Coronavirus Thread: Worldwide Pandemic
- Thread starter 88m3
- Start date
The WaPo article said Biden just ordered enough vaccines to ensure virtually every American can be vaccinated. My comment in response to that. From what I've been reading most experts are saying 70-75% of the population needs to be vaccinated for herd immunity. I understand having a little extra but it seems like ordering enough vaccines for every single person may be a waste of resources.
See above.
Sounds like he's trying to say numbers are cooked. Either that they were upped to hurt Trump or lowered now for Biden
Instead of taking a look at the calendar and seeing that we're now almost a month away from the spikes that happened due to New Years Eve.
Just as we had back to back spikes thanks to Thanksgiving and Christmas.
You know, you're right. Didn't think of that, however the coverage of this thing has been sensationalized. Even still, if you take a look at the slide in new cases between the peak at Jan 9th and yesterday, it is quite steep.
covid tracker - Google Search
Even CNN booted their COVID tracker.
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Herd immunity will not stop an individual getting sick and they think that that ~70 range will be higher now with these new mutants.
Gotcha. Well what happens if there's another mutation 4-5 months from now? Will Covid just become a cyclical thing where you have to get a shot every year?
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Generally
but Pfizer and Moderna have just said that they are producing booster shots for some of the current mutants.Pfizer CEO says it's making booster shots for coronavirus variants | Daily Mail Online
Moderna insists its Covid vaccine DOES work on new coronavirus variants | Daily Mail Online
Hood Critic
The Power Circle
Doesn't matter. You still need to be able to supply every American with the vaccine if they wish to get it.
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Slim Charles
All Star
8% !?!
EU and EU member states all talking shyt and panicking because they were slow to move on the vaccine contracts. Interview below with CEO of AstraZeneca basically giving EU that ether and lays out clear why there is delays in the EU, how the 8% figure is BS and why issues with vaccines in EU is all their own fault pretty much
Pascal Soriot: "There are a lot of emotions on vaccines in EU. But it's complicated"
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re.
Handelsblatt (The more serious of German quoted newspapers) has doubled down on that claim.
from Yesterday 18:21 26. Jan
They say that there were not enough older people in the trial to reach the requisite confidence level.
"Offen ist allerdings, ob die EU-Arzneimittelagentur Ema die Datenlage als ausreichend bewertet, um das Präparat auch für die Altersgruppe der über 65-Jährigen zuzulassen. Bei der Videokonferenz hielt sich der Minister bei dieser Frage bedeckt, hieß es in Länderkreisen."
"Das Handelsblatt hatte in diesem Zusammenhang auch über interne Berechnungen einer Bundesbehörde im Geschäftsbereich des Gesundheitsministeriums berichtet, in denen die Wirksamkeit des Impfstoffs von Astra-Zeneca für die Altersklasse 65 Jahre und älter auf Grundlage der vorläufigen Studiendaten des Pharmakonzerns nur auf acht Prozent beziffert wurde."
"Die Sorge über einen niedrigen Schutzgrad bei Senioren wurde von Quellen in Koalition und Behörden bestätigt. Auch die „Bild“-Zeitung berichtete über eine mögliche Wirksamkeit des Impfstoffs bei Älteren „von unter zehn Prozent“
"Ein Beschluss wurde noch nicht gefasst. Aus zwei Länderministerien erfuhr das Handelsblatt, dass die Ministerrunde sich am Samstag wieder zusammenschalten wolle – für den Fall, dass die generell erwartete Zulassung des Mittels von Astra-Zeneca eine Einschränkung für Senioren enthalten würde."
"Fachbehörden hatten sich seit Beginn der Woche indes skeptisch mit Blick auf die dünne Datenlage bei der besonders gefährdeten betagten Risikogruppe geäußert. „Basierend auf den derzeit verfügbaren zu geringen Studiendaten in dieser Altersgruppe kann die Wirksamkeit nicht abschließend beurteilt werden“, heißt es etwa im Umfeld der Ständigen Impfkommission. Man könne bei der Impfstoffzulassung nicht „nach dem Prinzip Hoffnung“ vorgehen."
"Rund acht Prozent der Probanden der Astra-Zeneca-Wirksamkeitsstudie waren zwischen 56 und 69 Jahren, nur drei bis vier Prozent über 70 Jahre“, erklärte ein Sprecher."
"Das Handelsblatt hatte in diesem Zusammenhang auch über interne Berechnungen einer Bundesbehörde im Geschäftsbereich des Gesundheitsministeriums berichtet, in denen die Wirksamkeit des Impfstoffs von Astra-Zeneca für die Altersklasse 65 Jahre und älter auf Grundlage der vorläufigen Studiendaten des Pharmakonzerns nur auf acht Prozent beziffert wurde."
"Die Sorge über einen niedrigen Schutzgrad bei Senioren wurde von Quellen in Koalition und Behörden bestätigt. Auch die „Bild“-Zeitung berichtete über eine mögliche Wirksamkeit des Impfstoffs bei Älteren „von unter zehn Prozent“
"Ein Beschluss wurde noch nicht gefasst. Aus zwei Länderministerien erfuhr das Handelsblatt, dass die Ministerrunde sich am Samstag wieder zusammenschalten wolle – für den Fall, dass die generell erwartete Zulassung des Mittels von Astra-Zeneca eine Einschränkung für Senioren enthalten würde."
"Fachbehörden hatten sich seit Beginn der Woche indes skeptisch mit Blick auf die dünne Datenlage bei der besonders gefährdeten betagten Risikogruppe geäußert. „Basierend auf den derzeit verfügbaren zu geringen Studiendaten in dieser Altersgruppe kann die Wirksamkeit nicht abschließend beurteilt werden“, heißt es etwa im Umfeld der Ständigen Impfkommission. Man könne bei der Impfstoffzulassung nicht „nach dem Prinzip Hoffnung“ vorgehen."
"Rund acht Prozent der Probanden der Astra-Zeneca-Wirksamkeitsstudie waren zwischen 56 und 69 Jahren, nur drei bis vier Prozent über 70 Jahre“, erklärte ein Sprecher."
"However, it is unclear whether the EU drug agency Ema assesses the data situation as sufficient to also approve the preparation for the age group of over 65 years. At the video conference, the minister kept a low profile on this question, according to the Länder."
'In this context, the Handelsblatt had also reported on internal calculations by a federal authority in the department of the Ministry of Health, in which the effectiveness of the Astra-Zeneca vaccine for the age group 65 years and older was only estimated at eight percent based on the pharmaceutical company's preliminary study data."
"Concerns about a low level of protection among seniors have been confirmed by sources in coalition and authorities. The "Bild" newspaper also reported a possible effectiveness of the vaccine in older people "of less than ten percent"."
"A decision has not yet been made. The Handelsblatt learned from two state ministries that the ministerial round wanted to meet again on Saturday - in the event that the generally expected approval of the Astra-Zeneca drug contains a restriction for senior citizens."
"Since the beginning of the week, specialist authorities had expressed their skepticism about the sparse data situation for the particularly endangered elderly risk group. "Based on the currently available insufficient study data in this age group, the efficacy cannot be conclusively assessed," it says in the context of the Standing Vaccination Commission. We cannot proceed “utilising the principle of hope” with the vaccine approval. "
"Around eight percent of the subjects in the Astra-Zeneca effectiveness study were between 56 and 69 years of age, only three to four percent over 70 years," said a spokesman. "
'In this context, the Handelsblatt had also reported on internal calculations by a federal authority in the department of the Ministry of Health, in which the effectiveness of the Astra-Zeneca vaccine for the age group 65 years and older was only estimated at eight percent based on the pharmaceutical company's preliminary study data."
"Concerns about a low level of protection among seniors have been confirmed by sources in coalition and authorities. The "Bild" newspaper also reported a possible effectiveness of the vaccine in older people "of less than ten percent"."
"A decision has not yet been made. The Handelsblatt learned from two state ministries that the ministerial round wanted to meet again on Saturday - in the event that the generally expected approval of the Astra-Zeneca drug contains a restriction for senior citizens."
"Since the beginning of the week, specialist authorities had expressed their skepticism about the sparse data situation for the particularly endangered elderly risk group. "Based on the currently available insufficient study data in this age group, the efficacy cannot be conclusively assessed," it says in the context of the Standing Vaccination Commission. We cannot proceed “utilising the principle of hope” with the vaccine approval. "
"Around eight percent of the subjects in the Astra-Zeneca effectiveness study were between 56 and 69 years of age, only three to four percent over 70 years," said a spokesman. "
Astra-Zeneca: Kontroverse um Covid-19-Impfstoff
We will see when the EU decides.
Skewing the subjects towards younger people, ignoring the effects of shielding and using self-reporting to assess illness were all questionable in some of these trials.
There is clearly something else other than just "science" going on here so I will wait to see. The Brits (as masters of propaganda) have already loaded the press with stories of anti-Brit / Brexit / vaccine competition skulduggery. The Brits are focusing on the 8% rather than the underlying question of whether the test data per age-group range is sufficient.
One reason why the Germans are focusing on this age group is that their roll-out plan reserved the AstraZenica vaccine for older people, with the plan to inject them local to their homes and/or in facilities without the means to store the mRNA options.
So for now
. The decision should be made by Friday.
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Had it. On day 13 since my first symptom. I think im over the hump. Spread it to the wife, but somehow neither kid got it. Had them tested twice since we been in quarantine. First few days are rough. Blessed neither of us had to go to hospital for extreme symptoms. Wear the mask.
Slim Charles
All Star
So for now
the AZ/ Oxford one has certainly had less trials on significantly older populations and this was the decision of Oxford University as didn't consider it at this stage to be ethnical to do so. So they're right in Germany that the evidence is less, but talk of 8% efficacy is a wild statement. The data will come. It sounds like a misjudgement to keep the AZ/ Oxford one for older people when they should have known the trials focused on younger people and therefore Moderna or Pfizer one perhaps best for older people if more confident in their data. This is from the interview i posted:
“The issue with the elderly data is not so much whether it works or not. It´s that we have today a limited amount of data in the older population. You have to think that the program we have today was run by Oxford, it was the Oxford program. And Oxford is an academy group. They´re very ethical, and very academic. So they didn´t want to vaccinate older people until they had accumulated a lot of safety data in the 18 to 55 group. They said it was not ethical to vaccinate old people until they had enough safety data in younger people. Other companies took this risk, went ahead and vaccinated older people faster or earlier. If you start earlier, you have more data. Essentially, because Oxford started vaccinating older people later, we don´t have a huge number of older people who have been vaccinated. So that's what the debate is. But we have strong data showing very strong antibody production against the virus in the elderly, similar to what we see in younger people. It's possible that some countries, out of caution, will use our vaccine for the younger group. But honestly, it is fine. There's no enough vaccines for everybody. So if they want to use another vaccine for older people and our vaccine for younger people, what´s the problem? It’s not a problem. We're trying to deal with this crisis together. If you add up our capacity, plus the Pfizer capacity, plus the Moderna capacity, there’s not enough in the world. There's not enough for the entire world. I personally think that the group of people who are between 50 and 70 are an important group to protect. If you are 50, 60, you need to be protected. Many people may have hypertension, overweight, you need to protect them. And the younger people, at some point, we need to protect them also. So, even though no country has done so so far, it’s possible that some countries will say: we will not use the AZ vaccine in older people until we have the US data confirming that it is indeed to be used in older people. Different groups or countries will take different approaches. The UK said: we believe it works in older people, we’re going to use it in older people”.
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This German guy says that the EU paid in advance for vaccines to be produced in the 3rd quarter of 2020. And now they are asking where those prepaid vaccines are. I am guessing that is why they want to know where vaccines are being exported to. He also says that legal recourse is too slow to help with the more important immediate problem of vaccinating everyone.
He says it in German but it is good to get the story from the other side, and to get it from the horse's mouth.
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Why are you focusing on 8%? That is letting the (english language) press lead you. Even if it was 40% it would not get licensed for that age-group.
The trials need to provide positive data that it works. In the absence of enough of that what do Oxford/AZ expect the EU to do?
This isn't the only issue mind you.
