Oh sorry, I forgot this is the group that still thinks Americans want sweeping systemic change and anything other than that is a failure. Not sure why I continue to engage you when you quote me. 
Coli centrists, what's so great about centrism: come in here and sell us on your political leaning
- Thread starter Jalether
- Start date
Godless Socialist CEO
Superstar
Grown ass men just being naive and burying their heads in the sand
Godless Socialist CEO
Superstar
Oh sorry, I forgot this is the group that still thinks Americans want sweeping systemic change and anything other than that is a failure. Not sure why I continue to engage you when you quote me.
Americans are the unhappiest they've been in 50 years, poll finds
Just 14% of U.S. adults say they're very happy.
American happiness hits record lows
One word can describe how Americans are feeling about the way things are going: bad. That's the finding of a new Gallup poll out Wednesday that measures the state of the nation, and it's what a lot of other data tells us as well.
amp.cnn.com
Yeah Americans def don’t want change. Mind of a child
fail to interpret data brehsAmericans are the unhappiest they've been in 50 years, poll finds
Just 14% of U.S. adults say they're very happy.www.nbcnews.com
American happiness hits record lows
One word can describe how Americans are feeling about the way things are going: bad. That's the finding of a new Gallup poll out Wednesday that measures the state of the nation, and it's what a lot of other data tells us as well.
Yeah Americans def don’t want change. Mind of a child
NZA
LOL
on persuasion. if the problem was "persuasion", we would already be a canada-styled government at the least. the problem is coercion. the left has no power. centrists and right wingers have far more money and violence than the left. this means that non-rightwing voters have forces coercing them to vote for stability or rightward shift (harm reduction). politicians are constantly in need of funding with strings attached. the commentary is never that the progressive is really wrong to want better for people, but that attempting to get better will cause the right to punish society more than it already has. this is not simply persuasion. this is a lack of power to achieve gains and protect marginalized people.
the left in other countries often hold more capacity for violence, and alter the political calculus in their own country by revolution or threat.
the left in other countries often hold more capacity for violence, and alter the political calculus in their own country by revolution or threat.
I think Americans would embrace widespread change, but I also think that they’re not expecting it. The typical American doesn’t expect the government to do anything for them. I’ve said this routinely, I accept the fact that I am further left than most Americans. But I don’t accept that the Overton window is static and can’t be shaped. I think you guys often confuse the roles of advocate and “pragmatist” when they don’t have the same role. I push for progressive policies all day between elections and then on Election Day I say vote for the choice that makes the most sense. Why do you feel the need to ridicule and laugh at people for advocating for what they want? It’s not your politics that bothers people, it’s your entire approach to politics. There’s this spitting on highly intelligent, successful and educated people who just happen to be to your left just voicing what they feel. You don’t have to agree with them. And you’re all going to makeOh sorry, I forgot this is the group that still thinks Americans want sweeping systemic change and anything other than that is a failure. Not sure why I continue to engage you when you quote me.
The same choice on Election Day when it’s D versus R. Why make that choice so hard to stomach? That was ultimately the failing of the Clinton 2016 campaign that Biden didn’t repeat. He made it easier to stomach whereas Hillary’s campaign talked to progressives like you do. There’s a big difference in progressives shytting on big money interests than you shytting on people advocating for policies that effect working class people. The latter is more personal. I understood that even when I was more of a moderate - it’s like one of the first things I learned in politics as a teenager. It’s part of Obama’s talent - he could make the left feel like he at least fukked with them at heart even if he didn’t.
I say this as someone who voted for Hillary and told everyone to do the same because we would end up right here where we are at.
New Jeruzalem Journalist
Superstar
Centrist mouthpieces complaining about shyt posting...when there are entire accounts on this site created solely for the purpose of trashing progressive candidates and ideals (to say nothing of the posters that only do that say 80% of the time) is pretty damn funny.
There isn’t one. But I’d argue that the “moderate” candidates would be more progressive than moderate 08 Obama and Clinton because of the shift in the Overton window.An interesting thread would be who are the progressive candidates we should be looking at in 2024 on a national level. HL has us well educated on the shytiness of our current political sludge, but I’m all ears to hear who they think can unite the nation
so which tired, unelectable communist will you be supporting in the next primary
your definition of trolling leaves something to be desired, berniewood
I think there are areas where Americans would embrace widespread change. But like might adoption models they don't look to do it all at once. When we launch new product features we don't just push them all out at once and say, "Hey, you'll love it once you get used to it." We know that when you make large wholesale changes people face pushback and long term adoptions rate suffer or people reject the product altogether. Practical example, Windows 8 and Windows 10 launches. Customers stuck with Windows XP and Windows 7. It's easier and more beneficial when making wholesale changes to fix the subsets that lead to an overall change of the whole and explain to people how to these changes are better.
No one has explained why that model doesn't apply to policy. Instead, it's just hand-waiving it away as incrementalism.
Of course not. Our governing system is broken and the institutions aren't functioning in the ways that people were taught they should nor in ways they did in the past when we saw more programs being pushed out. I don't think anyone disagrees here.
It doesn't bother me that you're further left than I am. It also doesn't bother me that others are further right. Largely because there is overlap among policies we share and I think it's important for us to push for those changes. Hyper partisanship and a broken Senate are big obstacles for that goal.
Regarding the Overton window, I wonder what shift you're looking to see? We already see many programs are popular across the spectrum at this point, but there is little meaningful gain. What other perception are you looking for that will elicit a response that will give you that outcome?
I push for the policies I care most about and on election day I make the practical decision on who will provide more good than bad. I expect this is the norm despite the criticisms I see on display here.
I laugh at people who think that their views are the only things that matter because I know that isn't realistic and that's not reality. Most of these people here aren't here to discuss policy and it shows. As a result, the tone of our interaction has shifted in the 6 years that I've been here. I mean, what is this thread really? A guy made a thread, allegedly asking an honest question, only to make numerous posts before he even got a response talking shyt about the people he wants to engage. Then you all come in here wondering why people treat them with disdain. It's earned.
Just look at the response to my otherwise harmless quote: "I'm willing to sacrifice positions I don't care about as much to get the things I find more important" was met with the nonsensical take of "you want to kill people!"
That's goofy.
Sorry man, but this should be targeted to your fellow leftist posters. Most of the "pragmatists" here don't actually care what policies you adopt. Just don't act like people are engaging in active harm because they have different political views than you might on the same spectrum. Majority of the threads are neoliberal this, centrists that, blah blah blah.
As an intelligent, educated, successful person, I am happy enough in my life that the musings of HL doesn't affect my life because I know people don't actually act like this in real life when it's time to get the work done. You know this as well.
Come on man. We know that progressives aren't the group that pushed Biden over the top compared to Hillary.
Again, your progressives friends who need to persuade people to get the systemic change they want should take this advice. As I've said before, most of what I advocate for affects other people more than it does me. Either way my life isn't going to change much.
Voters ultimately bear responsibility. Elections have consequences.
Last edited:
Threads aren't even about what policies can be pushed. Just about what named clique you roll with
Doesn’t the same apply the other way as well. If some people in here took a second to stop trying to shyt on people for not thinking exactly like them, they’d find out they have more in common then they’d expect and therefore should be working with them. But that’s too much like right.