancel themselves out. Still, before they vanish, they can have very real effects on their surroundings. For instance, photons—packets of light—can pop in and out of a vacuum. When two mirrors are placed facing each other in a vacuum, more virtual photons can exist around the outside of the mirrors than between them, generating a seemingly mysterious force that pushes the mirrors together.
This phenomenon, predicted in 1948 by the Dutch physicist Hendrick Casimir and known as the Casimir effect, was first seen with mirrors held still . Researchers also predicted a dynamical Casimir effect that can result when mirrors are moved, or objects otherwise undergo change. Now quantum physicist Pasi Lähteenmäki at Aalto University in Finland and his colleagues reveal that by varying the speed at which light can travel, they can make light appear from nothing.
The speed of light in a vacuum is constant, according to Einstein's theory of relativity, but its speed passing through any given material depends on a property of that substance known as its index of refraction. By varying a material's index of refraction, researchers can influence the speed at which both real and virtual photons travel within it. Lähteenmäki says one can think of this system as being much like a mirror, and if its thickness changes fast enough, virtual photons reflecting off it can receive enough energy from the bounce to turn into real photons. "Imagine you stay in a very dark room and suddenly the index of refraction of light [of the room] changes," Lähteenmäki says. "The room will start to glow."
The researchers began with an array of 250 superconducting quantum-interference devices, or SQUIDs—circuits that are extraordinarily sensitive to magnetic fields. They inserted the array inside a refrigerator. By carefully exerting magnetic fields on this array, they could vary the speed at which microwave photons traveled through it by a few percent. The researchers then cooled this array to 50 thousandths of a degree Celsius above absolute zero. Because this environment is supercold, it should not emit any radiation, essentially behaving as a vacuum. "We were simply studying these circuits for the purpose of developing an amplifier, which we did," says researcher Sorin Paraoanu, a theoretical physicist at Aalto University. "But then we asked ourselves—what if there is no signal to amplify? What happens if the vacuum is the signal?"
The researchers detected photons that matched predictions from the dynamical Casimir effect. For instance, such photons should display the strange property of quantum entanglement—that is, by measuring the details of one, scientists could in principle know exactly what its counterpart is like, no matter where it is in the universe, a phenomenon Einstein referred to as "spooky action at a distance." The scientists detailed their findings online February 11 in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
"This work and a number of other recent works demonstrate that the vacuum is not empty but full of virtual photons," says theoretical physicist Steven Girvin at Yale University, who did not take part in the Aalto study.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/something-from-nothing-vacuum-can-yield-flashes-of-light/
Another study from physicist Christopher Wilson and his colleagues recently demonstrated the dynamical Casimir effect in a system mimicking a mirror moving at nearly 5 percent of the speed of light. "It's nice to see further confirmation of this effect and see this area of research continuing," says Wilson, now at the University of Waterloo in Ontario, who also did not participate in the Aalto study. "Only recently has technology advanced into a new technical regime of experiments where we can start to look at very fast changes that can have dramatic effects on electromagnetic fields," he adds.
The investigators caution that such experiments do not constitute a magical way to get more energy out of a system than what is input. For instance, it takes energy to change a material's index of refraction.
Instead, such research could help scientists learn more about the mysteries of quantum entanglement, which lies at the heart of quantum computers—advanced machines that could in principle run more calculations in an instant than there are atoms in the universe. The entangled microwave photons the experimental array generated "can be used for a form of quantum computation known as 'continuous variable' quantum information processing,” Girvin says. “This is a direction which is just beginning to open up.”
Wilson adds that these systems “might be used to simulate some interesting scenarios. For instance, there are predictions that during cosmic inflation in the early universe, the boundaries of the universe were expanding nearly at light-speed or faster than the speed of light. We might predict there'd be some dynamical Casimir radiation produced then, and we can try and do tabletop simulations of this."
So the static Casimir effect involves mirrors held still; the dynamical Casimir effect can for instance involve mirrors that move.
This does not support your claim: "there was never a point where there was nothing"
And a vacuum isn't "nothing"
Yeah, I could do better, but the theory still exists. Read itYou linked to an apologist website (using his university web space) interpreting cosmology and astrophysics to conform to his religious beliefs
Word? http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Nave-html/faithpathh/bigbangt.html#c2
Do better.
Prove it.
You're assuming this can never happen. if you're going to speak in absolutes, then you're going to face this problem.
godkiller
"We are the Fury"
The concept of infinity certainly exists. When one draws a straight line, the line can concievably continue forever so long as there's room for it to grow. Now whether the universe is finite or infinite is another question. I suspect the universe is finite, just as everything else is. So, perhaps, infinity in this sense does not exist. There is no analogy I can think of in which anything literally continues "forever".
The "theory" you're defending does NOT exist. Its a review of Hawkings book by a religious guy trying to confirm his faith!
Wait, you said time doesn't exist? Well, then since I can think right now then nothing could never have existed. Did you just prove me right by accident
Dude what the fukk are you talking about?
"time" isn't a thing. its a measurement we invented to explain things.
It does, it's something like the Hawking-Turk theory. Lemme try and find it
then if there is no time and something exists now, doesn't that mean it exists "always"