Cold War II: The United States vs Trump and Co. A Russian Affair

[Reality]

Rushing to impeachment without all evidence and criminality in hand is giving Trump an easy exoneration campaign re-election slogan while making Democrats look dumb in the process. Trump actually wants Pelosi to impeach him. Don't play into the devil's hand.

This argument fails because it assumes that republicans will play ball somehow. There is no circumstance in which "all evidence and criminality" will be on hand. The only concern I'd have with impeachment would be if it precludes Trump from prosecution after he leaves office. That option needs to stay on the table regardless.

You're also failing to realize that Democrats are going to look really, really dumb to their own constituents if they decide to sit on their hands after 2 years of saying collusion / obstruction and getting a referral from the special counsel. Moderates will also think they look fukking ridiculous.

Your endgame hinges solely on winning an election and that's proven to be a terrible strategy.

 

[Worthless Loser]

This argument fails because it assumes that republicans will play ball somehow. There is no circumstance in which "all evidence and criminality" will be on hand. The only concern I'd have with impeachment would be if it precludes Trump from prosecution after he leaves office. That option needs to stay on the table regardless.

You're also failing to realize that Democrats are going to look really, really dumb to their own constituents if they decide to sit on their hands after 2 years of saying collusion / obstruction and getting a referral from the special counsel. Moderates will also think they look fukking ridiculous.

Your endgame hinges solely on winning an election and that's proven to be a terrible strategy.

Democrat's constituents want to impeach on liberal outrage. They should not be listened to. If you have direct evidence of major financial fraud then it's worth it to see if Senate Republicans will play ball. Because that evidence will shift public impeachment opinion much more favorable to Democrats.

It's removal or bust. Impeaching Trump on current evidence (which is no conspiracy with the Russians, potential Obstruction but Mueller wouldn't come out and say it) knowing its going to fail in the Senate will make those same constituents pissed off at Republicans when they knew what would happen anyway. Those same Republicans in the Senate won't face any consequences in the 2020 election either like people think. The 2020 Senate map favors Democrats anyway.

You guys don't get it. Impeachment is not considered a consequence for Trump. He welcomes it based on the current evidence because he knows he can weaponize it. Only removal is is a consequence.

 

[Reality]

Democrat's constituents want to impeach on liberal outrage. They should not be listened to. If you have direct evidence of major financial fraud then it's worth it to see if Senate Republicans will play ball. Because that evidence will shift public impeachment opinion much more favorable to Democrats.

It's removal or bust. Impeaching Trump on current evidence (which is no conspiracy with the Russians, potential Obstruction but Mueller wouldn't come out and say it) knowing its going to fail in the Senate will make those same constituents pissed off at Republicans when they knew what would happen anyway. Those same Republicans in the Senate won't face any consequences in the 2020 election either like people think. The 2020 Senate map favors Democrats anyway.

You guys don't get it. Impeachment is not considered a consequence for Trump. He welcomes it based on the current evidence because he knows he can weaponize it. Only removal is is a consequence.

If your argument leads with "it's worth it to see if Senate Republicans will play ball" in 2019, after all that we've seen, I don't know what to tell you. That's a losing argument.

Also, it's not removal or bust. The evidence is damning enough but the American public has had no opportunity to evaluate it. Impeachment allows for democrats to dominate the news cycle with Trump's misgivings. You also need to realize that Trump himself is TERRIBLE when he's off balance. Literally the day after Mueller's press conference he got flustered and conceded that the Russians acted to help him before walking it back the next day. He hates any suggestion of illegitimacy with respect to his presidency, and loses his mind when it's the topic. We need a year and a half of public hearings with it being the topic.

On your point re: no conspiracy with the Russians - what? What exactly was the reason for obstruction then? You can't have the conversation about obstruction without having the conversation about Russian involvement in the election.

Sorry breh, but you don't get it. Stop confusing Republicans for moderates, and stop thinking Trump is good at playing 4D chess. He's not good off balance.

 

[Worthless Loser]

If your argument leads with "it's worth it to see if Senate Republicans will play ball" in 2019, after all that we've seen, I don't know what to tell you. That's a losing argument.

Also, it's not removal or bust. The evidence is damning enough but the American public has had no opportunity to evaluate it. Impeachment allows for democrats to dominate the news cycle with Trump's misgivings. You also need to realize that Trump himself is TERRIBLE when he's off balance. Literally the day after Mueller's press conference he got flustered and conceded that the Russians acted to help him before walking it back the next day. He hates any suggestion of illegitimacy with respect to his presidency, and loses his mind when it's the topic. We need a year and a half of public hearings with it being the topic.

On your point re: no conspiracy with the Russians - what? What exactly was the reason for obstruction then? You can't have the conversation about obstruction without having the conversation about Russian involvement in the election.

Sorry breh, but you don't get it. Stop confusing Republicans for moderates, and stop thinking Trump is good at playing 4D chess. He's not good off balance.

Impeachment is not going to dramatically effect Trump's approval ratings or the public opinion on him for the worse.

The only thing that could truly hurt Trump is Trump campaign conspiracy with the Russians, which apparently didn't happen, or major financial crimes. Obstruction is not big enough even if you include Presidential abuse of power and him still making money on Trump property when he's not suppose to. He's basically proven himself to be teflon through everything else.

Impeach in the House, fail miserably in the Senate when the Democratic voters and Democrats know it would fail in the Senate, Trump laughs at them nonstop, then Democrats go to Democratic voters and say we tried. ........................................

Nah. I get it. It's ok though.

 

[Reality]

Impeachment is not going to dramatically effect Trump's approval ratings or the public opinion on him for the worse.

The only thing that could truly hurt Trump is Trump campaign conspiracy with the Russians, which apparently didn't happen, or major financial crimes. Obstruction is not big enough even if you include Presidential abuse of power and him still making money on Trump property when he's not suppose to. He's basically proven himself to be teflon through everything else.

Impeach in the House, fail miserably in the Senate when the Democratic voters and Democrats know it would fail in the Senate, Trump laughs at them nonstop, then Democrats go to Democratic voters and say we tried. ........................................

Nah. I get it. It's ok though.

You have no basis and offer no basis for your first sentence. It is quite literally speculation.

Your conclusion that conspiracy with the Russians "apparently didn't happen" is out of left field. Again, why obstruct if there was no collusion? Perhaps your views on whether or not the Russians conspired with the campaign in the last election (when Trump himself got on TV and asked for the Russians to hack Clinton's email) is why you're so comfortable with the election being a cure all for our current situation.

At the heart of your argument is complacency with this kind of behavior from the president. This is about institutions and what we allow from the president. Preserving rule of law and the constitution is priority 1. Congress has a duty to act regardless of the outcome. Even if the election is won, the damage done to our institutions by not impeaching the president is terrible.

What ground will democrats in Congress have to stand on for resistance if they fail to pursue impeachment and Trump wins a 2nd term?

Again, this is political on some level, but beyond politics on another.

As AOC said, “We shouldn’t be impeaching for a political reason, and we shouldn’t avoid impeachment for a political reason.”

Oh wait, that was master strategist Nancy Pelosi herself who said that before the Mueller report came out

 

[Pressure]

It seems when have cowards I office because we have a good portion of voting constituents who are cowards themselves.

 

[Based Lord Zedd]

At the heart of your argument is complacency with this kind of behavior from the president. This is about institutions and what we allow from the president. Preserving rule of law and the constitution is priority 1. Congress has a duty to act regardless of the outcome. Even if the election is won, the damage done to our institutions by not impeaching the president is terrible.

These guys refuse to acknowledge the cognitive dissonance that comes with saying Trump is teflon + immune to being held accountable...while also being the main ones advocating for not even trying to hold him accountable.

I agree, this 100% about our institutions. It isn't about the Democrats trying to set themselves up for 2020.

 

[Json]

If your argument leads with "it's worth it to see if Senate Republicans will play ball" in 2019, after all that we've seen, I don't know what to tell you. That's a losing argument.

Also, it's not removal or bust. The evidence is damning enough but the American public has had no opportunity to evaluate it. Impeachment allows for democrats to dominate the news cycle with Trump's misgivings. You also need to realize that Trump himself is TERRIBLE when he's off balance. Literally the day after Mueller's press conference he got flustered and conceded that the Russians acted to help him before walking it back the next day. He hates any suggestion of illegitimacy with respect to his presidency, and loses his mind when it's the topic. We need a year and a half of public hearings with it being the topic.

On your point re: no conspiracy with the Russians - what? What exactly was the reason for obstruction then? You can't have the conversation about obstruction without having the conversation about Russian involvement in the election.

Sorry breh, but you don't get it. Stop confusing Republicans for moderates, and stop thinking Trump is good at playing 4D chess. He's not good off balance.

Do you believe Moderates without impeachment hearings would vote for Trump on his record in his first term?

 

[Cynic]

i didnt get impeached is a campaign slogan????...people going to vote for trump because he survived impeachment????...trump really would deserve to win...he should be the clown that leads the circus called america...

He will win again. His cult like status in his base is strong and since he's basically snubbed the GOP. They will have no choice but to fall in line.

I've never seen anything like this.

 

[Based Lord Zedd]

It's not really holding him accountable if the jury (ie. the Republican Senate) is in his pocket from the jump. Trump and his lawyers will be able to go into the trial doing and saying whatever the fukk they want because they know there's 0 chance the Senate will convict.

Which effectively means that any time the President's party also controls the Senate he is above the law and any checks/balances do not matter. This is not how our gov't is supposed to work and is a dangerous precedent to set.
We are lucky Trump isn't worse and/or smarter.

 

[wire28]

Don’t hold people accountable and establish a horrible standard for the future, brehs

 

[NY's #1 Draft Pick]

Democrat's constituents want to impeach on liberal outrage. They should not be listened to. If you have direct evidence of major financial fraud then it's worth it to see if Senate Republicans will play ball. Because that evidence will shift public impeachment opinion much more favorable to Democrats.

It's removal or bust. Impeaching Trump on current evidence (which is no conspiracy with the Russians, potential Obstruction but Mueller wouldn't come out and say it) knowing its going to fail in the Senate will make those same constituents pissed off at Republicans when they knew what would happen anyway. Those same Republicans in the Senate won't face any consequences in the 2020 election either like people think. The 2020 Senate map favors Democrats anyway.

You guys don't get it. Impeachment is not considered a consequence for Trump. He welcomes it based on the current evidence because he knows he can weaponize it. Only removal is is a consequence.

God dammit breh do you forget the dems won the midterms in sweeping numbers! You know how many people want the dems to do their fukking jobs!? It’s not fukking liberal outrage it’s about holding this fekkit accountable. Wtf is wrong with u ?

 

[NY's #1 Draft Pick]

Impeachment is not going to dramatically effect Trump's approval ratings or the public opinion on him for the worse.

The only thing that could truly hurt Trump is Trump campaign conspiracy with the Russians, which apparently didn't happen, or major financial crimes. Obstruction is not big enough even if you include Presidential abuse of power and him still making money on Trump property when he's not suppose to. He's basically proven himself to be teflon through everything else.

Impeach in the House, fail miserably in the Senate when the Democratic voters and Democrats know it would fail in the Senate, Trump laughs at them nonstop, then Democrats go to Democratic voters and say we tried. ........................................

Nah. I get it. It's ok though.

Yea you’re just here to muddy the waters and been concern trolling for mad pages already foh

 

[Hood Critic]

Do you believe Moderates without impeachment hearings would vote for Trump on his record in his first term?

There is zero evidence that "moderates" would rally around Trump if he were to be impeached. It's pure speculation.

 

[Pressure]

Trump won with less votes than Romney lost with.