Democratic Party Rebuild

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

fukk you
fukk the UK Supreme Court
fukk the UK prime minister
fukk JK Rowling

 

[Outlaw]

I was showing you the fault in your logical argument by applying your same formulation to a different example. It's not changing the root topic, it's one of the most common pedagogical techniques.


You're confused. Racism and transphobia are two forms of bigotry. Just because they're not exactly the same doesn't mean they're completely different, just like racism and sexism aren't exactly the same. It depends on the context you're arguing within. And there are many examples of racism being deployed through elective contexts, such as denial of naming rights, religion, hairstyles, language, etc. Racism isn't as simple as you make it out to be, there is a constellation of factors and contexts through which it can manifest.

A transgender person being able to match their government ID with their gender identity is not an example of them becoming transgender, any more than people referring to you as a female would mean you're becoming a woman. Transgenderism is just when your self-perceived gender identity doesn't match the gender you were assigned at birth. Sex-reassignment surgery and changing government documentation is just about having bodily and social alignment and acceptance of your innate identity. Just because a black person is passing or has vitiligo doesn't mean they're no longer black. And if the next time you renew your license at the DMV and they put an F next to your Sex it doesn't mean you're a woman until you rectify that mistake, even with the discomfort you'd feel with having that be your state-determined gender designation.


Depends on what arena you're talking about when you reference an unfair advantage, but this is not the bullying that TNC is talking about. If the extent of anti-Trans activism was doing academic studies on the differences between Trans women and Cis women, we would not be in the place we are right now.


There is no definitive opinion held by cis women on this issue, so you're going to have to form your own opinion on this.

And not being sexually interested in trans women is completely irrelevant to this topic. I don't want to date a woman taller that 6'4" but that doesn't mean I think tall women deserve less rights, opportunities or humanity that shorter women. No one is claiming there is no material difference between trans women and cis women, they're saying trans women belong as a subcategory of woman.


I don't know what oppression of CIS women you're talking about but the bullying TNC is mentioning is the passing of laws specifically targeting trans people for discrimination.

I don’t necessarily disagree in your general defense of trans rights because I feel that they deserve full rights and should be able to identify as the gender of their choosing as long as they don’t encroach on the rights of cis women. I would feel dirty if I played devils advocate just to debate.

However what I am against is puritan politics and the exclusion of people who disagree with you on a grey issue.

I think there’s some inconsistencies with your logic though

1)if you analogize trans rights with racial rights do you think someone could be trans racial? If you do would someone be a bigot for discriminating against a white male who identifies as black but you call them a white male regardless of their identity?

2) the height preference is a flimsy analogy. If you met a woman that was 6’5 and she had all the attributes of your perfect woman, and had a billion dollars, you would consider dating her. Would you say the same about a trans woman?

If a trans woman had all the attributes of your dream woman but being trans is a deal breaker, it would make you a bigot since you would be unwilling to make any type of exceptions as you would for a 6’5 woman.

What is it about being trans that’s such deal breaker that you wouldn’t be willing to make an exception for one to date? I mean in you’re words they’re just a subcategory of women right?

There’s an inconsistency to the logic and you allow selective bigotry as long as it affects you personally. That type of hypocrisy is what turns a lot of normies away from left wing ideology. Being pure to the orthodoxy matters more than logic and reason

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

fukk you
fukk the UK Supreme Court
fukk the UK prime minister
fukk JK Rowling

 

[Loose]

Nap needs to be banned until 2028

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Nap needs to be banned until 2028

Why are you struggling to defend what Coates said?

 

[King Kreole]

Transitive properties don’t work in arguments if the underlying premises aren’t analogous.

Correct, which is why it works in this instance because two forms of bigotry are analogous.

What’s transphobic here? Should “trans women” compete against biological women in competitive sports?

The GOP bills targeting the transgender community and the Democrats flirting with acquiescing are engaging in transphobia.

Well thats kinda the problem with your analogy

No.

Is the UK Supreme Court transphobic?

Most likely.

Its identity fraud

SEX should be the marker, not “gender” or whatever that means. These are official documents that represent reality.

Disagree and you're missing the point.

So-they-say. It doesn’t mean such a thing is actually happening any more than believing prayer workers because a lot of people say so. It’s a religious endeavor.

Self-identification is the basis for most social identification categories, including race. You of all people should know this, Mr. I'm-Not-Indian.

Without modern medicine can you “be trans?”

Yes.

You just conflated sex and gender.

Your license doesn’t say “gender” it says “sex"

Missing the point.

The difference is that “trans women” are biological males.

Living every day as halloween doesn’t incur special rights nor demand research initiatives.

Trans women are women who were born with male biological anatomy and assigned male gender at birth. They're not asking for special rights or demanding research initiatives, just asking for the same grace, dignity and rights as everyone else.

Why is so hard for you to listen to actual women?

The UK case was brought on by…lesbians

There is no universal opinion on this issue by cis women. JK Rowlings is not the Pope of women and a handful of Scottish lesbians are not the College of Cardinals.

Are trans-women the same as biological women?

Assuming by biological women you mean women with female biological anatomy, no.

Trans people aren’t being discriminated against if they’re being held to the same standard “cis-gendered” people are.

Right. But they aren't being held to that same standard. Hence, they're being discriminated against.

 

[King Kreole]

@King Kreole @Loose @AquaCityBoy

You all sound as insane at this bat-shyt crazy trans activist

The UK’s Anti-Trans Ruling Is a Defeat for All Women

Even the self-described feminists celebrating the Supreme Court’s attempt to banish trans people from womanhood will pay a heavy price.

www.thenation.com

The author of this article is a cis woman, who is it so hard for you to listen to actual women?

 

[King Kreole]

1)if you analogize trans rights with racial rights do you think someone could be trans racial? If you do would someone be a bigot for discriminating against a white male who identifies as black but you call them a white male regardless of their identity?

This doesn't follow. The operative term in the analogy I made between trans right and racial rights is rights. So whether trans racial is a legitimate identity/phenomenon is a separate question that doesn't have a bearing on this discussion. Just as making an analogy between animal rights and women's rights doesn't mean there must be a dog-woman.

2) the height preference is a flimsy analogy. If you met a woman that was 6’5 and she had all the attributes of your perfect woman, and had a billion dollars, you would consider dating her. Would you say the same about a trans woman?

If a trans woman had all the attributes of your dream woman but being trans is a deal breaker, it would make you a bigot since you would be unwilling to make any type of exceptions as you would for a 6’5 woman.

What is it about being trans that’s such deal breaker that you wouldn’t be willing to make an exception for one to date? I mean in you’re words they’re just a subcategory of women right?

If I had a very strong sexual/attraction aversion to tall women, then that 6'5" woman would definitionally not have all the attributes of my perfect woman, regardless of her bank account. I would say the same thing about a trans woman. I would date them with the same caveats as all the other women with attributes I'm not personally attracted to. If a woman is a little person or has muscular dystrophy or is morbidly obese but has all the other attributes of my dream woman, those are still as much dealbreakers as being transgender would be to me. And they're all still subcategories of women. The broader point here is that you're confusing personal sexual preference for belief in rights and dignity and equality. Just because I'm not sexually attracted to obese women doesn't mean I think they should be targeted by the state for discrimination and harassment, or that they no longer qualify as women. A woman isn't determined by my personal level of attraction to them.

There’s an inconsistency to the logic and you allow selective bigotry as long as it affects you personally. That type of hypocrisy is what turns a lot of normies away from left wing ideology. Being pure to the orthodoxy matters more than logic and reason

No one is demanding everyone has to find transgender people attractive. You are allowed your personal sexual preferences. It's not hypocritical or "selectively bigoted" to be staunchly in support of the rights of disabled people without finding them sexually attractive. The problem is not allowing them to live their own lives with the same freedoms and dignity afforded to the rest of us.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Correct, which is why it works in this instance because two forms of bigotry are analogous.

Where is the bigotry against trans people?

The GOP bills targeting the transgender community and the Democrats flirting with acquiescing are engaging in transphobia.

How are they being targeted?

The GOP has not banned trans people or limited their rights.

A trans woman is not a woman. A Trans man is not a man.

No.

Most likely.

how is the UK transphobic?

Do you support this?

https://twitter.com/search?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fathletics%2F2025%2F04%2F23%2Ftransgender-london-marathon-runners-can-compete-as-women-de%2F&src=typed_query

Disagree and you're missing the point.

What point is being missed?

Sex and gender are different and gender isn’t on official documents.

Self-identification is the basis for most social identification categories, including race. You of all people should know this, Mr. I'm-Not-Indian.

Identification has to represent reality. Imagine emergency situations.

Yes.

If you can be trans without modern medicine then why transition?

Missing the point.

You haven’t made your point.

Trans women are women who were born with male biological anatomy and assigned male gender at birth. They're not asking for special rights or demanding research initiatives, just asking for the same grace, dignity and rights as everyone else.

Why do trans women deserve the right to who women spaces and participate in womens’ sports?

There is no universal opinion on this issue by cis women. JK Rowlings is not the Pope of women and a handful of Scottish lesbians are not the College of Cardinals.

Theres no universal opinion on everything.

Except you’ve lost this debate

Assuming by biological women you mean women with female biological anatomy, no.

So if they’re not women why should they be entitled to the privileges and privacy afford to women?

Right. But they aren't being held to that same standard. Hence, they're being discriminated against.

Trans people aren’t being discriminated against by being asked to participate in spaces and events with the members of their biological sex.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

The author of this article is a cis woman, who is it so hard for you to listen to actual women?

The majority of women don’t support trans issues.

 

[Outlaw]

This doesn't follow. The operative term in the analogy I made between trans right and racial rights is rights. So whether trans racial is a legitimate identity/phenomenon is a separate question that doesn't have a bearing on this discussion. Just as making an analogy between animal rights and women's rights doesn't mean there must be a dog-woman.

The phenomenon does exist, we don’t need to go into the realm of crazy hypotheticals to downplay the analogy. Some people identify as trans-racial.

https://www.cnn.com/2015/06/16/us/washington-rachel-dolezal-naacp/index.html

Should women like her be able to change her identifiers on government documents based solely on what she identifies as?

Again I’m not trying to delegitimize trans people they should have the freedom to identify as whatever like but the issue is more philosophical than black and white.

Questioning if a trans woman should be able to identify as a woman and if a black male should be able to identify as a white male is more analogous than if a black male should be able to drink out of the same water fountain as a white man due to race.

The first two are selective identifiers

If I had a very strong sexual/attraction aversion to tall women, then that 6'5" woman would definitionally not have all the attributes of my perfect woman, regardless of her bank account. I would say the same thing about a trans woman. I would date them with the same caveats as all the other women with attributes I'm not personally attracted to. If a woman is a little person or has muscular dystrophy or is morbidly obese but has all the other attributes of my dream woman, those are still as much dealbreakers as being transgender would be to me. And they're all still subcategories of women. The broader point here is that you're confusing personal sexual preference for belief in rights and dignity and equality. Just because I'm not sexually attracted to obese women doesn't mean I think they should be targeted by the state for discrimination and harassment, or that they no longer qualify as women. A woman isn't determined by my personal level of attraction to them.

I was more so referring to the woman’s personality, if she had every personality trait you found attractive, had the type of face and body you found attractive and had a billion in the bank account ready to spend it on you, you wouldn’t let an inch of height stop you. Stop the cap.

No one is demanding everyone has to find transgender people attractive. You are allowed your personal sexual preferences. It's not hypocritical or "selectively bigoted" to be staunchly in support of the rights of disabled people without finding them sexually attractive. The problem is not allowing them to live their own lives with the same freedoms and dignity afforded to the rest of us.

all I’m saying there should be consistency, on one end you can’t say trans women should be treated exactly like cis women when you personally don’t treat them the same.

 

[ADevilYouKhow]

Bernie text me for $27 : (

 

[Rice N Beans]

Bernie text me for $27 : (

He's probably trying to buy eggs.

 

[wire28]

 

[Loose]

Almost like people don't like weak leaders they won't fight for them

Im sure James carville somewhere talking with garbage in his mouth on how voters don't understand doing nothing and playing dead is a good thing