"Death to the Pessimistic State of Mind" - Nas Voice: NYK '23 Pre-Season Thread
- Thread starter DPresidential
- Start date
Rumors of a Melo homecoming on Reddit
Why is that funny? He averaged 13 & 4 off the bench and has said he wants to be around for when his son plays high school ball.
You’re like Candyman, but with “Melo”.
The unsubstantiated rumor was funny to me.
Breathe.
JMurder
SOHH Member since 01...
Thibs ain't the GM. His job is to coach whatever players he's got to the most wins possible
I actually was in here defending RJ, saw your post and asked a question. Yet you still couldn’t answer it.
“The unsubstantiated rumor was funny to me.”
Knicksman20
Superstar
I don't have a sub but I found this:
Knicks’ Obi Toppin Sounds off: ‘You Mess Up, He Gets Mad’ | Heavy.com
JerryWestside
Rookie
Immanuel Quickley has a concise description of what goes on before the Knicks practice.
“Oh, it’s strictly business,” he says. “Strictly business.”
That’s especially true for the young fellas.
When the Knicks hold a practice, they actually have two. There’s the regular one you’d expect with the whole team coming in to work on the day’s topics, and there’s also the one that comes before it. Players have aptly dubbed the latter “Early Group.”
Head coach Tom Thibodeau will bring the young players in first thing to run through offensive sets. Every once in a while, a vet will crash the party, but for the most part, this is a time for the 20-somethings to learn the Thibodeau way and to absorb NBA habits. In two seasons with Thibodeau at the helm, it’s become a Knicks staple.
The 22-year-old Quickley is a regular — as are RJ Barrett, Obi Toppin, Quentin Grimes, Miles McBride, Jericho Sims and the rest of the greener talent.
If you ever wonder why the young guys have a sort of intrinsic, on-court connection — why Quickley finds Toppin for lobs as if they’re telepathic, why Toppin moves the ball so instantaneously when Barrett is alongside him — this may be why. They spend an inordinate amount of time together, even if it’s not always during games.
JerryWestside
Rookie
“When we’re playing together, all the young guys on the court together, it’s easy because we do it every single day before practice,” Toppin said. “Literally, every single day.”
When Thibodeau mentions that “the first step” to gaining playing time is “to practice well,” as he so regularly does, this is often what he’s referencing.
Thibodeau is the one who runs Early Group. He’ll drill the same play over and over.
“You mess up, he gets mad,” Toppin warned.
And then Thibodeau drills that play again. The dedication contrasts the coach’s reputation as someone who cares more about the aged than the youth. Behind closed doors, people around the Knicks paint a different picture than what a glance at Thibodeau’s substitution patterns suggests.
He’s more hands-on with the 20-somethings than it seems when he’s pacing the sidelines. There are the early sessions and the individual ones. Staff members attribute the improvement of Mitchell Robinson over the last two seasons due to the positional defense he learned from watching more game film than ever, an emphasis from Thibodeau, who hosts one-on-one meetings where they watch more video than the Academy does.
When Thibodeau mentions that “the first step” to gaining playing time is “to practice well,” as he so regularly does, this is often what he’s referencing.
Thibodeau is the one who runs Early Group. He’ll drill the same play over and over.
“You mess up, he gets mad,” Toppin warned.
And then Thibodeau drills that play again. The dedication contrasts the coach’s reputation as someone who cares more about the aged than the youth. Behind closed doors, people around the Knicks paint a different picture than what a glance at Thibodeau’s substitution patterns suggests.
He’s more hands-on with the 20-somethings than it seems when he’s pacing the sidelines. There are the early sessions and the individual ones. Staff members attribute the improvement of Mitchell Robinson over the last two seasons due to the positional defense he learned from watching more game film than ever, an emphasis from Thibodeau, who hosts one-on-one meetings where they watch more video than the Academy does.
JerryWestside
Rookie
Thibodeau trusts veterans more in games. If you can’t rent a car in all 50 states, you are less likely to play at 7:30 p.m., but that’s not because he cares naught about development. In Thibodeau’s mind, decisions about rotations and ones about investing in the innocent are two separate topics.
He believes players can improve in other places, such as in Early Group.
Just ask the world’s most studied Thibodeau historian about his coach’s habits.
In March, Barrett joked that Derrick Rose was the president of the Thibodeau fraternity, but Taj Gibson, as he put it, was the Thibs frat MVP. The 36-year-old big man was with the Bulls when Thibodeau earned his first-ever head coaching job there. He played for the coach in Minnesota and now New York. Every stop Thibodeau has made, he’s brought Gibson along. Few coaches speak about any players — heck, few humans speak about other humans — the way Thibodeau does about Gibson. And Gibson has noticed a change in his coach since those days in Chicago, an observation he noted back in the fall.
“He’s with the young guys a lot more now,” Gibson said. “You look at him — I use this example: the relationship between him and Quick. He’s constantly talking to Quick. It’s a good conversation. He’s challenging him but he’s always smiling, always laughing. You can tell he enjoys coaching him. A lot of people gave him flack for not playing rookies, not understanding rookies, and it’s a big change. He likes talking to rooks now. He loves being in the gym with the rooks. That’s how it is.”
And that takes us to a statement from the fingertips of team president Leon Rose, who scribed an email to season-ticket holders last week that The Athletic obtained.
Included in it was praise for the coaching staff, a reminder of the four first-round picks and countless second-rounders the Knicks have over the next three years, and, most interestingly, the following:
“I am particularly proud of the growth, improvement, and fight of our young core this season. We currently have nine players 24 years of age or younger and eight players who are still on their first contracts. We recognize this team-build will be a steady climb, but there are real examples of progress and success, especially from our young core, that we can acknowledge and celebrate.”
He believes players can improve in other places, such as in Early Group.
Just ask the world’s most studied Thibodeau historian about his coach’s habits.
In March, Barrett joked that Derrick Rose was the president of the Thibodeau fraternity, but Taj Gibson, as he put it, was the Thibs frat MVP. The 36-year-old big man was with the Bulls when Thibodeau earned his first-ever head coaching job there. He played for the coach in Minnesota and now New York. Every stop Thibodeau has made, he’s brought Gibson along. Few coaches speak about any players — heck, few humans speak about other humans — the way Thibodeau does about Gibson. And Gibson has noticed a change in his coach since those days in Chicago, an observation he noted back in the fall.
“He’s with the young guys a lot more now,” Gibson said. “You look at him — I use this example: the relationship between him and Quick. He’s constantly talking to Quick. It’s a good conversation. He’s challenging him but he’s always smiling, always laughing. You can tell he enjoys coaching him. A lot of people gave him flack for not playing rookies, not understanding rookies, and it’s a big change. He likes talking to rooks now. He loves being in the gym with the rooks. That’s how it is.”
And that takes us to a statement from the fingertips of team president Leon Rose, who scribed an email to season-ticket holders last week that The Athletic obtained.
Included in it was praise for the coaching staff, a reminder of the four first-round picks and countless second-rounders the Knicks have over the next three years, and, most interestingly, the following:
“I am particularly proud of the growth, improvement, and fight of our young core this season. We currently have nine players 24 years of age or younger and eight players who are still on their first contracts. We recognize this team-build will be a steady climb, but there are real examples of progress and success, especially from our young core, that we can acknowledge and celebrate.”
JerryWestside
Rookie
A steady climb.
Real examples of progress and success.
To some people, the story of the Knicks’ offseason is what’s next for Julius Randle, who cratered after a career performance in 2020-21. Others could argue it’s if they will trade for a star, as has so often been floated, or if they’re even in a position to do so intelligently. Rose’s comments about “a steady climb” would suggest otherwise. But there’s another leading candidate here for story of the summer:
If the young guys are developing, how can the Knicks reward that? They had eight players 24-and-under who played this season. (We’re not including Feron Hunt, as Rose did.) Which ones do they consider part of the future? And how do they even go about choosing?
There were valid arguments to give more time to Quickley and Toppin that had nothing to do with development. The team was consistently better when those two were on the floor, and Alec Burks is not a natural point guard. The 2021-22 Knicks were slow getting into the offense when the non-Early Groupers were out there. Quickley, meanwhile, is an aptonym. And even beyond arguments over who’s the better basketball choice, handing him more time as a conventional point guard at the end of the season could have given the front office concrete examples to evaluate during the summer, when this team’s No. 1 roster hole is at the point.
If this will be a steady climb with the Early Group, then what role do the Knicks see Quickley assuming next season? How can they open up more minutes for Toppin, who slotted behind Randle whenever the former All-Star was healthy because Thibodeau prefers to keep a rim protector on the floor and a Toppin-Randle frontcourt would be devoid of that?
The lack of playing time didn’t ruin careers. Most players of Early Group made obvious improvements this season.
Barrett reidentified as a slasher. Quickley, by season’s end, was far more disciplined going through pick-and-roll reads and as a defender, and he figured out how to get to the rim and free-throw line more, too. Robinson is a better team defender. Grimes cracked the rotation and refused to let go. He’s already a 40 percent 3-point marksman and reliable one-on-one stalwart. Toppin was a faster decision-maker and is far more competent defensively than he was as a rookie. We’ll have to wait to see if his shooting surge at the end of the season was the new norm or just a hot streak. Sims looked lost in the fall and was making fancy swing passes to the corners by the spring.
Real examples of progress and success.
To some people, the story of the Knicks’ offseason is what’s next for Julius Randle, who cratered after a career performance in 2020-21. Others could argue it’s if they will trade for a star, as has so often been floated, or if they’re even in a position to do so intelligently. Rose’s comments about “a steady climb” would suggest otherwise. But there’s another leading candidate here for story of the summer:
If the young guys are developing, how can the Knicks reward that? They had eight players 24-and-under who played this season. (We’re not including Feron Hunt, as Rose did.) Which ones do they consider part of the future? And how do they even go about choosing?
There were valid arguments to give more time to Quickley and Toppin that had nothing to do with development. The team was consistently better when those two were on the floor, and Alec Burks is not a natural point guard. The 2021-22 Knicks were slow getting into the offense when the non-Early Groupers were out there. Quickley, meanwhile, is an aptonym. And even beyond arguments over who’s the better basketball choice, handing him more time as a conventional point guard at the end of the season could have given the front office concrete examples to evaluate during the summer, when this team’s No. 1 roster hole is at the point.
If this will be a steady climb with the Early Group, then what role do the Knicks see Quickley assuming next season? How can they open up more minutes for Toppin, who slotted behind Randle whenever the former All-Star was healthy because Thibodeau prefers to keep a rim protector on the floor and a Toppin-Randle frontcourt would be devoid of that?
The lack of playing time didn’t ruin careers. Most players of Early Group made obvious improvements this season.
Barrett reidentified as a slasher. Quickley, by season’s end, was far more disciplined going through pick-and-roll reads and as a defender, and he figured out how to get to the rim and free-throw line more, too. Robinson is a better team defender. Grimes cracked the rotation and refused to let go. He’s already a 40 percent 3-point marksman and reliable one-on-one stalwart. Toppin was a faster decision-maker and is far more competent defensively than he was as a rookie. We’ll have to wait to see if his shooting surge at the end of the season was the new norm or just a hot streak. Sims looked lost in the fall and was making fancy swing passes to the corners by the spring.
JerryWestside
Rookie
On the other side, the Knicks traded for Cam Reddish in January; Thibodeau buried the 22-year-old until injuries pushed him into the rotation. A shoulder injury in early March ended his season. He didn’t get much game time or Early Group time with the Knicks, considering he joined the team when it was in the midst of an exhausting road stretch, which meant limited practices.
McBride, meanwhile, spent much of his time in the G League and didn’t see much NBA court time, the usual for a rookie second-rounder. He wasn’t supposed to come in and make a difference in year one.
Ask around the league and there’s a common word people use to describe the Knicks’ young core: quantity.
But that descriptor also implies decisions will come about whom to keep.
Many of the 24-and-under players have a chance to become helpful and useful. Some, of course, are already there. The Knicks will add another lottery pick to the mix in June. That’s nearly an entire rotation worth of guys (though Robinson is a free agent) on top of the numerous vets still under contract for next season.
Maybe the Knicks seek out a consolidation trade, swapping two or three players for one to create more space. Maybe they reshuffle the pieces already present. Development is always the preference but it’s only so valuable if the road to showing off that improvement is riddled with obstacles.
Either way, it sounds like next season’s training camp will include many of the young guys that ended this season on the Knicks. Chances are, Thibodeau receives a blessing.
Even more work with Early Group, which means even more of his favorite activity: practice.
“It’s a good opportunity for all of us to work together,” Thibodeau said. “So, you get a chance to see what each player is really good at. They get comfortable with each other and you know over the course of a long season everyone is gonna get the opportunity to play.
“And so, the challenge is to make sure everyone is ready when they get that opportunity.”
McBride, meanwhile, spent much of his time in the G League and didn’t see much NBA court time, the usual for a rookie second-rounder. He wasn’t supposed to come in and make a difference in year one.
Ask around the league and there’s a common word people use to describe the Knicks’ young core: quantity.
But that descriptor also implies decisions will come about whom to keep.
Many of the 24-and-under players have a chance to become helpful and useful. Some, of course, are already there. The Knicks will add another lottery pick to the mix in June. That’s nearly an entire rotation worth of guys (though Robinson is a free agent) on top of the numerous vets still under contract for next season.
Maybe the Knicks seek out a consolidation trade, swapping two or three players for one to create more space. Maybe they reshuffle the pieces already present. Development is always the preference but it’s only so valuable if the road to showing off that improvement is riddled with obstacles.
Either way, it sounds like next season’s training camp will include many of the young guys that ended this season on the Knicks. Chances are, Thibodeau receives a blessing.
Even more work with Early Group, which means even more of his favorite activity: practice.
“It’s a good opportunity for all of us to work together,” Thibodeau said. “So, you get a chance to see what each player is really good at. They get comfortable with each other and you know over the course of a long season everyone is gonna get the opportunity to play.
“And so, the challenge is to make sure everyone is ready when they get that opportunity.”
