Copa América 2024 [6/20-7/14] “Coming 2 America” (Final: Argentina/Colombia)

[IIVI]

1. 5’7 148 sure but that’s with insane core strength, recovery, straight line and lateral quickness…bros not a ordinary person come on. No professional athlete is normal. Height and weight don’t always tell the whole story in sports. I agree he’s autistic when it comes to football though, one of a kind

2. You’re right, good programs don’t mean that, there’s a lot of other factors. But it definitely increases your chances. You don’t produce a Ronaldhino without the infrastructure and culture Brazil has for football. Etc etc

I'm not saying he's an ordinary person athletically, I'm saying he's a solid professional athlete. However he isn't going to go sky high on a vertical jump or anything compared to some of these cats who are 5'5 and dunking.

A lot of his agility also comes from the fact that he's 5'7 and that gives him a very nice advantage because Physics tells us shorter and compact = more agility (which is why trainers for figure skating and gymnastics always want small athletes) and he's just so much more maneuverable at that height.

The guy is athletic in his own way don't get me wrong, but there's a reason he still is highly effective at nearly 40 and far from the athlete he once was. If you were to put a percentage, I'd say the reason he dominates via 80% mental, 20% physical, maybe even more than that. In other sports some greats dominate 20/80 because they're physically that much superior and their opponents simply can't do anything about it, like they just need a base amount of skill and let their physique do the rest.

 

[Bigwhite2498]

Like Kobe said, quickness is a mentality though.

To be able to tell yourself "I want to be there, back here then over there and zip the ball from this foot to there and over their head" has as much to do with the brain and processing as it does your body to be capable of it.

It requires coordination and fast twitchiness, but the elite of the elite simply think differently on top of it and not everyone is that special.

Idk about that Kobe quote cause he definitely wasn’t moving quick after then injury even though he was probably mental moving quick. I love Kobe but quickness like Messi is rare he was super explosive

 

[Bigwhite2498]

I'm not saying he's an ordinary person athletically, I'm saying he's a solid professional athlete. However he isn't going to go sky high on a vertical jump or anything compared to some of these cats who are 5'5 and dunking.

A lot of his agility also comes from the fact that he's 5'7 and that gives him a very nice advantage because Physics tells us shorter and compact = more agility (which is why trainers for figure skating and gymnastics always want small athletes) and he's just so much more maneuverable at that height.

The guy is athletic in his own way don't get me wrong, but there's a reason he still is highly effective at nearly 40 and far from the athlete he once was. If you were to put a percentage, I'd say the reason he dominates is 80% mental, 20% physical. In other sports the greats maybe more like 60/40 or 50/50. Some people simply dominate because they're physically that much superior and their opponents simply can't do anything about it.

I mean he might not have a high vert but that don’t mean he don’t have elite athleticism lol reed sheppard jumped out the gym at the combine but he’s not super athletic

 

[IIVI]

I mean he might not have a high vert but that don’t mean he don’t have elite athleticism lol reed sheppard jumped out the gym at the combine but he’s not super athletic

I get what you're saying and it's a factor, but he's not dominating because of his athleticism though. The athleticism gives him the floor, but it's not his ceiling.

The guy is a different level because he's basically seeing things and anticipating multiple steps ahead of everyone else on that field. There are many more athletic people on that field than Messi but he makes fools out of them all the time. That's something else entirely.

Like I get you need to still be in shape to play the game, but setting teammates up like this requires more than the gym:


Like dude is bending/lofting it to a teammate on the other side of the field that all those other pro players who've been playing the game for decades don't see and now they're wide open. Also passing people open the way he does. You see defenders hit that "Oh shyt!" then put there head down and run when they see where he's going with the pass. That's just a very rare gift.

 

[Jmare007]

1. 5’7 148 sure but that’s with insane core strength, recovery, straight line and lateral quickness, power…bros not a ordinary person come on. No professional athlete is normal. Height and weight don’t always tell the whole story in sports. I agree he’s autistic when it comes to football though, one of a kind

2. You’re right, good programs don’t mean that, there’s a lot of other factors. But it definitely increases your chances. You don’t produce a Ronaldhino without the infrastructure and culture Brazil has for football. Etc etc

The only thing Messi had when he was young, before Barcelona took him, was an insane skill to keep the ball close to his feet at all times no matter what he did. And that's not something that you can teach.

Most of the things you are referring to in point 1.- are things that he was able to develop thanks to Barca putting him in hormone treatment (he was underdeveloped by a 13 year old standards). Physically speaking, he truly was nothing to write home about. He was able to work on it and become a true athlete, but the thing that makes him special are stuff outside of his athleticism.

The point is that even if he never goes to La Masia, he would've still had a 1 in a billion ability to keep the ball close the his feet.


Now, anyone saying that a player of his class is not athletically impressive is just a dumbass, but that's a different discussion I think lol.

 

[jerzboy]

Messi is athletic as hell tho bro and we definitely can Argentina produces hella top quality players so does the Brazil

Don’t argue with him. lol. Messi is athletic as fukk. His footwork and balance is top notch and comparable to any elite athlete. His footwork alone would translate to football (American) or basketball.

 

[jerzboy]

Youth soccer expensive as hell you not getting no vini jr Messi or Ronaldo from the slums at them prices

$600 here in Jersey… we produce a good amount of soccer athletes, but to say $600 is anywhere reasonable is a joke…

 

[hood b. goode]

Q bout it

 

[Bigwhite2498]

I get what you're saying and it's a factor, but he's not dominating because of his athleticism though. The athleticism gives him the floor, but it's not his ceiling.

The guy is a different level because he's basically seeing things and anticipating multiple steps ahead of everyone else on that field. There are many more athletic people on that field than Messi but he makes fools out of them all the time. That's something else entirely.

Like I get you need to still be in shape to play the game, but setting teammates up like this requires more than the gym:


Like dude is bending/lofting it to a teammate on the other side of the field that all those other pro players who've been playing the game for decades don't see and now they're wide open. Also passing people open the way he does. You see defenders hit that "Oh shyt!" then put there head down and run when they see where he's going with the pass. That's just a very rare gift.

Yea but you can say the same for any all time great my only point was he had insane athleticism too not just skill that you need both to be elite.

 

[Bboystyle]

GG fakkits

1 goal in 3 games

 

[Bigwhite2498]

Don’t argue with him. lol. Messi is athletic as fukk. His footwork and balance is top notch and comparable to any elite athlete. His footwork alone would translate to football (American) or basketball.

Ikr that’s all I’m saying lol like ik he skilled but he also was athletic as hell

 

[IIVI]

Ikr that’s all I’m saying lol like ik he skilled but he also was athletic as hell

But why do you think he dominates? What percentage athleticism vs mental?

I personally think it's 80/20. A lot of elite athletes are on that field with him, but that's not his main edge out there.

When people dominate like that with similarly conditioned athletes on the other side, it's completely something else.

 

[Bigwhite2498]

But why do you think he dominates? What percentage athleticism vs mentals?

I personally think it's 80/20. A lot of elite athletes are on that field with him, but that's not his main edge out there.

It’s both you need both to dominate if that 80/20 was true then he would still be a Barca dominating. It’s like bron yea he still technically put up numbers but it’s not the same because the athleticism has gon down a lot

 

[IIVI]

It’s both you need both to dominate if that 80/20 was true then he would still be a Barca dominating. It’s like bron yea he still technically put up numbers but it’s not the same because the athleticism has gon down a lot

Fair enough.

To me however, I think because he was a complete soccer player which is what made him special and he wouldn't be there without that primarily. Dude is regarded as one of the best dribblers of all-time.

You simply can't grow that in a gym or training regimen like it's an everyday thing, dude is one in tens of billions special. That'a my point here.

 

[PHamm]

You are about to witness the greatest performance in USA sports history