DeMarcus Cousins feels he was the first Nikola Jokic in the NBA: "They won't give me the credit"

[The War Report]

Talent and skill was never a problem with Cousins. It's his mindset that was his biggest flaw.

 

[AlbertPullhoez]

His career ends up so much different if he doesn't tear his Achilles in 2018. He was averaging 25 and 12 when got hurt

Pelicans were a legit title threat that year that got ended and his career was basically a wrap

He's on a possible HOF trajectory if not for that injury

 

[Yagirlcheatinonus]

Just checked the stats, he had 9 triple doubles in 12 seasons, almost one per season.

For reference, some random tall guys both from his era, after and before:

Jokic 159
Larry Bird 59
Kevin Garnett 16
Giannis 50
Kareem 21
Pau Gasol 10
Wilt 78
Draymond 32
C-webb 21

The game easier put him in the 90s 2000s Jokic don’t have as many triple doubles

 

[Harry B]

The game easier put him in the 90s 2000s Jokic don’t have as many triple doubles

If there was a big man who could shoot like him in the 90s and use his big ass body without getting fouled he might've put up wilder numbers for all I know.

With slower guys and weaker shooting he might've not been as exposed in defense either.


We can have these worthless hypothetical discussions forever, and I can take both sides just for the fukk of it but what do we really achieve

 

[OnlyOneBoss]

He's 100% right

Folks forget but back in the day, when you made a big on 2k Boogie was the prototype we tried to build

 

[DraymondT]

Cool, he better than them.

The defensive strength Hakeem has over doesn't mask how much better Jokic is than Hakeem on the offensive end. (Jokic is also averaging 2 steals a game this season and averages over a steal a game, btw)

Jokic is a better rebounder than Hakeem too, and this with more bodies in the paint today than back then.

I think people don't want to admit this because he white and because its the present, but Jokic is moving up them lists.

Did ya just say there more bodies in the paint today than there was in Hakeem time? WTF kinda dumbass statement ya tryna make wit that bs

Players barely shot 3s most Hakeem career. Paint was always packed wit 5, 6, 7 nikkas almost every possession and defensive 3 second rule was put in 01. Hakeem was actually guardin perimeter even back then and comin out Jokac stay his ass in the paint they whole defense centered on protectin his WOAT defense yet still give up one of league high at rim% wit his WOAT rim pro.

 

[SunZoo]

He was not a creator and faciitator like Jokic is.

Thats pretty much the end of this convo. We’ve never seen a center like Jokic. There have been a lot of great passing big men, but none who were the team’s primary facilitator and playmaker.

And Cousins was not the first passing big man. Just a delusional statement.

*Allowed to be

Put Webber or Vlade Dodi in the league now and they'd probably be emulating what is seen in Denver wherever they ended up playing.

If you watch Sabonis you can clearly see in his prime he was a taller, faster more atheletic Jokic and if anybody thought to let him get 100 touches a night he would have been putting up insane stats.

 

[Yagirlcheatinonus]

If there was a big man who could shoot like him in the 90s and use his big ass body without getting fouled he might've put up wilder numbers for all I know.

With slower guys and weaker shooting he might've not been as exposed in defense either.


We can have these worthless hypothetical discussions forever, and I can take both sides just for the fukk of it but what do we really achieve

A lot of those bigs were way quicker. Dude would’ve been Greg Ostertag with a jump shot.

 

[Everythingg]

What if I told you that career wise, he is a plus defender?

We have never seen a point center until Jokic.


On the average, Jokic faces better big men than Hakeem and Shaq did.

He also sees better defensive schemes.

You could always check the two seasons Wilt played "point center" then come back and post who you think had better stats. My point was that Jokic isn't the first big that could facilitate.


It also doesn't matter if Jokic is a plus defender or not when the gap between his defense and Hakeems is bigger than the gap between their assists. Which hurts your argument because assists/triple doubles are the reason you think he's better.. But even ignoring that disagreement, what really shows you don't know what you're talking about is when you try to make an argument that the competition at center today is better than the era that is considered best when it comes to centers. Don't try to make that argument then turn around and pretend like you know about different defensive schemes

 

[mastermind]

Did ya just say there more bodies in the paint today than there was in Hakeem time? WTF kinda dumbass statement ya tryna make wit that bs

Players barely shot 3s most Hakeem career. Paint was always packed wit 5, 6, 7 nikkas almost every possession and defensive 3 second rule was put in 01. Hakeem was actually guardin perimeter even back then and comin out Jokac stay his ass in the paint they whole defense centered on protectin his WOAT defense yet still give up one of league high at rim% wit his WOAT rim pro.

You all don’t watch the NBA

Watch when Jokic gets the ball in the post, look at how many bodies are between him and the rim:


The zone defense rules means more bodies down below versus the old days.

compare it to Shaq who you aren’t allowed to double until he gets the ball. Help defenders start crashing from above the free throw line:

 

[mastermind]

*Allowed to be

Put Webber or Vlade Dodi in the league now and they'd probably be emulating what is seen in Denver wherever they ended up playing.

If you watch Sabonis you can clearly see in his prime he was a taller, faster more atheletic Jokic and if anybody thought to let him get 100 touches a night he would have been putting up insane stats.

Ain’t no allowed to be.

Webber and Divac were 4 assists and 3 turnovers players. You can’t trust players like that to run your offense. Being a great passer isn’t the same as being your offense decision maker.

The only player that could have done it was a guy who did do it in Kevin Garnett. But KG wasn’t the scorer that Jokic is.

 

[mastermind]

You could always check the two seasons Wilt played "point center" then come back and post who you think had better stats

In the Wilt Chamberlain doc, that season was criticized because he was overpassing and it wasn’t in the offensive flow.

being s great passer or high assist player isn’t the same as being the team’s offensive decision maker like a Jokic, Bron, Harden, SGA, etc are.

It also doesn't matter if Jokic is a plus defender or not when the gap between his defense and Hakeems is bigger than the gap between their assists

It’s not because points win games.

Jokic is better and you will have to be mad about it

 

[SunZoo]

Ain’t no allowed to be.

Webber and Divac were 4 assists and 3 turnovers players. You can’t trust players like that to run your offense. Being a great passer isn’t the same as being your offense decision maker.

The only player that could have done it was a guy who did do it in Kevin Garnett. But KG wasn’t the scorer that Jokic is.

Yes there is.

Bigs were not *allowed to shoot the volume of 3's they are now, yes?

In an era where it's not such a novel idea, those two guys who are great passers and decent shooters at a baseline, could be facilitators and stretch the floor given the oportunity. Not saying they'd be *better* but it wouldn't be such a rare thing.

 

[mastermind]

Bigs were not *allowed to shoot the volume of 3's they are now, yes?

Which bigs could shoot at that level? Think carefully about that question when you consider damn near all starting centers now can shoot 33-37 percent from three, and can do it off the dribble or catch and shoot. You can say they weren’t allowed, but a lot of bigs from the old days could not put the ball on the court. They couldn’t shoot free to rows at a high clip.

Magic was a power forward playing point guard because he was that phenomenal of a players. Michael Jordan would have been a small forward if we put him in conventional wisdoms.

Bigs are entering the league way more skilled and more fluid athletes now than ever before.

In an era where it's not such a novel idea, those two guys who are great passers and decent shooters at a baseline, could be facilitators and stretch the floor given the oportunity.

You keep saying this yet only Jokic is doing it now. He has no peer.

 

[Monsanto]

He's definitely not wrong. People weren't watching him play in his prime either but they're gonna come in here acting like experts.

No one knows what he or us (Kings fans) were dealing with in that era