"Death to the Pessimistic State of Mind" - Nas Voice: NYK '23 Pre-Season Thread

[storyteller]

That's been 5 years ago and dudes still keep bringing up Mitchell's defense from college and his rookie season like he's still that same player in that aspect

It's those type of comments that are the reason why people clown Mitchell as they don't use those same talking points or excuses with other players who are trash defensively as well.

Brunson and Mitchell is obviously a tough fit defensively, but I have to think they've talked to Thibs about it. Thibs has schemed out great defenses to cover for undersized guards that were worse than Brunson or Mitchell defensively (ie: DJ Augustin). Don's actually a pretty capable defender though we have to go back to his college and rookie seasons to see the best evidence, so it's a reach I admit.

Anyway, I think the Knicks pushed to get Mitch done before he saw other offers because they planned to go small up top. Hartenstein is also an elite defender at the rim. So I'm expecting familiar drop coverage with the small guys going over screens and funneling ball handlers into the big men. I'm not sure how effective that will be, but it worked even with Kemba/Fournier on the perimeter. So I think it should at least be competent enough that the offense can win games.

But the defense questions are why I'm having a tough time deciding whether I prefer to keep IQ or Grimes in an eventual deal. Grimes has a bit more size and defense that could really help in a pinch.

Act like I literally didn't point out it's been years and mention that it's a reach .

 

[storyteller]

Randle and Barrett defensively as the forwards around a hypothetical Mitchell and Brunson backcourt won’t cut it. Those two will have to be upgraded. Knicks will have to upgrade at those forward spots and bring some spot defenders to defend situationally and mix and match line ups too. Both Grimes and Quickley are good defensively would like to keep both along with Obi somehow.

If I’m the Knicks I target Thybulle from Philly who was said to be available.

That's not a bad idea, but I remember hearing Philly's asking price was a pick. I'd pass on that price and try to snag someone closer to the trade deadline when teams give away solid role players for second round picks.

 

[Thavoiceofthevoiceless]

I'm not even a pro Mitchell guy or defender, but what you're choosing to ignore is he's SHOWN he's capable of being a solid defender. Whereas you take someone like Fournier or Trae Young whom NEVER had or shown that type of ability & you're lumping Mitchell with them which isn't fair because your own narrative. No one's saying he's some kind of defensive stopper, but with the right coach, schemes, & Mitchell's own mindset, it can improve more than you're giving credit to/for

He hasn't shown it in years breh that's the difference. He hasn't been that type of defender in years. Going by your logic, we can make the case for a lot of players and what they've shown over the years in hopes that they can be that same type of player again. You say right coach, but overlook the fact that he played for a coach that was known for playing defense with the schemes that he drew up and how good that team was defensively

 

[ISO]

That's not a bad idea, but I remember hearing Philly's asking price was a pick. I'd pass on that price and try to snag someone closer to the trade deadline when teams give away solid role players for second round picks.

I’d give up a pick honestly. His defense is monstrous and if he can get that three ball respectable with us it would be a steal.

I don’t foresee a wing defender at his level coming out the college game in the next decade.

 

[Knicksman20]

He hasn't shown it in years breh that's the difference. He hasn't been that type of defender in years. Going by your logic, we can make the case for a lot of players and what they've shown over the years in hopes that they can be that same type of player again.

Bro, the foundation is there and that's the key. He just has to tap back into it or have the right coach hold him accountable. And he if he's a Knick then some of the offensive load will be lifted than with the Jazz where he can focus more on that end

 

[Thavoiceofthevoiceless]

Bro, the foundation is there and that's the key. He just has to tap back into it or have the right coach hold him accountable. And he if he's a Knick then some of the offensive load will be lifted than with the Jazz where he can focus more on that end

You can make that same case about of lot players in the league and not just Mitchell. As someone else in this said, it's hard enough already having defensive liability out there on the floor and you'd essentially have two of them if you trade for Mitchell. We already saw that happen in the playoffs already where even having a defensive juggernaut like Gobert out there on the floor meant nothing when you had cats like Conley and Mitchell getting hunted. It's only so much coaching will be able to do to hide that and NY doesn't have a defensive player like that.

Robinson isn't close to being a Gobert, so don't try and argue otherwise.

 

[Wargames]

I’m on such another tip from all of ya’ll I am going to keep my opinion to myself.

I will say this I am starting to think this trade doesn’t happen.

 

[ISO]

This shameless Gobert stan needs to talk about his man being hunted

 

[RubioTheCruel]

If I’m the Knicks I target Thybulle from Philly who was said to be available.

man your career as a GM would last three days. You got no problem with Brunson and Mitchell defensively then want to bring in another guy that only plays one way.

Didn't you figure out by now that teams hunt liabilities(both offensive and defensive) in the playoffs? That's what makes Boston so good, they are a long and strong team that doesn't have an easily exploitable part. You wanna play 5v4 on offense and have two defensive sinkholes on defense

 

[Wargames]

If the Knicks don’t do a Donovan Trade I hope they wait and see if OG hits the market. shyt could get real interesting depending on how you feel about Grimes and Barrett.

Brunson/IQ
Grimes/Barrett
OG/Reddish
Randle/IQ
Mitch/IHart

I like that team a lot more than anything ya’ll have put up for Donovan… and that team would be just as primed to trade for a star if they come at a fair price as they are now.


Like real talk they really going to run a Brunson and Mitchell back court with Thibs as the fukking coach.

 

[Peter Popoff]

I think not getting Mitchell is a smart move. I like the kid but it's moving backwards. There's young guys coming up that we're gonna sleep on. Take the L and keep it moving.

 

[firemanBk]

It's moving backwards to trade for a 25 year old 3x All star

 

[ISO]

man your career as a GM would last three days. You got no problem with Brunson and Mitchell defensively then want to bring in another guy that only plays one way.

Didn't you figure out by now that teams hunt liabilities(both offensive and defensive) in the playoffs? That's what makes Boston so good, they are a long and strong team that doesn't have an easily exploitable part. You wanna play 5v4 on offense and have two defensive sinkholes on defense

Beggars can’t be choosers.

Listen I’m not quite sure what y’all nikkas want.

This two way superstar is not on the horizon.

In the playoffs teams exploit weaknesses even players who are normally good defensively or offensively may be targeted to an extent they become liabilities. I know the game.

The Knicks aren’t winning shyt any time soon regardless so why even bring up Boston.

 

[storyteller]

I’d give up a pick honestly. His defense is monstrous and if he can get that three ball respectable with us it would be a steal.

I don’t foresee a wing defender at his level coming out the college game in the next decade.

That jumper’s got me worried at this point. But philly’s track record on developing jump shots feels sketchy (could just be Ben Simmons’ fault), so maybe a change of scenery would get him to where he needs.
You’re def not finding better pure defense than thybulle without some luck, so I could see justifying the move for sure.

 

[Thavoiceofthevoiceless]

If the Knicks don’t do a Donovan Trade I hope they wait and see if OG hits the market. shyt could get real interesting depending on how you feel about Grimes and Barrett.

Brunson/IQ
Grimes/Barrett
OG/Reddish
Randle/IQ
Mitch/IHart

I like that team a lot more than anything ya’ll have put up for Donovan… and that team would be just as primed to trade for a star if they come at a fair price as they are now.


Like real talk they really going to run a Brunson and Mitchell back court with Thibs as the fukking coach.

Supposedly OG wants out as he's not a fan of being behind Siakam and now Barnes. That's why his name kept coming up in rumors this past offseason.