Does anyone else feel like solo comic book films are suffering from having universe building?

[Dominic Brehetto]

Lets go down the list of shows people talk about as some of the greatest in recent history.

The Wire
The Walking Dead
The Sopranos
Breaking Bad
Mad Men
Sons of Anarchy
American Horror Story
Band of Brothers
Game of Thrones
True Detective

Its a clear pattern there, and those shows really catch the eye of the prime younger demographic. There are very few new hit episodic shows hitting the airwaves and the ones that remain popular like NCIS have a pretty substantial older viewing demographic.



Also what theater did yall watch Civil War in? In my theater the Spider Man bits got the most laughs and applause. Folks loved every bit of screen time he received.

You went from saying all the smash hit shows to now talking about quality. Two totally different points. I don't even know what point you're trying to make now. You can't compare tv shows to films anyway it makes no sense. I don't even know why people keep bringing up tv shows.

But if you want to get into quality,the dark knight is still the best comic book film ever made. And it's a self contained story.

 

[TheGodling]

I do think so, but mostly because studios are still in the early stages of building said cinematic universes that they haven't developed to their full potential, which is a fully established universe in which different kind of stories, big and small, can take place.

The news about the Black Widow movie is a good example. There's no reason a movie like that couldn't exist but most people think it's inconceivable that people would care about a Black Widow movie after seeing the Avengers battle Thanos in space to save the entire universe. Right now the heat is turned so far on to go bigger and bigger that nobody is realizing that occasionally it's alright (and even preferable) to take a step back and keep it simple. Right now Marvel only really does that with its Netflix tv-shows, and even that's only because it's a tv-show. But there's no reason to believe that if Marvel put out a Daredevil movie built on the tv-show, without any tie-ins to the MCU, it couldn't be successful. But it would be a different kind of success, one that Marvel as a studio is indifferent towards because why try to go for a 50 million dollar profit when you got the formula to make a 500 million dollar profit.

And ironically Deadpool turned out to be the movie that did it right. It's a stand-alone movie with tie-in characters that fit in perfectly because the X-Men universe has been long and widely established so it doesn't feel forced or out of place. People get that there is more going on in that world than just the X-Men fighting evil all the damn time, and that's the point where solo movies, no matter how many tie-in characters or subplots are a part of it, start feeling like a stand alone movie again. But they gotta start telling stories that simply happen in the universe instead of trying to constantly add to it.

 

[MartyMcFly]

Lets go down the list of shows people talk about as some of the greatest in recent history.

The Wire
The Walking Dead
The Sopranos
Breaking Bad
Mad Men
Sons of Anarchy
American Horror Story
Band of Brothers
Game of Thrones
True Detective

Its a clear pattern there, and those shows really catch the eye of the prime younger demographic. There are very few new hit episodic shows hitting the airwaves and the ones that remain popular like NCIS have a pretty substantial older viewing demographic.

Of course most movies are standalone stories. Most movies arent based on source material where a shared universe exists as comic movies clearly are.


Also what theater did yall watch Civil War in? In my theater the Spider Man bits got the most laughs and applause. Folks loved every bit of screen time he received. Are you speaking from a stance of what what the most sense story wise or what people actually enjoy seeing?

The one thing I'd ding you on is that the sopranos and mad men are a lot more episodic than something like the wire or the walking dead. Yes, there were overarching stories from season to season, but each episode told its own story that was wrapped up by the time the credits rolled. Just like the flash, which is one of the best comic book adaptations period, tv or otherwise. There's a way to tell a story for an entire season while still telling your story in an hour

 

[Dominic Brehetto]

I do think so, but mostly because studios are still in the early stages of building said cinematic universes that they haven't developed to their full potential, which is a fully established universe in which different kind of stories, big and small, can take place.

The news about the Black Widow movie is a good example. There's no reason a movie like that couldn't exist but most people think it's inconceivable that people would care about a Black Widow movie after seeing the Avengers battle Thanos in space to save the entire universe. Right now the heat is turned so far on to go bigger and bigger that nobody is realizing that occasionally it's alright (and even preferable) to take a step back and keep it simple. Right now Marvel only really does that with its Netflix tv-shows, and even that's only because it's a tv-show. But there's no reason to believe that if Marvel put out a Daredevil movie built on the tv-show, without any tie-ins to the MCU, it couldn't be successful. But it would be a different kind of success, one that Marvel as a studio is indifferent towards because why try to go for a 50 million dollar profit when you got the formula to make a 500 million dollar profit.

And ironically Deadpool turned out to be the movie that did it right. It's a stand-alone movie with tie-in characters that fit in perfectly because the X-Men universe has been long and widely established so it doesn't feel forced or out of place. People get that there is more going on in that world than just the X-Men fighting evil all the damn time, and that's the point where solo movies, no matter how many tie-in characters or subplots are a part of it, start feeling like a stand alone movie again. But they gotta start telling stories that simply happen in the universe instead of trying to constantly add to it.

Good point about black widow.

I was reading through that thread like kind of shocked how backwards everybody sounded.

Are the audiences okay with things being dialed back with smaller stories with less stakes or does it always have to be blockbuster the world's about to end stuff

After infinite war return of the cash flow how will they proceed? Can audiences accept less stakes

 

[Jazzy B.]

Breh you've gone full retard. If you're trying to say it's like one long season of a TV show that would be one of the woat tv shows of all time. The comparison is dumb and makes little sense. That would make a horrible,horrible disjointed tv show.

He means the movies are following the format of a serialized TV show.

Why do you think these movies are categorised and broken down into "phases" i.e. "Phase 1" in the first place?. It's just another of way of saying "Season X".

There's no difference between Daredevil Season 1 and "Phase 1" of the movies other than the scale and number of main characters (1 v 4). Both operated as long continuous storylines to an eventual ending/conclusion over multiple episodes.

 

[Poetical Poltergeist]

It works and it doesnt. CW is just too bloated. All these characters which is coo, but just makes an already too long movie even longer. Let's get to the meat of these movies. I don't care about vision, he doesn't even do anything.

 

[The_Sheff]

You went from saying all the smash hit shows to now talking about quality. Two totally different points. I don't even know what point you're trying to make now. You can't compare tv shows to films anyway it makes no sense. I don't even know why people keep bringing up tv shows.

But if you want to get into quality,the dark knight is still the best comic book film ever made. And it's a self contained story.

My original quote was

Exactly this. Its not a coincidence that most of the smash hit shows now are shows that follow a set story line from episode to episode and even season to season.

Where did i make a different point? Like i said, most of the big hit shows now have continuous story lines.

Ok so you bring up the Dark Knight as an example showing the greatest comic book film is a self contained story but that doesnt prove that shared universes are a bad thing for comic movies in general as i can bring up prior self contained Batman movies that were god awful. The fact that a movie is self contained has no bearing on the probability of the end product being good. In fact before the MCU the Nolan Batman movies were looked at as an example of a comic movie being good, instead of the usual crap we used to get. A good comic movie was the exception, not the norm that the MCU has made it.

 

[Wild self]

Jesus you post like such a corporate shill for Disney

The dikkriding of Marvel is disgusting. It's not even objective anymore.

 

[Dominic Brehetto]

My original quote was



Where did i make a different point? Like i said, most of the big hit shows now have continuous story lines.

Ok so you bring up the Dark Knight as an example showing the greatest comic book film is a self contained story but that doesnt prove that shared universes are a bad thing for comic movies in general as i can bring up prior self contained Batman movies that were god awful. The fact that a movie is self contained has no bearing on the probability of the end product being good. In fact before the MCU the Nolan Batman movies were looked at as an example of a comic movie being good, instead of the usual crap we used to get. A good comic movie was the exception, not the norm that the MCU has made it.

I just don't think you can compare tv and film as a medium like this

 

[The_Sheff]

Good point about black widow.

I was reading through that thread like kind of shocked how backwards everybody sounded.

Are the audiences okay with things being dialed back with smaller stories with less stakes or does it always have to be blockbuster the world's about to end stuff

After infinite war return of the cash flow how will they proceed? Can audiences accept less stakes

Spoiler: Civil War Spoiler

Well the villain in Civil War wasnt trying to end or takeover the world. In fact part of his plan eliminated a tool he could have used to do just that. He was just pissed that his family died in AoU. Also Ant-Man was not an end of the world scenario.

 

[TheGodling]

Good point about black widow.

I was reading through that thread like kind of shocked how backwards everybody sounded.

Are the audiences okay with things being dialed back with smaller stories with less stakes or does it always have to be blockbuster the world's about to end stuff

After infinite war return of the cash flow how will they proceed? Can audiences accept less stakes

I think audiences accept that easily, the question is if the studios are willing to accept that they're going to reach that ceiling. That's where Marvel's post-Infinity War plans start to become really important, because the way they treat individual stories taking place in their universe will have to change.

 

[TNC]

i'm the opposite, i think they should be making standalone stories. i had trouble finishing daredevil on netflix precisely because of it's season long story arc. they could try and turn superheroes into dramas but it feels like an apologetic approach.

hour long, self contained stories would have been the way to go. each episode is like it's own mini movie. you could introduce so many more characters that way and do so many more interesting stories. i don't need 13 episodes fleshing out the origin.

as far as the movie universe is concerned again i think they would benefit more from self contained stories. they can still plant seeds for future crossovers without diluting the movies.

Bruh, the reality is that these franchise movies may not be for you then. The self contained stories are in large and abundant quantities, go look for them and enjoy them. But that's not how us comic fans like our Superhero movies. It goes against the very nature of comic book stories in general. I'm sure there will be plenty of Jonah Hexes, V for Vendettas and Django for you to watch, but if history has shown anything these franchise movies like Star Wars, Lord of the Rings and Marvel and DC properties, the franchises are what carries the market these days.

 

[AnonymityX1000]

The dikkriding of Marvel is disgusting. It's not even objective anymore.

But you're the one running around saying DC is trying to make people better. lol

 

[AnonymityX1000]

The dikkriding of Marvel is disgusting. It's not even objective anymore.

But you're the one running around saying DC is trying to make people better. lol

 

[Wild self]

But you're the one running around saying DC is trying to make people better. lol

They are. Why else their animated shows and best storyline are among literature?

I'm objective as hell and said that BvS is a 7.5 out of 10 and talk about the few editing flaws That hampered the film.

You go around and say that Ironman 3 is a good film.