"Death to the Pessimistic State of Mind" - Nas Voice: NYK '23 Pre-Season Thread

[Knicksman20]

You can make that same case about of lot players in the league and not just Mitchell. As someone else in this said, it's hard enough already having defensive liability out there on the floor and you'd essentially have two of them if you trade for Mitchell. We already saw that happen in the playoffs already where even having a defensive juggernaut like Gobert out there on the floor meant nothing when you had cats like Conley and Mitchell getting hunted. It's only so much coaching will be able to do to hide that and NY doesn't have a defensive player like that.

Robinson isn't close to being a Gobert, so don't try and argue otherwise.

I don't think you can or there would be a lot more elite 2 way players in the league. A lot of these guys don't have the foundation Mitchell had, so becoming a better defender would be even more difficult. Harden, Trae Young, Kyrie, Curry, & many others never had that type of foundation. I believe Mitchell can be a better defender but will he might be a different so

 

[RubioTheCruel]

That jumper’s got me worried at this point. But philly’s track record on developing jump shots feels sketchy (could just be Ben Simmons’ fault), so maybe a change of scenery would get him to where he needs.
You’re def not finding better pure defense than thybulle without some luck, so I could see justifying the move for sure.

Thybulle is a long, long way away. Can't shoot, can't dribble, can't pass, can't finish. Even if he's Pippen level defensively, it's hard to justify playing a guy that woeful offensively.

 

[Thavoiceofthevoiceless]

I don't think you can or there would be a lot more elite 2 way players in the league. A lot of these guys don't have the foundation Mitchell had, so becoming a better defender would be even more difficult. Harden, Trae Young, Kyrie, Curry, & many others never had that type of foundation. I believe Mitchell can be a better defender but will he might be a different so

Mitchell doesn't need to be an elite defender though. That's not what I'm saying. He just needs to be decent enough not to be a liability on the floor. He's not an elite offensive scorer compared to the guys you mentioned (not including Harden right now) nor does he have the all worldy playmaking ability to help mask that aspect as well (not including Kyrie).

If you're going to be below average on defense, you need to at least be all worldy at something else to help make up for it. He's not that and dudes are bugging if you insist otherwise. You would not put him in that group of guys you mentioned when it comes to be all worldy offensive players when they were at their peak. Mitchell just isn't that.

 

[ISO]

Thybulle is a long, long way away. Can't shoot, can't dribble, can't pass, can't finish. Even if he's Pippen level defensively, it's hard to justify playing a guy that woeful offensively.

Tbh all we would need from Thybulle is for him to become a league average three point shooter.

Danny Green can’t dribble, pass, or finish still a fixture on championship teams.

If he does that he satisfies his role and he’s not a bad finisher off cuts and transition opportunities. 81% at the rim, 63 dunks, 52% on his layups.

 

[RubioTheCruel]

Tbh all we would need from Thybulle is for him to become a league average three point shooter.

Thybulle played in college for four years and in the NBA for three years. I'd wager to say his offense is even worse now since teams know he can't shoot, leave him wide open and he still bricks. He is what he is at this point.

 

[storyteller]

Thybulle is a long, long way away. Can't shoot, can't dribble, can't pass, can't finish. Even if he's Pippen level defensively, it's hard to justify playing a guy that woeful offensively.

I just need him to be Bruce Bowen tbh. Hit the corner three's, surprise everyone with the odd drive every once in a while, and swing the ball right back where it came from if he's guarded. He just has to be good enough not to ruin the offense and his defense is useful.

Tbh all we would need from Thybulle is for him to become a league average three point shooter.

Danny Green can’t dribble, pass, or finish still a fixture on championship teams.

If he does that he satisfies his role and he’s not a bad finisher off cuts and transition opportunities. 81% at the rim, 63 dunks, 52% on his layups.

Co-sign.

 

[Thavoiceofthevoiceless]

Thybulle played in college for four years and in the NBA for three years. I'd wager to say his offense is even worse now since teams know he can't shoot, leave him wide open and he still bricks. He is what he is at this point.

If dudes in here think that Thybulle can become average offensive type player and three point shooter, then Philly wouldn't be looking to move him and would keep him instead.

 

[RubioTheCruel]

If dudes in here think that Thybulle can become average offensive type player and three point shooter, then Philly wouldn't be looking to move him and would keep him instead.

Exactly, they're trying to load up on shooters to surround Harden and Embiid(Tucker, House, maybe trade for Gordon, Melton).... why would they move him? Makes no sense.

 

[ikbm]

thybulle is australian andre roberson

 

[ISO]

Mitchell doesn't need to be an elite defender though. That's not what I'm saying. He just needs to be decent enough not to be a liability on the floor. He's not an elite offensive scorer compared to the guys you mentioned (not including Harden right now) nor does he have the all worldy playmaking ability to help mask that aspect as well (not including Kyrie).

If you're going to be below average on defense, you need to at least be all worldy at something else to help make up for it. He's not that and dudes are bugging if you insist otherwise. You would not put him in that group of guys you mentioned when it comes to be all worldy offensive players when they were at their peak. Mitchell just isn't that.

In the playoffs you don’t even have to necessarily be a bad defender to be targeted or exploited. Gobert is not a bad defender was still targeted and exploited. Conley is not a bad defender was still targeted and exploited. Naturally because of his size even if Mitchell was to ramp up to a net neutral to slightly above average defender in the regular season it’s possible that in the playoffs he could be targeted and exploited. That’s why it’s important for teams to anticipate and build teams around that type of shyt.

Also, yes Donovan is that otherworldly on the offensive end.

I’m not sure how he isn’t. His playoff scoring is above these players you have listed. He has been an All-Time level playoff scorer. His regular season success as an offensive engine for the Jazz speaks for itself. His offensive impact numbers place him firmly in the top 10 overall offensive players in the game today and top 5 scorers.

His offensive impact comes from the fact he is one of the most efficient self creators in the game (57% TS, assisted on only 191 of his 670 field goals RS+PS) and his ability to make kick out passes to three point shooters for assists, hockey assists, and further motion that few players can make. He is one of the few players with a relentless offensive motor and bonafide three level scoring.

Watch the damn video…

 

[Knicksman20]

Mitchell doesn't need to be an elite defender though. That's not what I'm saying. He just needs to be decent enough not to be a liability on the floor. He's not an elite offensive scorer compared to the guys you mentioned (not including Harden right now) nor does he have the all worldy playmaking ability to help mask that aspect as well (not including Kyrie).

If you're going to be below average on defense, you need to at least be all worldy at something else to help make up for it. He's not that and dudes are bugging if you insist otherwise. You would not put him in that group of guys you mentioned when it comes to be all worldy offensive players when they were at their peak. Mitchell just isn't that.

We're saying the same thing. The slight difference is, I'm saying he can be a decent defensive player again because of his foundation, the right coach, & his mindset.

His offense is another story. The guy can flat out score and in multiple ways. And he did it not only during the regular season but in the playoffs. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Also remember, he hasn't hit his peak yet

 

[Joe Sixpack]

It's moving backwards to trade for a 25 year old 3x All star

Yeah when he’s a 6’1 SG

 

[Joe Sixpack]

I just need him to be Bruce Bowen tbh. Hit the corner three's, surprise everyone with the odd drive every once in a while, and swing the ball right back where it came from if he's guarded. He just has to be good enough not to ruin the offense and his defense is useful.


Co-sign.

He can’t do that

He’s one dimensional and he can’t shoot

 

[Peter Popoff]

It's moving backwards to trade for a 25 year old 3x All star

nikka, the team already gotta point guard. Giving up half the team plus future prospects for another point guard is mad stupid. fukk Ainge.

 

[Thavoiceofthevoiceless]

We're saying the same thing. The slight difference is, I'm saying he can be a decent defensive player again because of his foundation, the right coach, & his mindset.

His offense is another story. The guy can flat out score and in multiple ways. And he did it not only during the regular season but in the playoffs. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Also remember, he hasn't hit his peak yet

The coach and foundation was already there though, yet his defense was below average. Don’t sit here and act like Snyder is a run of the mill coach that doesn’t know how to coach defense just to excuse Mitchell’s defensive issues.

He would literally be an upgrade over the coaching situations in the majority of the league. Even over Thibs in NY and you’d be lying if you tried arguing otherwise.