Classics Discussion: 2Pac & Kanye West

[mobbinfms]

Also safe to say, you probably shouldn't do two artist to a thread, cause people are instantly going to think it's a comparison thread....

People who don't read.

 

[mobbinfms]

@mobbinfms

I don't how much bias is present in the voting today tbh, I'm pretty skeptical.

Jay got 2 classics. Rakim could only muster up 2 classics. Now Pac has 3 and Kanye has 0 on current form. Idk what to make of it.

I think the voting has been pretty spot on so far.
I wanted Rakim to get that third classic, but I understand why Let the Rhythm didn't get the nod.
Pac having three classics was a foregone conclusion for me.
I am a little surprised Kanye is nowhere near a classic.

 

[mobbinfms]

Fair enough,but it might be time to have a thread that defines what filler is too....What defines filler to me is "Do I feel it?"....Meaning do I feel the fall off in the album as I'm listening,the fact I've seen some people site Whats ya Phone Number as a reason why Disc 1 aint classic,tells me some people judge filler all wrong in my opinion...People just look at the track list and decide its a song in there that doesn't stand up as great or iconic as the rest,and point to that as filler.

Try to look at it like is,imagine you were hooked up to a EKG machine,and the way you feel when listening to the album will decide whether you live or die....The fact is on a classic you will have iconic songs that bring high peaks.....a not so great song may level it back out,but then its right back to the high peak again....Disc 2 definitely imo has plenty of high peaks....Bad placement can level the album out for too long,which can cause you to feel that flat line coming....but AEOM Disc 1 and 2 I don't see how it has that problem....Theres not a series of songs grouped together on the album at all that level the feel out for long,and definitley nothing to cause you to flat line.

I know its opinion,but where exactly do you have a chance to die listening to All Eyez On Me?

We got albums out here getting classic recognition just for keeping nikkas alive,heart beating healthy consistently,all the way through.

Meanwhile albums that cause a not so normal spike because you got sexually aroused get penalized?So because you got sexually aroused 10 times for example,its the albums job to keep you sexually aroused for all 14 now?Consistency has to be factored in,so if there was only 4 songs outta 14 that gave that incredible high peak,but the reast just kept you level I could see the complaints....But AEOM consistently matches its high peaks again and again for me,even if its not back to back as much as it is on Disc 1.

Is this the world we in,where Disc 2 gotta lose cause disc 1 almost made nikkas hearts explode?

Yep. Filler is relative.

 

[QuavoFlow]

AEOM is a certified classicnot even up for discussion imo

everything else can be debated

 

[mobbinfms]

I agree,you also are making a call on who the core community is and who's opinion matters the most...Which is where impact comes into play....There are regional classics that may not have got play everywhere,but are still considered classics in its region....So whos the consensus?does home base being really the only ones to embrace it give it less credibility as a classic?

Matter of fact let me not get into that,I shouldn't have missed the thread where yall talked about this already,don't wanna derail...To stay on topic,I'm hoping Thug Life aint in the equation only because you are defining it as a group album....Thug Life depending on when you ask,i could see myself picking over 7DT,and definitely 2PN.

It's gotta be the core community. We can't base this off of casual fans. People who just listen to what's on the radio, or whatever is popular in their area.

Thug Life is a 3.5 mic album being generous.

 

[DPG]

which one of those are filler? How does an album that has all that not be considered one of the greatest? Because the hook on Heaven aint hard to find left a bit to be desired? Because Whats Ya Phone Number shouldn't have sampled the Time? Because Thug Passion may have been too generic? Really?.

The sample in "What'z Ya Phone #" is actually pretty creative. It's one of Johnny J's best beats too imo and Pac absolutely shreds it; his flow was impeccable on that track. The three minute sex skit at the end is awkward though and ultimately brings down the song. Being on the same disc as "How Do U Want It" doesn't help either.

@StillNotSoft True. Pac and Bay Area collabs is classic stuff to me, but I guess people from the East can't always appreciate them.

 

[Nomad1]

Graduation definitely lacks quality.

fam the album is flawless

 

[Nomad1]

Kanye West Calls 2Pac “Most Overrated Rapper in History”

that's from a satire site clown

 

[Nomad1]

most of kanye's shyt is pretty dinky/soft, especially after LR.

Kanye's albums are influential. His first 3 are classics.

 

[Still Benefited]

I would disagree with this. I felt always seemed to me that AEOM was the most divisive of Pac'slast three albums.

As it should be,the album is made with pretty much one demographic and one demographic only in mind,the west coast.

Speaking as someone who grew up in CA and was there when AEOM was released. That album was considered a masterpiece by the people pretty much immediately. For pretty much two years straight it seemed that was all you heard coming out of cars. I've never seen an album more beloved by the people. Nothing even comes close. Sales really didn't have anything to do with it.

WIth that in mind,even you agree the album isn't really divisive at all....And we really wanna compare Illmatic and Wutang forever with AEOM as far as "universal" love yall? Those albums are in the same boat as far as albums that preach to they choir....nikkas who love lyrical albums,with great east coast production universally love those albums....their respective choirs love those albums.

Lets not ever play ourselves and think nikkas who could care less about lyrical hiphop,and cats who don't really listen to east coast music like that,are walking around thinking about either one of those albums....Letalong listening and raving about how classic they are....AEOM appealed to its choir and far more....FAR more than either of those two albums.

Neither one had near the national impact of All Eyez on Me,its not even close.....In real time,and beyond AEOM was listened to and judged by people outside of Pacs choir,because you didn't really have a choice...You listened out of either word of mouth,because you were forced to because somebody else had it,or purley based on the controversy....Illmatic and Wutang Forever ack then and to this day were really only going to draw the attention of people who are already buying what Nas and Wu are selling...Pac drawing in people because he's Pac,the man widely known as the greatest of all time,who's classics they've already heard all over radio,constantly referenced by the most popular rappers of the past two generations

I wish I could pass out 10 million copies of Illmatic or Wu Forever to people who are only listening out of curiosity sake.....I bet money the opinions suddenly stop feeling so universal....I can picture now all the nikkas wondering where the 808 at?nikkas complaining about lyrical myrical raps and kung fu talk half way through

Its levels to this shyt,Illmatic and Wu Forever aint there.

Same reason Kanyes albums cant be in the discussion,I really only see Kanye fans gushing over his albums outside of College Dropout,College Dropout is the only one recognized by fans and non fans alike..

 

[Still Benefited]

It's gotta be the core community. We can't base this off of casual fans. People who just listen to what's on the radio, or whatever is popular in their area.

Thug Life is a 3.5 mic album being generous.

I don't think theres any rap fans in rap history who have only listened to the radio,the problem is certain cores just don't respect other cores opinion on what good hiphop is....Theres cores who taste lean east coast,or west coast,or south....Im not talking about people who just started listening to rap when Eminem or Fiddy came out....But just because you don't argue hiphop all day like us,or listen to as much as we do,doesnt mean you cant form a valuable opinion...because you've likely been listening to a lot of hiphop your whole life if your young and black,and have been fans of many many artist,and know what a classic feels and sounds like....I don't think the casuals get it wrong any more than the diehards personally....Most black folks are casuals,which is why I have to come to thecoli to have real discussions for the most part....But the track record shows they know whats classic and whats not....and at least if casuals call something classic on some reactionary shyt,they will forget they said it...Diehards will go to they grave repeating something is classic,and try to force it down peoples throats

Maybe we need to start figuring out which albums got the real love in which regions between the east,west,south,Midwest.....If you wasn't getting undeniable love HEAVY in at least 2 out of 4 regions,that universal talk should go out the window...Some of yalls favorite rappers might get left out in the cold if we did that

I like the system we got now,classics that touch the hiphop community nationally,and regional classics....Not being universal doesn't mean not classic....Maybe a album that's more of a universal classic like Doggystyle should just get more credit,or maybe it shouldn't.

 

[scarlxrd]

CD = LR > Graduation >>>>>>> Rest of that shyt

 

[iseetrolledpeople]

Can't talk about Kanye because I have yet to listen to a full album but I gave 3 to Pac.

MATW, AEOM and 7DT. MATW and 7DT should be cobsidered classics for everyone imo and AEOM only Pac fans call it a classic.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Neither of them have any classics to me. I know that's a contrarian position.

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

Can't talk about Kanye because I have yet to listen to a full album but I gave 3 to Pac.

MATW, AEOM and 7DT. MATW and 7DT should be cobsidered classics for everyone imo and AEOM only Pac fans call it a classic.

Lmao at only Pac fans. So pacs biggest album is only classic too HIS FANS? LMAO