Defining the "African-American"

[JahFocus CS]

Yeah I think we need to define ourselves as an ethnicity more than ever.

Recently one of my friends who is Haitian-American said, "I never knew you were part Haitian?"

Me: "Yeah..."

Him: "I thought you were just black? "

Me: "What do you mean black?"

Him: "You know black, 'black'."

Me:" You mean African-American?"

Him: "I think so."

I had to elaborate to him that my family on my mothers side comes from the south, he knows that Haitians don't normally live in the south compared to here in the Northeast. That was the only way he understood what being African-American was.

"Me no noir père"

 

[Bawon Samedi]

bump.

 

[Samson]

I'm Haitian; so I am not sure my opinion is even wanted on this issue. But, I am bored and did not go to church today.

AA's suffer from the lack of ethnic identity because of the concept of a melting pot. White Americans do not really have an outright ethnic identity either, they have this grand melting pot of whiteness. While there are some that differentiate between Irish, Italian, English, Russian, and other white ethnicities, the end collective consciousness is whiteness. They even make laws and Supreme Court rulings of what can be considered whiteness. With AA's they are almost always washed away (ethnical speaking) and just under the mantle of blackness.

I can understand how that's frustrating. Another thing is how to differentiate yourselves as AA's? I just assumed if you can trace your ancestral history to pre-reconstruction America you were AA, but that's me as an outsider looking in, not my place to even speculate just sharing an assumption. But, most immigrants (after a generation) kind of blend into black American. Black American =/= African American. Black American includes AAs, West Indian Americans, new arrivals from Africa, and other black ethnicities. But, if you are black in America you are under the umbrella of blackness. That blackness is mainly under the banner of African American culture because black people who immigrate here have to assimilate in for the most part.

So, I see the problem but not sure I can fully understand it/feel it. If that makes sense?

Going back to the original premise of this thread. Do any AA posters feel that other blacks(African, Caribbean) feel like your being divisive when you separate AA culture and achievements. At least I get that feeling from a few posters on the coli.

What do you mean by this exactly?

I am Haitian, proud of my culture and it's significance to Black culture as a whole. So, another ethnic group trying to lay claim to it would be . But, when other black ethnic groups use it as a source of pride for black culture, it has a unifying effect

You have to be very specific here with what you mean by culture and achievement. AA achievements are AA achievements. You cannot separate them from what they achieved. In fact, that would be a massive insult. Every time I go to an African American museum, read up on MLK and X, Huey P. Newton's Black Panthers, and other inspiring AAs, I am filled with awe, respect, admiration, and pride. The awe, respect, and admiration is for African American people, their perseverance, and power they have. Pride is the overarching consciousness of blackness. Us, as black people around the world, overcoming all kinds of shyt.

AA culture is a lot more difficult because much of black culture in America is AA culture. I think what you mean is other black ethnic groups come to America and help contribute to black culture. Even then it is hard to separate because of the melting pot effect. Assimilation is strong. Blackness.

For example with hip-hop. With your detractors on here and on the internet there's always these hip-hop isn't AA it's black music comments. I don't have a problem when people say this, but It's commonly used sometimes to not give credit.

Hip-Hop is AA, it is one of the many things AAs have contributed to the overall global black consciousness.
However, one thing that black people (AAs, West Indies, Africans, and other black ethnicities) believe at times is that things develop in a vacuum. Whether it is art, music, black thought, etc, there's a lot of back and forth there.
I read a book on Black music and it was very detailed, demonstrated since slavery the development of black culture has always been intertwined between the Caribean, black Americans, and Africa.
A lot of AA leaders developed their thought process by reading African scholars and Marcus Garvey. African leaders look to MLK and X when developing their thought process, among other AAs. I am using basic examples but there are cool books out there.


I've been on this forum to realize y'all don't like immigrant's providing opinions on AA issues, calm down
I do not want any problems, just here for the laughs and the black women appreciation threads

 

[Bawon Samedi]

@Samson Johnson everyone's take in this thread is WELCOMED as long as they are civil and not trolling.

 

[Secure Da Bag]

So if an African came to New York in 1809 and his family has been in this country ever since, then he is not AA? If not, then what is he?

 

[Bawon Samedi]

So if an African came to New York in 1809 and his family has been in this country ever since, then he is not AA? If not, then what is he?

The AA identity did not even form at that time. The majority of Blacks were still enslaved at that time.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

I'm Haitian; so I am not sure my opinion is even wanted on this issue. But, I am bored and did not go to church today.

AA's suffer from the lack of ethnic identity because of the concept of a melting pot.

aframs have a clear and distinct identity tho

Origins of African-American Ethnicity or African-American Ethnic Traits


The newly formed Black Yankee ethnicity of the early 1800s differed from today’s African-American ethnicity. Modern African-American ethnic traits come from a post-bellum blending of three cultural streams: the Black Yankee ethnicity of 1830, the slave traditions of the antebellum South, and the free Creole or Mulatto elite traditions of the lower South. Each of the three sources provided elements of the religious, linguistic, and folkloric traditions found in today’s African-American ethnicity.30


Essays on the U.S. Color Line » Blog Archive » The Color Line Created African-American Ethnicity in the North

If you don't fit that criteria, you aren't an ethnic AfroAmerican.

White Americans do not really have an outright ethnic identity either, they have this grand melting pot of whiteness. While there are some that differentiate between Irish, Italian, English, Russian, and other white ethnicities, the end collective consciousness is whiteness. They even make laws and Supreme Court rulings of what can be considered whiteness. With AA's they are almost always washed away (ethnical speaking) and just under the mantle of blackness.

whites definitely have clear and distinct identities or else you wouldn't be able to identify ethnic enclaves, foods, musics etc.... Alot of outsiders might see Aframs under a generic term as "black" because they actually aren't fully aware of what Afram culture is on it's full scale outside of mainstream stuff.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

So if an African came to New York in 1809 and his family has been in this country ever since, then he is not AA? If not, then what is he?

unless he somehow stayed isolated, he would have eventually got absorbed and became afram

 

[xoxodede]

So if an African came to New York in 1809 and his family has been in this country ever since, then he is not AA? If not, then what is he?

African-American was initially for Black Americans who ancestors were enslaved in America. Now, it's for everybody - so that is why the term needs to go away.

I think going forward -- we should be differentiated by if your ancestors were enslaved here in America and those who weren't.

Black American Culture has it's roots and beginnings in our ancestors who were enslaved. It was created by them and their descendants. That's how I look at it.

 

[Secure Da Bag]

I think going forward -- we should be differentiated by if your ancestors were enslaved here in America and those who weren't.

That's fair. I believe that distinction needs to be made. In my example, whether it's 1809 or 1909, the question doesn't really change. Since neither are the descendants of slaves, then both would be considered Black American as opposed to African-Americans (DoS).

Would Ancestral-Americans be a better name?

 

[Supper]

Old post on the case for African-American over Black-American.

Because "black" has and still serves as a marker for categorization in the skin color based "race" system. And as we know(hopefully) "race" is not an reliably observable phenomenon based in any science, whether in the study of culture or genetics. Thus this "color"(or lack there of) not a sufficient title for any ethnic group of people as it does not represent our heritage, ancestry, or history. I primarily use African-American, but would also be okay with "Afro-American", or the portmanteau "Afr'am" which might actually be the best option because it doesn't give the impression that our title is just two words of continents put together, but ONE word which has it's linguistic root words in two continents that denote our ancestral continent and the continent of our ethnogenesis.

 

[Secure Da Bag]

The idea that black people call each other "black people" is a bit disturbing (to me). Yes, there are some of us who are dark-skin. But even among them, I have not seen any skin color be the same color as their hair (which is actually the color black). Just an inaccurate description of ancient white people who weren't very color sophisticated. If I'm gonna call refer to myself using "ancient" terminology then Nubian, Aethiopian, or African would be far better choices than "black". Nubian being the top choice being that, IIRC, Aethiopian is a Greek word for the continent and African is just based on some random Roman who showed up on the coast and "claimed" it.

But I digress. Sorry for going offtopic.

 

[Supper]

And as for a solid definition for what an African-American truly is, I propose:

"A person who is the descent of African slaves brought to what is today the contiguous US via the Transatlantic Slave Trade."
Contiguous United States - Wikipedia


Short and precise.

 

[Samson]

aframs have a clear and distinct identity tho

The three cultural streams that makeup AA identity are things I have little to no knowledge of. Recommend a book or documentary, I would love to read up on them, the link you provided doesn't work for me.
I can only give you my perception as an outsider looking in. Growing up, I cannot tell you how many times I've heard my AA brethrens say that they don't have an identity. Whether as a kid, as an adult, IRL or in the media or AA art/literature, the recurring theme has been because of slavery AAs lost their African identity and lack a unifying cultural ethnic identity.

whites definitely have clear and distinct identities or else you wouldn't be able to identify ethnic enclaves, foods, musics etc....

I said, White Americans do not really have an outright ethnic identity. There are some ethnic enclaves among whites, but those are mainly newcomers, by the 3rd generation they are fully integrated into whiteness. For example, is there a clear and distinct culture for the original white Americans (the slave traders, confederacy, american revolution, etc)? Nope, basic whiteness

Alot of outsiders might see Aframs under a generic term as "black" because they actually aren't fully aware of what Afram culture is on it's full scale outside of mainstream stuff.

I am probably guilty of this.

 

[Supper]

The idea that black people call each other "black people" is a bit disturbing (to me). Yes, there are some of us who are dark-skin. But even among them, I have not seen any skin color be the same color as their hair (which is actually the color black). Just an inaccurate description of ancient white people who weren't very color sophisticated. If I'm gonna call refer to myself using "ancient" terminology then Nubian, Aethiopian, or African would be far better choices than "black". Nubian being the top choice being that, IIRC, Aethiopian is a Greek word for the continent and African is just based on some random Roman who showed up on the coast and "claimed" it.

But I digress. Sorry for going offtopic.

Guinea, Moor, and Aethiopian were all at one time used to describe "black"-skinned people. Including here in the US.
Ethiopian Serenaders - Wikipedia