Denis Villeneuve 'Arrival'

[TheGodling]

That isn't the whole point, the story line forces a ending to be the "hook" at the end just for the sake of there being a hook. that is poor plotting. Its a narrative leap the story doesn't bother to build and doesn't make sense in terms of what we are presented.

Doesn't matter if she is the only one,

Spoiler

the point is that mentally understanding a language does not do what the movie proposes, the magic of a language or method of communication doesn't pull one outside of temporal space or elevate one to being a god. unbeholden to the rules of reality, above time, or allowing one to experience time as one who is outside of it while still being a finite being in a fixed space.

How would you know though?

Spoiler

We have never encountered a language so complex that it would require our very perception of time to change in order to understand it. Again, the whole idea is that this language is far ahead of anything humanity can fathom at the moment. The movie even explicitly states that the sounds the aliens make do not comply with their written language, which further emphasizes that the language is a beast of its own and cannot be looked at within the rules that apply to any "earth" language.

Also, the idea behind this isn't really that far off from saying that meditation can unlock and open hidden parts of your mind. Learning the alien language is almost presented as a puzzle that opens up your mind with every step you make in learning to understand it.

What the language does to the lead is the dues ex machina, its what makes the whole movie. Its pretty huge leap.
You liked the hook fine, but I thought it was poor and only existed to justify the twist.
You literally have to stop thinking to think the twist is clever, IMHO.

No, a Deus Ex Machina literally appears out of nowhere and is introduced to resolve the plot in a convenient way. The resolution here follows naturally from what the movie establishes early on and further builds on in the plot. It's a thread that runs through the entire movie, whether you accept the "logic" behind it or not.

 

[gluvnast]

What the language does to the lead is the dues ex machina, its what makes the whole movie. Its pretty huge leap.
You liked the hook fine, but I thought it was poor and only existed to justify the twist.
You literally have to stop thinking to think the twist is clever, IMHO.

This maybe because you do not understand the concept of the power OF LANGUAGE... not only the power of language, but of WORDS in general. Everything we do is based on communication... everything we achieve, even in science is based on how it is communicated. And in the main character's case, Ian said himself...she approaches it as a mathematician. So what she was able to do was a scientific discovery.... simple and plain.

 

[David_TheMan]

How would you know though?

Spoiler

We have never encountered a language so complex that it would require our very perception of time to change in order to understand it. Again, the whole idea is that this language is far ahead of anything humanity can fathom at the moment. The movie even explicitly states that the sounds the aliens make do not comply with their written language, which further emphasizes that the language is a beast of its own and cannot be looked at within the rules that apply to any "earth" language.

Also, the idea behind this isn't really that far off from saying that meditation can unlock and open hidden parts of your mind. Learning the alien language is almost presented as a puzzle that opens up your mind with every step you make in learning to understand it.

No, a Deus Ex Machina literally appears out of nowhere and is introduced to resolve the plot in a convenient way. The resolution here follows naturally from what the movie establishes early on and further builds on in the plot. It's a thread that runs through the entire movie, whether you accept the "logic" behind it or not.

How would i know?
Easy language is simply a form of communication, the ability to transmit verbalize or signal transfer on ideas from one enitty to another. Nothing involved in learning a language (mastering sounds and/or symbols) leads to anything that this movie tries to claim.

Like i said before if they built up more of the power of this language or maybe that it was more than a language I would say okay, but to claim that in simply learning their language that suddenly what happened happened is so out of the blue that it only exists for the narrative twist of the story and I can't let that slide.

The effect of the language is literally a deus ex machima to setup the twist of the movie.
The language's power is not setup at all and arguably makes no sense whatsover that it does what it does, except for the purpose of the story to have you experience the twist

 

[David_TheMan]

This maybe because you do not understand the concept of the power OF LANGUAGE... not only the power of language, but of WORDS in general. Everything we do is based on communication... everything we achieve, even in science is based on how it is communicated. And in the main character's case, Ian said himself...she approaches it as a mathematician. So what she was able to do was a scientific discovery.... simple and plain.

There is no power of language, language is just a tool of communication. Ideas are powerful, but the transmission of those ideas are just a means to an end.
That you are now trying to act like the concept of language is deep, kills me, because it really isn't.
Learning a new language isn't a scientific discovery and it doesn't do what the movie is tries to sell you on, and if the point was their language is special, they should have done more to show that what they were doing wasn't teaching her a new language but making her a higher level being outright, because that is hte only way the conclusion can even make sense, that she

Spoiler

was no longer a human but a god or a new being uncontained by time, which would make her supernatural

 

[gluvnast]

How would i know?
Easy language is simply a form of communication, the ability to transmit verbalize or signal transfer on ideas from one enitty to another. Nothing involved in learning a language (mastering sounds and/or symbols) leads to anything that this movie tries to claim.

Like i said before if they built up more of the power of this language or maybe that it was more than a language I would say okay, but to claim that in simply learning their language that suddenly what happened happened is so out of the blue that it only exists for the narrative twist of the story and I can't let that slide.

The effect of the language is literally a deus ex machima to setup the twist of the movie.
The language's power is not setup at all and arguably makes no sense whatsover that it does what it does, except for the purpose of the story to have you experience the twist

People just a CENTURY AGO cannot imagine how we are able to communicate TODAY...... everything wireless, the distance we can communicate... and how we're able to reach someone on the other side of the planet within seconds and get a response within seconds....

Imagine the communicate EVOLVING 3000 years from now... which this film basically implies... it's not just able to break past the distance, but through dimensions and time itself. You can communicate things from the past to people in the future and vice versa.

 

[gluvnast]

@David_TheMan, just say the movie went over your head... if you cannot even understand the power language and communication has then this film is basically one you will not understand.

 

[David_TheMan]

People just a CENTURY AGO cannot imagine how we are able to communicate TODAY...... everything wireless, the distance we can communicate... and how we're able to reach someone on the other side of the planet within seconds and get a response within seconds....

Imagine the communicate EVOLVING 3000 years from now... which this film basically implies... it's not just able to break past the distance, but through dimensions and time itself. You can communicate things from the past to people in the future and vice versa.

Wireless technology isn't a change in communication, its a change in medium of communication and there is a difference in those two things.
this film isn't talking about an evolution in communication, its talking about a

Spoiler

evolution in the very nature of what it is to be a human and experience time outside the realm of the present that we and every animal alive or ever in existance has been limited to. A creature that can experience life and time simultaneously isn't a human, but a superhuman or a god, those are the only beings on this plane of existance that could not be confined by time,

Language does not do that.

The same ideas that we talk about today were discussed centuries and millenia ago, in old english, latin, old greek, egyptian, ancient chinese, summarian, and etc.

 

[gluvnast]

I encourage you to read this.... HOPEFULLY you get what this film is about.

The Power of Language - Multilingualism - Goethe-Institut 

 

[David_TheMan]

@David_TheMan, just say the movie went over your head... if you cannot even understand the power language and communication has then this film is basically one you will not understand.

The movie didn't go over my head, it wasn't dealing with high level themes at all. There is literally nothing complex about what it presented, it just had a very interesting but superficial/hollow narrative trick.

 

[gluvnast]

Wireless technology isn't a change in communication, its a change in medium of communication and there is a difference in those two things.
this film isn't talking about an evolution in communication, its talking about a

Spoiler

evolution in the very nature of what it is to be a human and experience time outside the realm of the present that we and every animal alive or ever in existance has been limited to. A creature that can experience life and time simultaneously isn't a human, but a superhuman or a god, those are the only beings on this plane of existance that could not be confined by time,

Language does not do that.

The same ideas that we talk about today were discussed centuries and millenia ago, in old english, latin, old greek, egyptian, ancient chinese, summarian, and etc.

You completely misinterpret.... there was nothing in the film that suggest anything of deity or even any theologian philosophy. Just a scientific analysis....

 

[David_TheMan]

I encourage you to read this.... HOPEFULLY you get what this film is about.

The Power of Language - Multilingualism - Goethe-Institut

I read half of it and realized it has nothing to do with what you are actually trying to argue or what this movie presented and so I stopped

 

[David_TheMan]

You completely misinterpret.... there was nothing in the film that suggest anything of deity or even any theologian philosophy. Just a scientific analysis....

I didn't misrepresent anything, you simply read through too quickly or you are showing a lack of reading comprehension.
As for the scientific analysis, my point is that what this movie portrays in language is beyond the realm of science and actually in the realm of the supernatural and mystic.

 

[TheGodling]

Wireless technology isn't a change in communication, its a change in medium of communication and there is a difference in those two things.
this film isn't talking about an evolution in communication, its talking about a

Spoiler

evolution in the very nature of what it is to be a human and experience time outside the realm of the present that we and every animal alive or ever in existance has been limited to. A creature that can experience life and time simultaneously isn't a human, but a superhuman or a god, those are the only beings on this plane of existance that could not be confined by time,

Language does not do that.

The same ideas that we talk about today were discussed centuries and millenia ago, in old english, latin, old greek, egyptian, ancient chinese, summarian, and etc.

All of them earth languages. Meanwhile:

Spoiler

the language in the movie is an alien language given to us by interdimensional aliens who exist/can see 3000 years into the future as well as achieve intergalactic space travel and numerous other feats that humanity isn't capable of at this time either.

 

[gluvnast]

I didn't misrepresent anything, you simply read through too quickly or you are showing a lack of reading comprehension.
As for the scientific analysis, my point is that what this movie portrays in language is beyond the realm of science and actually in the realm of the supernatural and mystic.

Having someone awaken their "3rd eye" does not make them superhuman or a god. They even said it specifically that how they communicate is on another level to that we typically communicate. You HAVE to evolve to that way of thinking to even understand their language in the context. And she was able to....

 

[Silver Surfer]

You literally have to stop thinking to think the twist is clever, IMHO.

Exactly....