Did Puka Nacua's record-setting year expose Cooper Kupp as a system receiver?

[JLaw]

Look at Robert Woods' stats, his production on the Rams was basically double what he did on other teams.

McVay scheme is a cheat code for wideouts. He consistently gives them 1 on 1 matchups and lots of space to run over the middle.

 

[YOGEBEAR09]

I dont think they would put up the numbers to validate the opnion of being top 10-15 wrs in systems that werent as wr friendly

I guess top 20-15 is still good

I literally called Kupp a good player right in the OP.

I just don't think he's an OPOY/MVP level player.

Name the wrs that are currently putting up big numbers while not being in a system thats "wr friendly" and not getting a bunch of targets and opportunities to make plays.

And how is Kupp not OPOY level when he put up one of the greatest seasons ever to go along with a SB MVP.

You say any wr can come into the system and be a 1000 yard wr but Sammy Watkins didnt, Allen Robinson didnt, Van Jefferson never did, our 2nd round pick Tutu hasn't.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Watching this, it's wild that this is a Super Bowl MVP highlight reel. All the passes are short, and most of the catches are easy. He made a couple guys miss once (first catch), and otherwise got no YAC all game. This is what a 92-yard receiving performance usually looks like - solid play, but there are numerous WRs who are going to make the same plays.





But these are the kind of plays made by the top DT in the league. Plays that other players at his position wouldn't have made. His 2nd sack of the game saved a touchdown that by itself would have put the Bengals over the top, and his 3rd-down stop + 4th-down virtual sack single-handedly ended the game.

 

[YOGEBEAR09]

The main reason I'm salty is that WRs are so rarely considered for awards, it still seems wild to me that Cooper Kupp of all people is the one to get them.


Only 3 other WRs in NFL history have ever won the OPOY. Calvin Johnson never won an OPOY. Neither did Larry Fitzgerald. Neither did Randy Moss.

Only 7 other WRs had won a Super Bowl MVP, and no one in 50 years had done it with fewer receiving yards than Kupp's 92. There's been over 50 wide receivers who have put up 100+ yards in a Super Bowl and 90% of them didn't win MVP for their efforts, but Kupp gets when he had been damn near forgettable all game (5 catches for 53 yards and an incomplete pass) until the final drive.


Does anyone really believe that Cooper Kupp is better than Tyreek Hill, Stefon Diggs, or Devonte Adams? All three of them were better than Kupp before his big season, and they're still better than Kupp after his big season. But Kupp is the one who gets all the media attention and awards.

You have a problem with Kupp winning OPOY for some weird reason, please show me what player during that season was more deserving of OPOY than Kupp

 

[YOGEBEAR09]

Watching this, it's wild that this is a Super Bowl MVP highlight reel. All the passes are short, and most of the catches are easy. He made a couple guys miss once (first catch), and otherwise got no YAC all game. This is what a 92-yard receiving performance usually looks like - solid play, but there are numerous WRs who are going to make the same plays.





But these are the kind of plays made by the top DT in the league. Plays that other players at his position wouldn't have made. His 2nd sack of the game saved a touchdown that by itself would have put the Bengals over the top, and his 3rd-down stop + 4th-down virtual sack single-handedly ended the game.

Again, you make these arguements cause you have no clue on what youre talking about, click that first video and scroll down a bit to the top comment and it explains why, we had no offense in that game besides Kupp once OBJ went down and he made clutch play after play and ultimately scored the game winnign touchdown. SB MVP could have went to either Donald or him but acting like Kupp did not deserve it as much as Donald is crazy and youre talking to a guy who has AD as his GOAT

 

[FTBS]

McVay was getting his homeys gigs before he won a SB. Goff was considered a bust before he arrived. Stafford never won N E thing post HS, despite having talent and opportunities, before going to LA. Homey saved Baker's career. I have been one his biggest skeptics but McVay got the goods when it comes to offense.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

You say any wr can come into the system and be a 1000 yard wr but Sammy Watkins didnt, Allen Robinson didnt, Van Jefferson never did, our 2nd round pick Tutu hasn't.

I didn't say that, you're confusing me with someone else. Stop spamming the thread with posts if you're not even going to read carefully.

And yes, Cooper Kupp is a better player than Sammy Watkins, Van Jefferson, or a washed Allen Robinson (who was already in decline before he got to the Rams).....but you're also missing the obvious point others have been making. Allen Robinson didn't have a great year in part BECAUSE Stafford spammed passes to Kupp all game and missed potential open throws to Robinson.

 

[YOGEBEAR09]

Guy doesnt pay attention if he believes Kupp gets more media attention than Tyreek, Davonte and Diggs. Tyreek literally had mvp arguements this season and had people arguing that hes scarier than Randy Moss and Davonte was always called the best wr in the league by 90%. Dude is just making up narratives in his head.

 

[YOGEBEAR09]

I didn't say that, you're confusing me with someone else. Stop spamming the thread with posts if you're not even going to read carefully.

And yes, Cooper Kupp is a better player than Sammy Watkins, Van Jefferson, or a washed Allen Robinson (who was already in decline before he got to the Rams).....but you're also missing the obvious point others have been making. Allen Robinson didn't have a great year in part BECAUSE Stafford spammed passes to Kupp all game and missed potential open throws to Robinson.

Dont make threads when you dont know what you're talking about and I wont have to post in them to correct your dumbass points.

 

[djthegreat88]

Stafford makes WR look better than they are. Golladay got paid. Marvin Jones has way better production than his talent would indicate. Stafford not afraid to make any throw. He’ll force you open. Kupp and Puka are great. But their not dynamic like a Jefferson or Lamb who murdered the lions last few weeks

 

[Remote]

I don't think Puka's success this year devalues the success that Kupp has had in the past.

They aren't related.

I think what we saw this year was that Puka has a great ability to find holes in zone defenses and the Rams exploited that extremely well this year. And Kupp being the threat that he is, in some ways opened up things for Puka, and to some degree Demarcus Robinson in the last few weeks of the season.

It's also fair to say that Kupp did not look like his old self this season -- either due to age (he's 30), injury (a hamstring is pretty tough on WRs), or both.

 

[Versa]

It's not really a system, it's just the byproduct of having stafford as your QB. He only sees one guy. It's actually insane that he's had such a long career playing like this. Roethlisberger did it a little but not to this extreme.

Don't get me wrong, you have to be good to do with puka/kupp did with stafford but I can't say in good faith that they'd do this on other teams.

Makes sense. As much as I love Mark Andrews, I feel him getting hurt forced Lamar to develop more confidence in throwing to other people.

 

[klientel]

What really is a system WR? Are you implying Puka couldn’t do this with other teams? Well no shyt, he wouldn’t have this success with Arthur Smith and Ridder. That applies to damn near all WRs. Put CeeDee Lamb on the Patriots and he might not hit 1K yards. Put Garrett Wilson on the Dolphins and he’s probably getting 1700 yards.

I feel like we are just throwing terms around now. WRs still have to be able to run sound routes, have great hands, and make tons of plays to do what Puka did. Can’t diminish that and say it’s just the system or because Stafford targets him. Staff targets him because he trusts him to get open and make plays.

The gap between most of the good WRs isn’t huge. Even Tyreek Hill said system matters for ALL WRs. He said there are about 15 guys or more in the league who could be top 5 if they were put in the right system to utilize them correctly. It’s not a bad thing.

 

[Taco]

Question needs to be centered around Stafford. Did it w/ Megatron then Kupp and now Puka. He’s got the numbers and a Super Bowl. Conversation should really be about him

 

[tremonthustler1]

The main reason I'm salty is that WRs are so rarely considered for awards, it still seems wild to me that Cooper Kupp of all people is the one to get them.


Only 3 other WRs in NFL history have ever won the OPOY. Calvin Johnson never won an OPOY. Neither did Larry Fitzgerald. Neither did Randy Moss.

Only 7 other WRs had won a Super Bowl MVP, and no one in 50 years had done it with fewer receiving yards than Kupp's 92. There's been over 50 wide receivers who have put up 100+ yards in a Super Bowl and 90% of them didn't win MVP for their efforts, but Kupp gets when he had been damn near forgettable all game (5 catches for 53 yards and an incomplete pass) until the final drive.


Does anyone really believe that Cooper Kupp is better than Tyreek Hill, Stefon Diggs, or Devonte Adams? All three of them were better than Kupp before his big season, and they're still better than Kupp after his big season. But Kupp is the one who gets all the media attention and awards.

Kupp >>> Diggs and Adams