Discussing Tony and Christopher's relationship in The Sopranos

[Black Ball]

It was before someone edited it

Aight, my bad. That's pretty deplorable then. How nigs aint got no common sense or decency?

I seen people complain about spoilers in discussion threads of shows they aint watched yet, thought that was the case.

 

[Mr. Pink]

There's a scene somewhere where Tony says, either he about AJ or Jackie Aprille, that he doesn't want him involved in the mob life. Chris then goes "What, and it's ok for me?" or sth like that - Tony then looks dumbfounded and doesn't have a response.

Exactly. Tony never really did anything to earn Chris' loyalty. He only had Chris' best interest at mind when it suited him.

People who are saying Tony wanted Chris to become a boss and succeed him are wrong. They've missed a few things. Tony wanted Chris to become a lightning rod for the FEDS, to keep to heat off himself.

In one of the earlier seasons Tony mentions to Melfi that a guy in his position, a boss, most of the time he ends up dead or in jail. So he says he plans to trust only blood. He says that more and more he's going to isolate himself and pass his orders through his family, and limiting his exposure to wiretaps and rats. Meaning through Chris. Essentially Tony was going to use Chris for all he was worth and then sacrifice him to the feds.

Later in S6 when Tony and Bobby are at the lake Tony mentions that there's someone he's been bringing along through the ranks(Chris) to isolate himself from the day to day. But that lately between them there are "diverting agendas". And we later see that Tony replaces Chris with Bobby. Bobby is becoming more and more trusted and Chris is getting phased out.

That's the real reason Tony killed Chris, because he outlived his usefulness. Not because of no baby seat bullshyt.

 

[MidniteJay]

Exactly. Tony never really did anything to earn Chris' loyalty. He only had Chris' best interest at mind when it suited him.

People who are saying Tony wanted Chris to become a boss and succeed him are wrong. They've missed a few things. Tony wanted Chris to become a lightning rod for the FEDS, to keep to heat off himself.

In one of the earlier seasons Tony mentions to Melfi that a guy in his position, a boss, most of the time he ends up dead or in jail. So he says he plans to trust only blood. He says that more and more he's going to isolate himself and pass his orders through his family, and limiting his exposure to wiretaps and rats. Meaning through Chris. Essentially Tony was going to use Chris for all he was worth and then sacrifice him to the feds.

Later in S6 when Tony and Bobby are at the lake Tony mentions that there's someone he's been bringing along through the ranks(Chris) to isolate himself from the day to day. But that lately between them there are "diverting agendas". And we later see that Tony replaces Chris with Bobby. Bobby is becoming more and more trusted and Chris is getting phased out.

That's the real reason Tony killed Chris, because he outlived his usefulness. Not because of no baby seat bullshyt.

Looking at this thread. I have no idea why I rooted for Tony like I did.

But it looked like Tony was genuinely sorry that Bobby got capped when he had that flashback with them on the boat...

 

[profound]

There's a scene somewhere where Tony says, either he about AJ or Jackie Aprille, that he doesn't want him involved in the mob life. Chris then goes "What, and it's ok for me?" or sth like that - Tony then looks dumbfounded and doesn't have a response.

his response was that Chris was suited to the life but not Jackie Jr.

 

[profound]

But it looked like Tony was genuinely sorry that Bobby got capped when he had that flashback with them on the boat...

its funny to see his ''compassion'' or whatever shine thru at those odd times, like after he killed Ralph, at the end of the episode he was washing up in the Bing, and noticed the strippers pic who Ralph killed, that shyt bothered him and he didnt wanna hear/didnt care she was a whore, he looked at the pic cuz she got justice.

 

[Mr. Pink]

Looking at this thread. I have no idea why I rooted for Tony like I did.

But it looked like Tony was genuinely sorry that Bobby got capped when he had that flashback with them on the boat...

Don't get me wrong, I think he genuinely cared about Chris and Bobby on some level. He just cared way more about himself, and was willing to sacrifice both of them.

Look at Chris for example. As someone else said Chris fukked up a lot of times throughout the show. The reason Tony always gave him a pass is not (just)because he loved him. He also loved his cousin Tony B. The reason he always gave him a pass was because there was a benefit to Chris' existence. Tony would make Chris his right hand, give his orders only through him(so he would be immune to wires or rats) and when the shyt hit the fan Chris would take the fall for him. That's why it had to be blood, a relative, so he wouldn't turn on him.
But in S6 as it becomes more and more clear to Tony that Chris is not going along with the program he replaces him with Bobby and ultimately kills him.

 

[re'up]

It's a testament to the great writing and acting from James Gandolfini, because throughout all that, I never stopped cheering for Tony either, through all his bullshyt, much like his own family and friends. Even after he killed Chris, and the his treatment of Hesh, and Vito's kid, I was still right there sympathizing and laughing at his jokes.

 

[up in here]

Looking at this thread. I have no idea why I rooted for Tony like I did.

But it looked like Tony was genuinely sorry that Bobby got capped when he had that flashback with them on the boat...

you was supposed to root for Tony. even though he was a selfish scumbag he still had moments of decency, insecurity and humanity that made him likable. That was the beauty of the Sopranos, they wasn't one dimensional. Tony definitely wasn't perfect but he wasn't pure evil either, he sometimes did things that made you cheer and other time he did things that you wasn't supposed to like.

The thing with Chris is that was one of those times where he was in the wrong, but really he was in the wrong long before he actually killed him, that was just the culmination of their failed relationship, which largely was Tony's fault because he was the one with the power in the relationship. And Tony made all these excuses as to why he did it but the reality is that he failed Chris long before Chris failed him.

 

[Mr. Pink]

I agree that we were supposed to root for Tony. And we were supposed to hate ourselves for loving him. I think that's what David Chase wanted.

One of the episodes that really stayed with me was the one where Melfi was raped. In the final scene where Tony asks her if there's something wrong and she's close to breaking and telling him. Who in the audience wasn't wishing for Melfi to fess up and Tony to rip that guy to shreds? But instead she gives the haunting "no" and the screen goes black. I really think Chase's intention for that scene was for the audience to stop and think for a bit about what exactly they were hoping to happen.

 

[MidniteJay]

So Tony loses in the end doesn't he? Christ didn't work out and Bobby got lit up before he could be Tony's sacrificial lamb.

I don't remember but I think it was implied that Carlo Gervasi was going to turn state evidence against the Soprano regime right?

 

[Shogun]

his response was that Chris was suited to the life but not Jackie Jr.

I believe Chris's exact words were "little lord fukk pants"

 

[profound]

''is that a moniker?''

 

[Absolut]

its not really a spoiler if the shyt is 5 years old, and from an insanely popular program

 

[profound]

I don't remember but I think it was implied that Carlo Gervasi was going to turn state evidence against the Soprano regime right?

yup

 

[Rodgers]

I wish christopher would of put a bullet in tonys fat fukkin head

the show should of ended with christopher being in charge of jersey and being under the control of the ny family

im still not sure i buy Christopha and Lil Carmine making cleaver so explicitly about chris/tony's relationship... chris was a dumb guy, but he had common sense and knew how vindictive Tony was more than anyone... see Pie O My

I rewatched the last season a few weeks ago and besides the slight complaint about the cleaver story the last 9 were fukkin great.. right there with the first 2 seasons and season 5