Classics Discussion: 2Pac & Kanye West

[Inspect Her Deck]

First you say this.

"trying to reach a conclusion as to what defines a classic album. After much discussion, I am running with this definition personally:

Classic: 1. An album considered by consensus of the core hip hop community to be of the highest quality (doesn't have to be perfect or flawless, just an album that the consensus deems the shyt).
2. Assuming that condition 1 is met, is this an album that has stood the test of time amongst the core hip hop community? Is that an album still held in high regard, still referenced at least ten years after its release? By a consensus of the hip hop community?"

Then you say this

"All Eyez on Me doesn't have the quality. Making it a double album hurt it imo in terms of that, so it rules it out for me as a classic album, although it certainly has influence and impact and relevance."


So do you or do you not agree with the criteria you agreed on in the first post,but disagreed with about 5 post later

I do not think the album is of the highest quality, so that means it failed step 1 for me, so step 2 ain't even worth looking at at this point.

 

[JayBaldacci]

there's a bunch of fluffy/glossy shyt on aeom.

 

[BmoreGorilla]

bruh and even when I tell them it isn't....they continue to fight me lol.

also, as I said, I put polls up for people to vote, no point fighting EVERYONE who doesn't agree with your opinion. I respectfully stated my reasons for leaving AEOM out of the classic label for me PERSONALLY, and bam thread went to shyt. As I said, the Jay thread (where you could expect hostility) and the Black Star + Rakim thread everyone was DISCUSSING things in a civilised manner.

But I guess that tells you a lot about the maturity of certain fanbases eh?

Anytime Kanye is involved maturity levels go out the window

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

Anytime Kanye is involved maturity levels go out the window

surprisingly Ye has hardly been mentioned. It's the Pac fans bringing da ruckus (pun intended).

And after all of this, Pac is scheduled to get his 3 classics and Ye none....

 

[BmoreGorilla]

surprisingly Ye has hardly been mentioned. It's the Pac fans bringing da ruckus (pun intended).

And after all of this, Pac is scheduled to get his 3 classics and Ye none....

Its just the fact that Ye is even mentioned at all. That's one divisive ass nikka

 

[Still Benefited]

I do not think the album is of the highest quality, so that means it failed step 1 for me, so step 2 ain't even worth looking at at this point.

Step one is that the CONSENSUS agrees,and the CONSESUS agrees All Eyez on Me is classic even moreso than MATW or 7DT....Your only job here is really to know better,not have a personal opinion on a album that iconic and widley recognized.....The ones that aren't as widely recognized can be up for debate,but AEOM by YOUR criteria cannot.

College Dropout is the only widely considered classic to Kanyes name I would say.

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

Its just the fact that Ye is even mentioned at all. That's one divisive ass nikka

lol now I know the secret to pissing everyone off

Anyway I wish people could discuss these decisions for voting yes/no on albums.

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

Step one is that the CONSENSUS agrees,and the CONSESUS agrees All Eyez on Me is classic even moreso than MATW or 7DT....Your only job here is really to know better,not have a personal opinion on a album that iconic and widley recognized.....The ones that aren't as widely recognized can be up for debate,but AEOM by YOUR criteria cannot.

College Dropout is the only widely considered classic to Kanyes name I would say.

I see what you mean. As I stated in the OP, it wasn't my actual offered definition I chose to ran with it and I should have read the consensus part more carefully. So my bad.

But in reality, I'm going off MY opinion, it's not like I'm universalising this definition for ALL to use, so it doesn't matter. But you were right to call me out on it.

I'm gonna have to edit it anyway.

So back to me. Quality is the first stage and I feel AEOM fails that hurdle because of the filler, which matters to me personally.

Yeah CD I agree with you. But for some reason the polls don't reflect that. I was hoping anti-Ye fans would let their bias aside, but I'm asking for too much.

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

@mobbinfms I think the definition needs a slight tweak. I don't think AEOM is classic and that isn't reflective of the 1st stage of the definition because it deals with consensus.

 

[JayBaldacci]

So graduation, college dropout, late registration aren't classics? You know how influential those albums are?

And AEOM, MATW, and 7DT are classics too. But go ahead and tell us otherwise

AEOM is only considered a classic because of it's sales(there's a lot of fluff/gloss on that album) and 7DT for the whole death mystery(bomb first alone was a hurtin beat, the last verse on hailmary).

most of kanye's shyt is pretty dinky/soft, especially after LR.

 

[CaughtInTWebb]

Both College Dropout and Late Registration are classics......easily.

Also safe to say, you probably shouldn't do two artist to a thread, cause people are instantly going to think it's a comparison thread....

 

[mobbinfms]

@mobbinfms I think the definition needs a slight tweak. I don't think AEOM is classic and that isn't reflective of the 1st stage of the definition because it deals with consensus.

I think consensus is far more important than any one posters opinion. I may not personally think It Takes A Nation is the greatest album ever, but I could never dispute that it's a consensus GOAT contender.
I think reasonable minds can differ on what the consensus is. For AEOM, I voted yes, but it's not as if the album wasn't criticized in real time for filler and content. Some people on here think the album only got burn on the west coast @Wacky D

Ultimately there is still a degree of subjectivity because you are making a call on what the consensus is of the core community. I think that is better than a purely subjective standard.

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

I think consensus is far more important than any one posters opinion. I may not personally think It Takes A Nation is the greatest album ever, but I could never dispute that it's a consensus GOAT contender.
I think reasonable minds can differ on what the consensus is. For AEOM, I voted yes, but it's not as if the album wasn't criticized in real time for filler and content. Some people on here think the album only got burn on the west coast @Wacky D

Ultimately there is still a degree of subjectivity because you are making a call on what the consensus is of the core community. I think that is better than a purely subjective standard.

yeah true, not gonna lie I was thinking personally lol the whole time

but @StillNotSoft read this quoted post ^

 

[mobbinfms]

yeah true, not gonna lie I was thinking personally lol the whole time

but @StillNotSoft read this quoted post ^

Can't get shyt past the breh @StillNotSoft

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

Can't get shyt past the breh @StillNotSoft

can't front on him he called me out for something correctly lol, I never focused on the consensus part when I was deciding upon classics

but you also kinda justified my reasoning for me by saying AEOM wasn't ALL the way there. In fact, same way you feel about It Takes a Nation I feel about Criminal Minded. But that is like TOTALLY consensus. I'm not the first dude to criticise AEOM for filler, and AEOM could only ever be criticised on the account of quality, so for ME, it didn't deserve a classic. You basically helped me to clear my reasoning up haha.