This thread
Is just so fukkin bad
I can't even reply beyond my initial 3 character reply.
Is just so fukkin bad
I can't even reply beyond my initial 3 character reply.
Could Winter Soldier be the best superhero movie ever made?
- Thread starter Kill Dat Noize
- Start date
NobodyReally
Superstar
Kill Dat Noize
Banned
you need to get over yourself.
Kill Dat Noize
Banned
another point against dark knight for being the best superhero movie, it doesn't put its hero on a pedestal. it tears him down. they even go as far as to say he isn't really a hero... which is bullshyt.
winter soldier's message is... "hey it's a fukked up world but at least we have captain america to fight the good fight and lead the way towards a brighter tomorrow"
dark knight's message is... "hey it's a fukked up world but at least we have batman to shoulder the burden and shield us from the truth"
So you're going to knock it for being what could be a typical message for a batman story? In a story like the long halloween, the hope comes from batman being the guy who can do what can't be done and willing to shoulder burdens and tackle the bad guys, but gotham is such a place that there will always be something else or someone else to deal with and that it's a never ending battle he's fighting. And as an allegory for 9/11 and the war on terror, that's definitely the message it was going with. How far is too far to catch a terrorist? Are we as a city or a country willing to compromise our morals for the good of the nation or does the good of the nation suffer when we compromise and cover up the truth and lie, even if we feel like it's in the best interest of the country. Those are questions that batman has always dealt with. His actions and how far he's willing to go is something even his teammates bring up and it was the core of Snyder's Death of the family arc.
I don't feel like it's tone or message makes it less of a flick than Cap 2 at all breh. It fits its hero to a tee
AnonymityX1000
Veteran
Hmm . . .that's interesting. I guess TDK is a more cynical movie on theme. Not sure one is better than the other, just depends who you ask. Some have that worldview 'shyt is fukked up and never going to get better', while others do think society can improve.
I don't see how that can be seen as a point against TDK though. That is actually a point in its favor because it does something different with the genre than the same old optimistic hero trope.
TDK is definitely more cynical than the majority of the super-hero movies that have been released. That is probably why I like it so much.
And it's perfect for a guy who has to really fight himself to see the best in people
AnonymityX1000
Veteran
Yeah and comparing to something like Winter Soldier makes for interesting commentary because don't we all battle with how cynical we all should be on both an individual and societal level? Both are making definitive statements in that regard.
There's a lot of reasons to like TDK so yeah definitely can be added to the list.
Kill Dat Noize
Banned
aren't characters like batman supposed to be symbols meant to inspire people? to remind us that good must triumph over evil?
A character like Batman is there to remind us that we too can push ourselves to be smarter, stronger and more capable simply through will and determination and focus. That we too could overcome some awful heinous shyt in order to do something with it and turn that sadness into some sort of triumph. He's there to inspire people to be that, but in dark knight, and other batman stories, he's there to inspire us to make the hard choices and to do what we have to do sometimes, even if it's to our own detriment. A true hero does that breh; you do what's necessary, even if it sucks.
It would have been ripped apart just as much as The Dark Knight Rises and Skyfall (Bond version of TDK) were without Ledger's performance.
The movie was already running out of steam before it's true climax which is chase scene and Joker's initial capture. Everything after in that drawn out last hour outside of a few scenes was just
and a mess.
Happy to see Watchmen get some love because I think it's the most ambitious and different superhero movie. Possibly the best as well. I think The Dark Knight is easily the best and the stretching being done to disagree kind of proves that point. There are a couple Spiderman movies I'd put up there. Kickass is up there. At least two or three X-Men movies belong in the discussion. The Blade films. Hellboy. Honestly, I don't think Winter Soldier makes my top ten since I'm putting Ironman and Avengers ahead of it as well. Man of Steel got brought up. FX or TNT has been playing it recently and I realized it's a lot better than it gets credit for and the criticisms it receives are pretty much bullshyt
